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Old December 20, 2019, 07:03 AM   #1
OhioGuy
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What might be the next innovation in handguns?

Sig and Springfield have now managed to get double-stack capacities into single-stack guns. 2 years ago that was huge news, now I can find a P365 for $499 almost anywhere. I expect that soon(ish) those capacities will be the new norm, at least at that price.

We've had polymer framed guns, we've had "safe action" trigger systems. What will be the next game changer? Or at least, the next game changer that will really sell?

I'm having trouble thinking of what it might be, other than this magical "smart gun" tech that all the politicians are so excited about :roll eyes:

Maybe they'll come with Alexa integration. "Alexa, shoot that bullseye."
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Old December 20, 2019, 07:58 AM   #2
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Whatever leads the consumer into believing his gunfight will go down like a jackie chan fight scene lol. Train hard
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Old December 20, 2019, 10:16 AM   #3
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A CZ P-10C with a “Gadget” (Striker Control Device by Tau Development Group).



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Old December 20, 2019, 10:24 AM   #4
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A handgun with the power of a 500 S&W Magnum with absolutely no recoil, concealable in skinny jeans, and a T shirt, sights that align on target perfectly by themselves, and never has to be practiced with.
Seems that's the requirements of the vast majority of new shooters looking for a carry gun!
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Old December 20, 2019, 10:27 AM   #5
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A piezoelectric trigger mechanism. No movement of the trigger whatsoever. When pressure on the trigger face reaches a predetermined point, the weapon fires.
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Old December 20, 2019, 10:52 AM   #6
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We're probably going to see things move more toward red dot sights on pistols. That seems to be the direction things are going now.

We'll see the market open up and more manufacturers making small red dots and more manufacturers making slides compatibles with said red dots.
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Old December 20, 2019, 11:05 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OhioGuy View Post
Sig and Springfield have now managed to get double-stack capacities into single-stack guns.
I wouldn't call them single stack. But, whatever.

Quote:
2 years ago that was huge news, now I can find a P365 for $499 almost anywhere. I expect that soon(ish) those capacities will be the new norm, at least at that price.

We've had polymer framed guns, we've had "safe action" trigger systems. What will be the next game changer? Or at least, the next game changer that will really sell?

I'm having trouble thinking of what it might be, other than this magical "smart gun" tech that all the politicians are so excited about :roll eyes:

Maybe they'll come with Alexa integration. "Alexa, shoot that bullseye."
Improved sighting systems. We're working on it, but it could be way better.

Lasers and lights currently aren't well integrated with the gun, they're a clumsy bolted on wart. (Excepting some of Crimson Trace's product.) Red dots aren't as instinctive as they should be, they require training and practice to get good.
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Old December 20, 2019, 11:59 AM   #8
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electronic triggers
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Old December 20, 2019, 12:07 PM   #9
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electronic triggers
Tried, and failed in rifles. What would make them successful in handguns?
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Old December 20, 2019, 04:33 PM   #10
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Timothy75
"Whatever leads the consumer into believing his gunfight will go down like a jackie chan fight scene lol."

Lol, I think you just hit the nail on the head. Personally do not think high round count in a small carry gun will change much of anything. A certain few will go for it, buy into it, believe what ever the internet tells them is the truth. But others won't and have not.
What will be then next innovation? Innovation or fad? By the way, Sig fans seem to forgotten the PF9. Or maybe mention of it just gets in the way of the hype.

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Old December 20, 2019, 06:11 PM   #11
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I'm not sure someone needs to read the internet to think that more capacity in the same size might have some advantages. Kinda seems like common sense. I don't doubt the true single stacks will keep selling, especially at the prices these days. But the fact that we've had this conversation this many times and people keep feeling the need to respond suggests to me something is there.

As far as true innovation, if I knew that I'd be peddling it and not posting here. Firearms haven't really had dramatic changes in some time. Browning tilting barrel designs with polymer frames feeding from detachable magazines, usually 9mm cartridges, as far as the eye can see.

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Old December 20, 2019, 08:08 PM   #12
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Thanks Tunnel Rat. Buzz kill. But you are absolutely correct.
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Old December 20, 2019, 08:37 PM   #13
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Phased plasma rifle in the 40 watt range.
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Old December 20, 2019, 09:17 PM   #14
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Perhaps "innovation" is too strong a word for cramming more of the same cartridges into the same basic guns we've had for decades. Maybe "next feature that will become normal in a few years because it will set a new standard."

Higher capacity 1" wide carry guns are here to stay, and I will be surprised if most popular models are not all coming standard with optic cuts pretty soon.

Short of fundamentally changing the way the weapon works, I can't really think of anything that would be considered innovative....
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Old December 20, 2019, 09:52 PM   #15
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If we're talking about the "next" thing and not far future fantasy or even the next disruptive tech that will upset the last 100 years or so of status quo, then I predict it will be firearms that are easier to manipulate for most people.

Most people cannot rack the slide on a striker-fired pistol. Even after being trained in some techniques to do it more easily, most people cannot do it easily at all. When I say "most people," I do not mean most gun people. Most people includes women, elderly, adolescent and teen boys and girls. The fact that it takes substantial grip strength and that a physically violent action is essential to the best technique for basic, fundamental manipulation of the most popular and common pistol type is a major barrier to expanding market size. If we're just talking about the "next thing" that will be sold to the same guy who already bought a Hellcat, a P365, a G43, a Shield, a G19, and on and on, then it will just be more of the same.

It's true that the Shield EZ does attempt to address this issue, but I am not convinced that it does so more than the Glock addressed the shortcomings of the Beretta in 1986. Remember that I didn't claim this thing would disrupt the status quo of the last 100 years. Back in 1986, it wasn't immediately evident to most people what the virtue of that change was. So I don't expect the Shield EZ will be very much more popular than it already is. What I do think is that these and other design features and innovations that make fundamental manipulation easier will be necessary for growth in market size.

The 9mm EZ M2.0 doesn't actually have any innovations that are unprecedented. It features a hammer-fired action, grip safety, single-action trigger, and single-stack magazine. The 1911 has all those things. But the EZ is a package that more people today will find amenable to carrying. Remember that I didn't claim this thing would disrupt the status quo of the last 100 years. One of the possible faults of the EZ is the light, crisp trigger that may be flattering to a novice's marksmanship, but could be a grave liability in a serious incident: https://www.forcescience.org/2004/12...al-discharges/ Would a hammer-fired gun with an easy-to-rack slide but a Kahr-style DAO trigger be better for a large portion of a growing concealed carry market to carry?

What I believe are the "next" things are:

handguns that don't have barriers for most people to manipulate them
handguns that are less likely to help a growing market of carriers to screw up under stress
handguns that will help that increasing population of carriers to make good hits

The key to that third criteria is training (not lighter, shorter trigger pulls), and the key to training in as far as the handgun itself can help is my first point -- not to have ability barriers. Getting more people to train is a much bigger problem, but not one that a handgun design by itself can solve.

I think there are other features that are proven to help people make good hits, such as low-recoil cartridges (that are necessary for the kind of <20 oz guns that people are willing to carry) and better sights or optics. I think those things are already here, and they will continue.
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Old December 21, 2019, 04:08 AM   #16
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Thin double-stacks are in. However, you could squeeze one more round in there if you could figure out double-stack double-feed in a thin pistol.

The Glock 44 features a plastic slide with a steel subframe. Adequate for a rimfire, but too light for a centerfire. What if that plastic were tungsten-infused , Sig TGX-style? You'd need steel in the breachface, sure, but just how much of the slide could be plastic? Hmm.
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Old December 21, 2019, 04:10 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by OhioGuy View Post
....... I'm having trouble thinking of what it might be, other than this magical "smart gun" tech that all the politicians are so excited about.....
The only practical "Smart Gun" would be one that only fires when aimed at a politician.
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Old December 21, 2019, 09:05 AM   #18
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Instead of firing bullets, we will fire rockets. Mini-rockets.

Think about it. You could fire a 50 caliber projectile at .357 mag velocity, with essentially zero recoil. What would that do for your rate of fire? The exhaust might be angled a bit to spin the rocket, creating gyroscopic stability.

It sounds far out, but the technology isn't as extreme as it seems. With the quality graduates produced by the university system these days, I think we have the right stuff to see a prototype in the 2020s.
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Old December 21, 2019, 09:52 AM   #19
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Instead of firing bullets, we will fire rockets. Mini-rockets.

Think about it. You could fire a 50 caliber projectile at .357 mag velocity, with essentially zero recoil. What would that do for your rate of fire? The exhaust might be angled a bit to spin the rocket, creating gyroscopic stability.

It sounds far out, but the technology isn't as extreme as it seems. With the quality graduates produced by the university system these days, I think we have the right stuff to see a prototype in the 2020s.
They tried that with the Gyrojet Pistol in the 60's. It was a massive failure. Ammunition was expensive and unreliable. And it took too much distance for the rounds to build velocity. By the time the projectile got up to speed, the target was too far out of range to assure any type of reliable hits with a handgun. And it was as inaccurate as a lawn dart thrown by a drunk.
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Old December 21, 2019, 11:04 AM   #20
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I'm not sure, but the next generation of small arms will have to cycle reliably in outer space.
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Old December 21, 2019, 11:33 AM   #21
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I'm not sure, but the next generation of small arms will have to cycle reliably in outer space.
That's a clever insight. I nominate revolvers, but I can't think of any reason other actions couldn't be made to work. Current ones might not do so reliably, but they might only require minor adjustments. While the potential for armed-combat in orbit looks imminent, I'm not sure handguns will be the first choice of weapon. Similarly, while the prospect for combat away from orbit seems improbable for some time to come, I can't imagine a Mars expedition would go unarmed. It's not that we'd expect dangerous green men or something, but the more people that go and the longer they're out there, the greater the chance there will be a need for the use of force. Current travel times to Mars on Hohmann Transfer Orbit is about 7 months, but could be as much as 9 months. Then there is the stay and another 9 months or so return trip.

There are handguns on the ISS.
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Old December 21, 2019, 12:07 PM   #22
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They tried that with the Gyrojet Pistol in the 60's. It was a massive failure. Ammunition was expensive and unreliable. And it took too much distance for the rounds to build velocity. By the time the projectile got up to speed, the target was too far out of range to assure any type of reliable hits with a handgun. And it was as inaccurate as a lawn dart thrown by a drunk.
Gyrojet? 1960's? Well I'll be damn... Okay, stay with me. Cartridges that don't have a round cross-section! I'm thinking three sides will be optimal.
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Old December 21, 2019, 01:34 PM   #23
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Gyrojet? 1960's? Well I'll be damn... Okay, stay with me. Cartridges that don't have a round cross-section! I'm thinking three sides will be optimal.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJAXpyt8-oQ
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Old December 21, 2019, 01:47 PM   #24
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Polymer frames and "safe action" trigger systems didn't change anything. The triggers might have made a possible reduction in the number of cops being shot by other cops while playing "Quick Draw" in the locker room. Polymer frames are about weight reduction and nothing else.
"...pressure on the trigger face reaches a predetermined point, the weapon fires..." All triggers do that now. Electric triggers aren't new either. They've been on target firearms for eons.
"...cycle reliably in outer space..." Firearms will do that now. Including the use of smokeless gun powder. Smokeless gun powder creates its own oxygen for the burn. The issue is with the physics that will send the shooter backwards at the same velocity as the projectile goes forward.
"...Most people cannot rack the slide..." Nonsense. And "adolescent and teen" are the same thing. "Lighter, shorter trigger pulls" do not exist in factory firearms. And they will not happen in factory firearms unless the U.S. Courts start throwing our or refusing to hear all the frivolous law suits. There's a class action suit that has been filed, up here, against S&W trying to blame them for the actions of a criminal nut case. Said nut case obtained the pistol illegally from gang bangers. Highly unlikely it'll be heard though. Our Courts really dislike people wasting the Court's time.
"...a plastic slide with a steel subframe..." That's not a plastic slide. It's steel covered with plastic. Just like all Glocks.
"...They tried that..." HK tried caseless ammo too.
There needs to be a totally new energy source that does not create recoil. Not sure if that's possible.
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Old December 21, 2019, 01:52 PM   #25
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Gyrojet? 1960's? Well I'll be damn... Okay, stay with me. Cartridges that don't have a round cross-section! I'm thinking three sides will be optimal.
You're kidding, right? Surely you have heard of the Dardick magazine fed revolver (that, too) and its Tround ammunition.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psrZXa2WeQE

Not to mention the HIVAP open cylinder, Tround firing machine gun. Rotary barrel, dual feed, firing two barrels per cycle. 30,000 rounds/min, the idea being that a jet plane is so fast, you are only going to be on target for a very short time, so you have to put out a lot of bullets to get hits and do damage.

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