Chain Fire

BlackPowderBen · October 20, 2015, 12:50 PM

Well I had my first chainfire today out of my remington 1858. I was using my homemade powder and remington #10 caps, no wad or grease.

maillemaker · October 20, 2015, 01:08 PM

Did your balls shave a ring of lead when seated?

Steve

Doc Hoy · October 20, 2015, 01:27 PM

Did you caps fit nice and tight?

Gavlan · October 20, 2015, 02:43 PM

No permanent damage I hope,
I'm new but may I ask , why no wad or grease ?.
Just curious.

BlackPowderBen · October 20, 2015, 05:27 PM

sometimes my balls shave a ring and sometimes they dont, probally should go a size higher, I'm using .451's. The caps were tight, and I was not using wads because I'm to cheap to buy them

gyvel · October 20, 2015, 05:38 PM

Not pleasant, is it.

44 Dave · October 20, 2015, 07:57 PM

Makes such a mess, doesn't it.

BlackPowderBen · October 20, 2015, 09:06 PM

My gun is alright, I fired a bunch of other rounds through it today and it was fine

Model12Win · October 20, 2015, 09:40 PM

Good to hear it.

I recommend going up to .454 balls, and make sure your caps are tight and fit nicely. Provided this, there is little reason to fear a chain fire. You really don't even need grease over the balls provided they shave a complete ring of lead. The grease does help with powder fouling though, as it makes it softer.

Hellgate · October 20, 2015, 09:44 PM

BP Ben,
Since you are such a cheapskate like me, you can buy F-1 or F-5 felt, a 5/16" hole punch and chuck the punch in a drill press and cut out wads for about 2 cents each. I lube in melted 50/50 lard & beeswax. Or, you could buy pre lubed 45 cal 1/2" shotgun fiber wads from Circle Fly (get 2 bags of 500 and save on shipping) then split them into halves or thirds for about 3 or 4 cents apiece. I agree with you, the Wonder Wads are ridiculously expensive.

You can get either a 2 cavity LEE .454 ball mold for about $20 or a 6 cavity BigLube mold for about $100 and pay for either in one day of casting.

You could use good old crisco (or store brand) as an over ball lube.

I am "thrifty" and use both lube wads, over ball grease, and cast my own .454s from scrounged soft lead.

maillemaker · October 20, 2015, 09:52 PM

I'd bet $10 it was the balls. Hard to get a better fit than a #10 - if anything it might be too tight but unlikely to be too loose. If you are not shaving lead, your balls are too small.

Steve

Doc Hoy · October 21, 2015, 03:08 AM

To Hellgate,

100% correct (IMO). You can get a set of punches that will work for making wads from Horrible Freight for about 12.00. For felt wads for .44 or .45 I think it has a 7/16 that works good. For .36 the 5/16 works.

Also a good source of relatively dense felt is a wool hat from the thrift store. One hat gives you about a billion wads. It has to be 100% wool.

To MM,

(Not that it matters, but) I agree. Model12 said .454 and I agree with that too. I use .451 for almost nothing anymore.

foolzrushn · October 21, 2015, 11:13 AM

You can also 'tune' your wad punch to make the wads slightly larger if needed, by enlarging the inside of the punch with a Dremel tool and stone. Care must be taken to not go too far. Just try fitting a new wad in the cylinder, after each little bit of grinding, until you get that perfect snug fit in the cylinder without the edge curling up. Also try to keep the punch opening round. Felt is pretty forgiving though.

I'm a fan of GeoJohn...powder, dry wad (homemade wool from Durofelt), fingertip of Gatofeo #1 and then the .451 ball. Not messy ( wads or grease) and fowling seems OK. So far no need to change, although I have purchased a box of .454 to try, and I will continue to experiment.

I hope I can aviod a chain-fire, but I make myself expect one each time I fire, just in case.

g.willikers · October 21, 2015, 11:47 AM

I, too, have had a couple of those dreaded chain fires.
No big deal, really, as only the top three chambers went off and only the ball coming out of the barrel had any steam behind it.
The other two easily cleared the frame.
But a good reason not to get sloppy with one of those revolver carbines.

I also use .451 size ball, 'cause that's all that seem to be locally available.
But now I use thick automotive gasket paper for wads, without any lube.
It seems to work just fine and costs very little.

As others have said, make sure the home made wads are not made of polywhatzits " not really felt.".
Wool is very hard to burn, the poly versions smoke and melt.
A test with a small piece would tell.

BlackPowderBen · October 21, 2015, 11:51 AM

do you think I can dremel a socket to shape and make a wad punch out of that? (Or I can go the horrible freight and spend 8 bucks on the punch set)

g.willikers · October 21, 2015, 11:54 AM

Just get the real thing.
Much easier.
Sockets have thick walls, requiring a lot of grinding.
It would probably cost more in worn out dremel wheels than the price of the punches.

wogpotter · October 21, 2015, 12:01 PM

Free wads, yep, FREE! don't cost a single ding-dang-doodle penny.

Get a 1/2" punch from wherever, in a pinch use a .45 fired case with the mouth "sharpened" with a chamfer/deburr tool. Steel cases are good for this & most just leave them at the range.

Now take paper mache egg cartons, all you do is punch out a bunch of holes.
Now put a drop of olive oil on each side of each wad. Let 'em sit a few days to soak evenly. They shouldn't be "wet" with olive oil, just soaked through.

The fibrous paper will soften so it curves to fit the ball & you just sit it over the chamber mouth, sit the RB on it & ram home.

g.willikers · October 21, 2015, 12:12 PM

Well, you made me look in the fridge.
Blegh, the egg cartons are plastic!
No dice.

foolzrushn · October 21, 2015, 01:42 PM

For $8 @ Harbor Fright (Halloween) you can get the #67030 punch set of six. It has 5/16", 7/16" and 1/2" and....hex drive to go in a drill or electric screwdriver! No drill press, or pounding with a hammer, or twisting until your fingers are sore. Put your choice of wad material on a block of pine an make wads.

Hellgate · October 21, 2015, 03:23 PM

I use the 3/8" (.375") for 36 cal wads.

Doc Hoy · October 21, 2015, 04:34 PM

the opening in the shank allows the user to keep on making wads without stopping.The finished wads just start coming out of the opening the same as a punch that is made for wad cutting. I use a drill press and it goes very fast.

wogpotter · October 21, 2015, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Blegh, the egg cartons are plastic!
No dice.

Oh heck no! DO NOT use the foamy plastic, that stuff will melt & glue up like crazy.
They must be the paper mache ones.

I have to confess to an attack of "Plumbum Pedulosa" I use a 1/2" punch for everything because the same wads can be used in my .45 revolver & as an under ball wad or my .50 Hawken.

Gavlan · October 21, 2015, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Free wads, yep, FREE! don't cost a single ding-dang-doodle penny.

Get a 1/2" punch from wherever, in a pinch use a .45 fired case with the mouth "sharpened" with a chamfer/deburr tool. Steel cases are good for this & most just leave them at the range.

Now take paper mache egg cartons, all you do is punch out a bunch of holes.
Now put a drop of olive oil on each side of each wad. Let 'em sit a few days to soak evenly. They shouldn't be "wet" with olive oil, just soaked through.

The fibrous paper will soften so it curves to fit the ball & you just sit it over the chamber mouth, sit the RB on it & ram home .

I'm heading to the fridge then getting my deburring tool and getting after it.

Doc Hoy · October 21, 2015, 05:28 PM

...If the packing forms that sometimes accompany new products.....The stuff that looks like it is made of the same stuff as the old egg cartons is actually the stuff that they make egg cartons out of....

Might be another source.

Did that make sense? =:?(

44 Dave · October 21, 2015, 07:44 PM

I had a few .36 balls and was out of the .38s for my Navy I just flattened enough to fatten them. You must be careful loading them being sure flats are straight.

October 20, 2015, 01:27 PM	#3
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	Did you caps fit nice and tight? __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

October 20, 2015, 05:27 PM	#5
BlackPowderBen Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2015 Posts: 380	sometimes my balls shave a ring and sometimes they dont, probally should go a size higher, I'm using .451's. The caps were tight, and I was not using wads because I'm to cheap to buy them __________________ "If you have to shoot, shoot! Dont talk"

October 20, 2015, 09:06 PM	#8
BlackPowderBen Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2015 Posts: 380	My gun is alright, I fired a bunch of other rounds through it today and it was fine __________________ "If you have to shoot, shoot! Dont talk"

October 21, 2015, 03:08 AM	#12
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	Two responses... To Hellgate, 100% correct (IMO). You can get a set of punches that will work for making wads from Horrible Freight for about 12.00. For felt wads for .44 or .45 I think it has a 7/16 that works good. For .36 the 5/16 works. Also a good source of relatively dense felt is a wool hat from the thrift store. One hat gives you about a billion wads. It has to be 100% wool. To MM, (Not that it matters, but) I agree. Model12 said .454 and I agree with that too. I use .451 for almost nothing anymore. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

October 21, 2015, 11:13 AM	#13
foolzrushn Senior Member Join Date: April 29, 2015 Location: middle of the Santa Fe Trail Posts: 396	ben You can also 'tune' your wad punch to make the wads slightly larger if needed, by enlarging the inside of the punch with a Dremel tool and stone. Care must be taken to not go too far. Just try fitting a new wad in the cylinder, after each little bit of grinding, until you get that perfect snug fit in the cylinder without the edge curling up. Also try to keep the punch opening round. Felt is pretty forgiving though. I'm a fan of GeoJohn...powder, dry wad (homemade wool from Durofelt), fingertip of Gatofeo #1 and then the .451 ball. Not messy ( wads or grease) and fowling seems OK. So far no need to change, although I have purchased a box of .454 to try, and I will continue to experiment. I hope I can aviod a chain-fire, but I make myself expect one each time I fire, just in case. __________________ If you feel that you're pretty important...you should think about your significance to the Universe....and re-evaluate ! certified 'soap welder'

October 20, 2015, 12:50 PM	#1
BlackPowderBen Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2015 Posts: 380	Chain Fire Well I had my first chainfire today out of my remington 1858. I was using my homemade powder and remington #10 caps, no wad or grease. __________________ "If you have to shoot, shoot! Dont talk"

October 20, 2015, 01:08 PM	#2
maillemaker Senior Member Join Date: August 30, 2010 Posts: 1,635	Did your balls shave a ring of lead when seated? Steve

October 20, 2015, 02:43 PM	#4
Gavlan Senior Member Join Date: September 27, 2015 Posts: 108	No permanent damage I hope, I'm new but may I ask , why no wad or grease ?. Just curious.

October 20, 2015, 05:38 PM	#6
gyvel Senior Member Join Date: August 30, 2009 Location: Northern AZ Posts: 7,172	Not pleasant, is it. __________________ As always, YMMV. __________________________________________ MIIAA SIFE

October 20, 2015, 07:57 PM	#7
44 Dave Senior Member Join Date: February 24, 2013 Posts: 584	Makes such a mess, doesn't it.

October 20, 2015, 09:40 PM	#9
Model12Win Junior member Join Date: October 20, 2012 Posts: 5,854	Good to hear it. I recommend going up to .454 balls, and make sure your caps are tight and fit nicely. Provided this, there is little reason to fear a chain fire. You really don't even need grease over the balls provided they shave a complete ring of lead. The grease does help with powder fouling though, as it makes it softer.

October 20, 2015, 09:44 PM	#10
Hellgate Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 2010 Location: Orygun Posts: 869	BP Ben, Since you are such a cheapskate like me, you can buy F-1 or F-5 felt, a 5/16" hole punch and chuck the punch in a drill press and cut out wads for about 2 cents each. I lube in melted 50/50 lard & beeswax. Or, you could buy pre lubed 45 cal 1/2" shotgun fiber wads from Circle Fly (get 2 bags of 500 and save on shipping) then split them into halves or thirds for about 3 or 4 cents apiece. I agree with you, the Wonder Wads are ridiculously expensive. You can get either a 2 cavity LEE .454 ball mold for about $20 or a 6 cavity BigLube mold for about $100 and pay for either in one day of casting. You could use good old crisco (or store brand) as an over ball lube. I am "thrifty" and use both lube wads, over ball grease, and cast my own .454s from scrounged soft lead. __________________ With over 15 perCUSSIN' revolvers, I've been called the Imelda Marcos of cap & ball. SASS#3302 (Life), SASS Regulator, NRA (Life), Dirty Gamey Bastards #129 Wolverton Mtn. Peacekeepers (WA), former Orygun Cowboy (Ranger, Posse from Hell)

October 20, 2015, 09:52 PM	#11
maillemaker Senior Member Join Date: August 30, 2010 Posts: 1,635	I'd bet $10 it was the balls. Hard to get a better fit than a #10 - if anything it might be too tight but unlikely to be too loose. If you are not shaving lead, your balls are too small. Steve

October 21, 2015, 11:47 AM	#14
g.willikers Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 10,442	I, too, have had a couple of those dreaded chain fires. No big deal, really, as only the top three chambers went off and only the ball coming out of the barrel had any steam behind it. The other two easily cleared the frame. But a good reason not to get sloppy with one of those revolver carbines. I also use .451 size ball, 'cause that's all that seem to be locally available. But now I use thick automotive gasket paper for wads, without any lube. It seems to work just fine and costs very little. As others have said, make sure the home made wads are not made of polywhatzits " not really felt.". Wool is very hard to burn, the poly versions smoke and melt. A test with a small piece would tell. __________________ Walt Kelly, alias Pogo, sez: “Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent.”

October 21, 2015, 11:51 AM	#15
BlackPowderBen Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2015 Posts: 380	do you think I can dremel a socket to shape and make a wad punch out of that? (Or I can go the horrible freight and spend 8 bucks on the punch set) __________________ "If you have to shoot, shoot! Dont talk"

October 21, 2015, 11:54 AM	#16
g.willikers Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 10,442	Just get the real thing. Much easier. Sockets have thick walls, requiring a lot of grinding. It would probably cost more in worn out dremel wheels than the price of the punches. __________________ Walt Kelly, alias Pogo, sez: “Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent.”

October 21, 2015, 12:01 PM	#17
wogpotter Senior Member Join Date: September 27, 2004 Posts: 4,811	Free wads, yep, *FREE!* don't cost a single ding-dang-doodle penny. Get a 1/2" punch from wherever, in a pinch use a .45 fired case with the mouth "sharpened" with a chamfer/deburr tool. Steel cases are good for this & most just leave them at the range. Now take paper mache egg cartons, all you do is punch out a bunch of holes. Now put a drop of olive oil on each side of each wad. Let 'em sit a few days to soak evenly. They shouldn't be "wet" with olive oil, just soaked through. The fibrous paper will soften so it curves to fit the ball & you just sit it over the chamber mouth, sit the RB on it & ram home. __________________ Allan Quatermain: “Automatic rifles. Who in God's name has automatic rifles”? Elderly Hunter: “That's dashed unsporting. Probably Belgium.”

October 21, 2015, 12:12 PM	#18
g.willikers Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 10,442	Well, you made me look in the fridge. Blegh, the egg cartons are plastic! No dice. __________________ Walt Kelly, alias Pogo, sez: “Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent.”

October 21, 2015, 01:42 PM	#19
foolzrushn Senior Member Join Date: April 29, 2015 Location: middle of the Santa Fe Trail Posts: 396	ben For $8 @ Harbor Fright (Halloween) you can get the #67030 punch set of six. It has 5/16", 7/16" and 1/2" and....hex drive to go in a drill or electric screwdriver! No drill press, or pounding with a hammer, or twisting until your fingers are sore. Put your choice of wad material on a block of pine an make wads. __________________ If you feel that you're pretty important...you should think about your significance to the Universe....and re-evaluate ! certified 'soap welder'

October 21, 2015, 03:23 PM	#20
Hellgate Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 2010 Location: Orygun Posts: 869	I use the 3/8" (.375") for 36 cal wads. __________________ With over 15 perCUSSIN' revolvers, I've been called the Imelda Marcos of cap & ball. SASS#3302 (Life), SASS Regulator, NRA (Life), Dirty Gamey Bastards #129 Wolverton Mtn. Peacekeepers (WA), former Orygun Cowboy (Ranger, Posse from Hell)

October 21, 2015, 04:34 PM	#21
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	I like these punches for wads because.... the opening in the shank allows the user to keep on making wads without stopping.The finished wads just start coming out of the opening the same as a punch that is made for wad cutting. I use a drill press and it goes very fast. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

October 21, 2015, 05:28 PM	#24
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	I wonder.... ...If the packing forms that sometimes accompany new products.....The stuff that looks like it is made of the same stuff as the old egg cartons is actually the stuff that they make egg cartons out of.... Might be another source. Did that make sense? =:?( __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

October 21, 2015, 07:44 PM	#25
44 Dave Senior Member Join Date: February 24, 2013 Posts: 584	I had a few .36 balls and was out of the .38s for my Navy I just flattened enough to fatten them. You must be careful loading them being sure flats are straight.