"Other" semi's"

[jmr40]

There just aren't any real contenders for decent big game center fire semi's. There was a time when the Remington 740 family of rifles saw some popularity at least in parts of the country. And while the Browning was arguably better, it's cost kept it from seriously competing with the Remington.

But anymore virtually all serious big game hunters turn to bolt guns and there are a lot who still use lever guns for nostalgic reasons. And a group that just enjoy single shot rifles. I see more guys hunting with single shot rifles more often than semi's anymore.

Interestingly semi's are very popular among shotgun hunters. There are some very good and logical reasons why. Quick repeat shots are necessary for most wing shooting, but most big game rifle shooters are more interested in 1 well aimed shot. Fast repeat shots just aren't that important.

Other than military, or military inspired rifles that just leaves 22's. And semi-auto 22's are still quite popular.

[Ignition Override]

44AMP:

Very interesting about the different perspectives influencing German gun or car designs, and those last comments were FUN-ny ! Luckily recent German guns never seem to require very pricey, < Early replacement > parts as were needed in a new Mercedes, owned by our financial advisor.

I would have Loved an HK-91 or FAL, especially an M1-A1, if traditional non-corrosive 7.62x51 (or .308, when allowed) ammo had been a good bit less expensive several years ago.

For a while I read a fair bit about Century's G-3, but combining Century's (contract company's) frequent bolt-grinding issues, and my mental handicaps regarding the Bolt Gap issues, I resolved to drop that notion.

Really might also have enjoyed the (.223/5.56) C-93, if not for Century's alleged uses of worn-out components, or an overall lack of "focus" on quality vs. Profit.

I can barely understand the detailed, color-coded internal graphics of a superb video explaining my VZ-58's receiver's components in operation-----

[44 AMP]

But anymore virtually all serious big game hunters turn to bolt guns and there are a lot who still use lever guns for nostalgic reasons. And a group that just enjoy single shot rifles. I see more guys hunting with single shot rifles more often than semi's anymore.

There are other reasons than just nostalgia, though nostalgia is as good a reason as reasons get, as well. One of the practical reasons is weight. Another is simply ergonomics, and cost factors in a bit here and there, as well.

When you're big game hunting, you don't need to carry extra weight, or at least I don't!

For myself, I see no point in lugging an extra couple pounds of rifle in the deer woods. And, most modern semis derived from military arms are kind of clumsy to carry, with their pistol grips and deep magazine wells, compared to a trim svelte bolt action or single shot sporter. This is one of the places Remington and Winchester, and even Browning got pretty right. Their semi auto sporters are sleek and smooth more like other sporting rifles than the designs evolved from modern military weapons.

I've hunted with my M1A, (and 5 or 10rnd mags), its fine, for a longish heavy rifle. Hunted with an HK 91. Shorter, just as heavy and a bit awkward seeming. Deer hunting isn't combat.

Been there, done that, don't see any point in hunting with an 8-9lb semi auto rifle when a 7lb sporter get the job done just as well, and is easier to hump, and can be had in cartridges more powerful than the military pattern semi autos.

Now, don't get me wrong, I love my M1A, and I've enjoyed many of the other military pattern semis, for what they are, for the joy of shooting, (and YES that IS a valid reason!) I just don't prefer them for hunting deer or other big game. Of course, getting old might have something to do with that, too!

[bamaranger]

I've got no real affection for the AR, 'course I own a carbine version, and they were issue for my agency, but the black rifle never warmed my heart. I'm a hunter foremost, and the .223 falls a bit short in my book as a deer cartridge, and I'm not delving into alternative AR chamberings when I have a selection of sporters. That's me, to each his own.

Sporting semi not mentioned in this thread, the Ruger .44, both old tube feed and the short lived mag fed models. I if you can live with the so-so accuracy and modest range they are handy as a woods rifle for whitetails and I'd guess hogs. Absolute joy to carry or manage from a tree stand.

Also, the Ruger Mini-30 falls into the same pile. The 7.62x39mm cartridge runs on the heels of the old .30wcf and kills whitetails satisfactorily in the woods. I like the cartridge so much I have a bolt rifle so chambered as well. Just like my .44'a, the Mini30 offers only so-so accuracy, perhaps a bit more range and is certainly flatter, but I don't know if that matters any to 100 yds.

The Win 100 is a sleek handsome rifle and I've always had a yearn for one but never bought. Browning offered a carbine/synthetic stocked version of their BAR, a .308 with 20" tube, never saw one in person, but the BAR's I've handled pointed well and felt right. Back when dog hunting deer was more common in AL, and running shots the norm, the BAR was bought by folks that could afford it, and the Rem 740 family was a blue collar option for others. Both are pretty common now on the used racks and dogging deer has faded in my lifetime. As noted, the Rems need TLC, and I've tinkered with several that had pitted chambers and thus poor extraction due to lack of maintenance and care. The case would stick and the bolt/extractor would just tear through the rim.

[dgludwig]

I love the rifle I killed my first Michigan whitetail with, back in 1964; a Winchester Model 100, chambered in .308.

[44 AMP]

My brother got one of those Ruger .44s, the "Deerslayer" (sadly not the mannlicher stocked one).

Neat rifle, deer woods accurate (where 100yd shots were possible but not common) with 240s less so with anything else. Not good for cast bullets, and I found the tube magazine a real pain to load, due to its "release button" system.

Carried like a dream, but did kick a bit. As I recall, FELT recoil was fully the equal of a Winchester .30-30, perhaps even a bit more.

A good idea overall, but a little more thought on certain particulars would have made it a better rifle.

[bamaranger]

I've posted many times that one thing Bill Ruger got "wrong" on the original .44 Carbine was the twist rate. The tube feed models used a 1-38" twist, revolvers in .44 use about half that. Wheel guns in .44 are generally thought to be wonderfully accurate, the .44 Ruger carbine, as well as the Win 94 and Marlin 1894's were all twisted slow and accuracy is so-so. Ruger corrected their mistakes with the new mag fed 99/44 and 96/44 (eliminating the quirky tube system) and twisting the barrels 1-20"s . I should have bought one, but with a pair of the tube models in the safe, that I did not want to part with, I passed on the improved .44. Now they sell for a fortune.

Time has shown that although the receiver and barrels of the tube models are extremely strong, some of the smaller internal action parts are prone to breakage. Sadly Ruger no longer supports the tube model, so don't shoot one to awfully much if you're lucky enough to own one (or two). Additionally, the 96/99 series are gone too.

[HiBC]

I have my Remington Model 81.....300 Savage.

[Skans]

While I like AR's and have several, I also enjoy other semi-autos:

K&M 308 Bullpup,
FN FNC
Polish AK underfolder
Izzy FAL

and others. I like shooting the K&M 308 the best. Next would be one of my AR's with Binary Trigger. Yes, that's fun.

[BudrowBob]

There are a lot of AR-15 posts because it's a popular (if not the most popular) rifle in the US.
I carried one in the army and built myself an A1 clone to replicate what I carried, plus I have a 16" and a 20" flat-top I use for hunting.

I have several other semi-automatics:
Cetme: Bought when they were plentiful and cheap. Luckily, someone had posted a great write-up with a checklist of what to look for when buying a CAI Cetme, I followed his list and got a good rifle. Love the wood stock.

182 series Mini-14 - not particularly accurate, but a fun shooter
M1 Carbine
Ruger 44Mag Carbine (tube fed) - I love this carbine.
Marlin Camp 9

Various .22's:
~'44 J Stevens Springfield 97A
'57 Browning Take Down .22
~86 Iver Johnson US Carbine, Cal. .22
GSG STG-44/22 - picked it up new when the prices dropped, interesting design.

[SR420]

There are about 20 million AR-15 rifles in civilian hands here in the states, plentiful and cheap is popular.

[Reloadron]

My "other" semi automatic rifles discounting the AR 10 and M1A would be:

A Ruger 44 Carbine which I used extensively for hunting in W. VA.
A Remington 7400 chambered in 30-06 and used for hunting.

The Ruger 44 Carbine was my favorite in W. VA. because it was a nice short handy little rifle and worked well for the terrain. There is also a .30 M1 Carbine but never cared for using it as a hunting rifle simply because the Ruger and Remington 7400 suited me better. Likewise the M1 Garand guns I never took hunting.

There is also a plethora of 22 rimfires.

Ron

[Seedy Character]

I would love to find a Ruger carbine. Best bet would be for Ruger to start production. While one does appear for sale, rarely. Everybody loves them and keeps them.

Found an exceptionally clean Rem 742 .30-06, with 2 5 round and 1 10 round mag and about 200 rounds of ammo. I may have to seriously consider this one.

[bamaranger]

Yup, if one of the .44 carbines surface, vintage or more recent, they don't last long on a used gun rack. Ruger claims they could not sell enough of either generation of the carbine to justify continued production, but folks do seem to love'em.

The mag fed 99 series had potential to appear tactical enough to appeal to the folks inclined that way. A higher mag capacity, and a folding stock similar to what the old Mini's were offered with, a rail here and there, of course the mandatory flash hider, and the 99 may have sold much better. I wouldn't have bought one so arranged, but a lot more folks might have.

[jetinteriorguy]

I bet if Ruger had offered their carbine in .357 they would have sold a ton. The lower recoil in an accompanying revolver vs. the heavier recoil of the .44 would have had a lot more appeal to the average shooter. Plus a 180 gr bullet loaded pretty stout would be more than sufficient for hunting deer sized game at reasonable distances. I’m basing my opinion on comparing pricing and availability on a Marlin lever action. The .357 versions sell faster for a lot more money and I’m guessing it’s due to the reasons I’ve explained for a nice little semi auto carbine. I know in my Henry’s, even a stout .357 load has much milder recoil than a stout .41 load, let alone an even heavier recoiling .44.

[Reloadron]

The rifle in the foreground is my Ruger 44 Man Carbine. The rifle itself is a gas operated semi automatic. My first one we in 1966 when I was 16. My mom got it for me and I want to recall the rifle sold for $120. I repaid my parents $30 a month for four months. While in the service I sold it, regretted selling it and eventually replaced it. The rifle was my go to gun when hunting deer in West Virginia. Today I seldom use it but it remains a favorite with me.





Pictured with a Ruger 10/22 and if I understand it correctly it spawned the Ruger 10/22. While the guts differ there is a striking similarity between the two.

Ron

[TRX]

> Anybody have, love the non-ARs?

I'm a big fan of the Avtomat Kalashnikova, and lately have begun to appreciate the qualities of the SKS.

My favorite autoloader at this time is my Remington Model 8. Designed by John Moses Browning, and it's a takedown design I can fit in a short bag or map case. It's a light carbine and loads of fun to shoot. Mine is 108 years old now. "How time flies..."

[Scorch]

I've got ARs, I've got a FAL, and I've had M1As and HK91 and BM59 and Marlin Camp 9s and Browning BARs. Never took to any of them except the ARs, probably because when I went to boot camp the USMC issued me a M16A1. The FAL weighs too much but is super reliable. The M1as never really clicked with me, too heavy and too clunky. The HK would maul my brass then throw it in the bushes 30 feet away, and if 3 MOA isn't good enough for you it wont float your boat. The BM59 was heavy like a Garand and temperamental about where it threw the brass, one forward, one to the right, one to the rear, you could look for 1/2 hour and not have it all. The BAR was a 7mm Rem Mag, and it kicked like a mule. The Camp 9 was cute, but even with a 30 round mag in it it just never excited me. Oh, yeah, got 10/22s and a Winchester 1903, but they don't really count. So, what can I say? I'm a barbarian.

[FairWarning]

Huge fan of:

1. Springfield M-14
2. Browning BAR in '.06 or .270
3. HK91. Or the excellent PTR-91 copy for most people as collector pricing tends to plague all desirable HKs. The recoil can be dramatically improved by installing a heavy recoil buffer, compensator, and HK rubber recoil pad or even an aftermarket stock. And brass slinging/mangling can be improved with a port buffer. These guns are inherently very accurate for a true Main Battle Rifle (especially when married to Trijicon ACOG) and Armageddon reliable. Not to mention cool in a way that only HK can be. Some special DMR or even sniper versions of these were made also. Operating the side charging handle to load the chamber and then rapidly emptying a full mag of 7.62 NATO (especially after the upgrades I mentioned) is one of life's great pleasures.
4. FAL. Probably has a slight advantage overall vs the HK91 in stock form as MBR except for accuracy. Only real drawback to these is that there is no equivalent high level clone for the FAL that is comparable to the PTR-91 vs its predecessor. If there was, I'd already have it.

[44 AMP]

Generally speaking, modern military rifles are not made with the idea of being "reloader friendly" uppermost in consideration. The Garand and M14 type rifle actions are not too bad on the brass. The HK treats it pretty rough.

I had an HK 91 in the 80s. Never really liked it. Only used the issue sights, and found it accurate enough and the trigger, while not match grade was ok. And I was never bothered by the recoil. Its a heavy rifle. Seemed to weigh as much as my M1A but was half a foot shorter.

Wanged fired cases against the back of the ejection port so hard it left a large dent with a sharp crease in the bottom on the body of the fired case, which, for me, made me decide not to reload them. I got one of the ejection port buffers, and that turned the dent into something smaller and shallower, which I could and did reload.

Never had any problems with the flutes on the cases. Never cared for the one way charging handle, or the safety which could not be reached with my size 9 glove hand while maintaining a firing grip. Had to twist my hand around the pistol grip to reach the safety, which meant my trigger finger was out of position for shooting until I twisted my hand back. I believe the design engineers fully intended the safety to be worked with the left hand.

The most irritating thing about MY HK 91 was that I could shoot it faster than it worked, sort of. Using GI (and Euro military surplus) ammo, the rifle was flawless when fired at a rate of about a second per round, or slower. But when I fired at faster, somewhere around half way through the mag it would take a fired case, rotate it 180 degrees and feed it base first into the chamber. And it would do that repeatedly, when ever I tried to shoot fast. Wasn't a one time thing, or an every time thing but it was an "often" thing, and though relatively easy to clear was a pain in the butt when it did happen.

I never bothered to figure out why it happened or fix it, it wasn't all that important to me, just one more of the irritations with the HK that I had. propbably got the only one in history that ever did that, but it DID DO IT!.

[TruthTellers]

As I've spent the last 7+ years researching firearms seeing what was best, I've come to conclude that there's a difference between what is truly best and what is best for each individual. I use to hate the AR, I do not care for .223/5.56 other than it's common, cheap, and doesn't weigh much. 7+ years ago I would have said the AK is a better rifle in every way compared to the AR, but it's not better in every way, but definitely some.

Today I now concede the AR is a good platform for a semi auto simply because of the ease and vast customization capable.

Beyond the AK, I think the SKS is a fine rifle that's frequently crapped on because they came into the US by the crate and were sold for $89 30 years ago and some people can't change with the times thinking any Russian or Chinese made gun is junk and if they once sold for under $100 once they should never have gone up in price.

That said, there are other semi autos that I like that aren't ARs and AKs, I look at a lot of the Kel Tec's and even the SU-16 and its pencil barrel model weighing 4.5 lbs... I don't care if it's a 2 MOA rifle, you buy it because it's a .223 that's as light as a .22 LR.
The RDB, the cheapest bullpup rifle on the market speaks for itself. The Sub-2000, the most innovative PCC currently produced.

The Hi Point carbines are good, the fact they make a 10mm shows they're not afraid to offer something few others do.

I've been saying for years that Ruger needs to come back out with an updated Model 44, but in multiple calibers and a full length tube, possibly dual tube like the KSG. Who wouldn't want a .357 Magnum semi auto rifle that had a capacity of 16 rounds?