"No good answer" hypothetical road block

[JohnKSa]

Several deletions have been made.

It is unacceptable to advocate illegal activity on TFL.

[ghbucky]

Welp, looks like bear spray was put to good use in Portland over the weekend. The video says mace, but that big spray sure makes me think of bear spray.

https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status...13296443658240

[zxcvbob]

Why would anybody go to Portland? The best tactic is just don't be there. The mayor and the DA want Mogadishu, they got Mogadishu. Just let it burn; not your problem. (why the mayor and the DA haven't been arrested for nonfeasance is separate issue)

[ghbucky]

Just let it burn; not your problem.

I agree with you. On the other hand, I do understand why people refuse to be cowed by the violence. There was a very large caravan going through blue cities over the weekend as a show that people aren't intimidated.

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by zxcvbob

Why would anybody go to Portland? The best tactic is just don't be there.

That's fine for most of us, but what are the people who live and work there supposed to do? What happens when the season's blockbuster hit comes to a theater neighborhood near you?

[zxcvbob]

Originally Posted by Aguila Blanca

That's fine for most of us, but what are the people who live and work there supposed to do? What happens when the season's blockbuster hit comes to a theater neighborhood near you?

I know some people live there, or they might have relatives there that need help. But why did that convoy of Trump supporters go there and one of them got shot?

[Sharkbite]

But why did that convoy of Trump supporters go there

PEACEFUL protest...everyone seems to have forgotten that the RIGHT to PEACEFULLY assemble and make your grievances known is GUARANTIED by the Constitution.

The “Mob” attempting to prevent this “freedom of speech and assembly” is the problem.

[Brit]

What part of the location of these riots/looting (Dem States/Citys) is escaping the Dems?
When I lived in Toronto, my Son set himself up in Orlando FL.
When I drove down to visit, straight shot. 401 Hwy to Peace Bridge into Detroit! Windsor Ontario, clean and safe. Detroit, Michigan filthy crime riden, my BHP out of trunk at first Gas Station, fill up, toilet visit, holster up. I75 straight South. Out of Michigan, Hotel sleep till around 6-AM. Set cruise, and cruise, in those days we in the know Canadians had Florida Firearms licenses. Not possible after 911. Never any interaction with Hwy Patrol. Not a trip I would contemplate in this day and age. Been back a few times via plane, Orlando to Buffalo, rental Jeep, drive across the border. We can get to where we are going, on that first tank of gas. Handy we both have US and Canadian passports.
Coming back, cross at the Falls, HOME!

[zoo]

There was a very large caravan going through blue cities over the weekend as a show that people aren't intimidated.

Not "intimidated"? I saw videos of some of the people in those caravans shooting what appeared to be paintballs into the crowds of protestors on the opposite side. Looked to me like they were trying to engage in a little intimidation as well. People on both sides should recognize that engaging in the violence will only serve to exacerbate the hostilities.

[ghbucky]

I saw videos of some of the people in those caravans shooting what appeared to be paintballs into the crowds of protestors on the opposite side.

And, there were also objects being thrown at them, their vehicles were struck, and physical attempts to deny them passage on public roads.

[zoo]

And, there were also objects being thrown at them, their vehicles were struck, and physical attempts to deny them passage on public roads.

You do understand that both sides devolved into trying to intimidate and insult each other, right?

Shooting paintballs into people's faces isn't per se less aggressive than throwing rocks and bottles at one another, wouldn't you agree?

Once upon a time I played a little paintball and I can tell you shooting a person in the face who wasn't wearing face protection was quite an egregious act that could very easily result in criminal prosecution.

What exactly was your point, ghbuckey?

[TunnelRat]

Sounds like there are bad people on both sides.


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[JohnKSa]

This subforum in general, and this thread in specific are about tactics and training. The thread needs to stay focused on that general topic to remain viable.

[raimius]

Going back to tactics...how is this for a priority list?

1. Don't be there.
2. Alter route prior to being boxed in.
3. Don't escalate, if they aren't attacking.
4. Carefully drive out of the situation (move so that people get out of the way/gentle push)
5. Draw but don't aim, if they are aggressive but no weapons visible/not seriously trying to breach the passenger compartment/no incendiary devices visible.
6. Aim/fire or drive over attackers as necessary to stop being shot at, having the passenger compartment breached and getting pulled out, or the vehicle lit on fire with you in it.

[7.62 man]

The easiest way is to avoid the situation completely.
Drive heads up look far past the point you would normally look while you drive.
Avoid choke points. If you see traffic backed up turn off before you get to the stopped traffic. A stopped vehicle is a victim waiting to happen, keep your vehicle moving.
Check your local laws, in many places if a protester steps off the curb into the street they are no longer a protester but become a jay walker. It's an old law but it's still there.

[zoo]

Regardless of where you currently stand on the issues, do not participate in these gatherings/protests for at least the time being.

The full extent of negative economic consequences from the covid 19 pandemic and our nation's reaction to the pandemic, at least in my opinion, has not yet hit us.

Tactically, it would better serve most of us to concentrate on preparing ourselves and our families for the horrific economic consequences soon to befall us.

When it really hits, your enemies might not be who you currently think they are.

Peace and love; we’re going to need some of that.

[Mannlicher]

The threat is real. Conduct yourself accordingly

[Nanuk]

That won't do you much good right now. Your attackers will be portrayed as saints (even if they are actually convicted rapists, drug dealers, and wife-beaters) and you will be cast as a neo-Nazi terrorist and murderer.

Well it seems to me that many caught have had little recourse. I will not comply, I will not be a victim by submitting to the mob. I will defend me and mine. I would rather have my day in court than the morgue.

[JohnKSa]

I don't think anyone is suggesting that people should just allow themselves to be badly beaten or killed. The point is that once you're in the situation, there's no good way out.

Yes, the threat is real.

Yes, it's a "no good answer" situation.

However, especially compared to many other "no-win" situations, avoiding mobs/protests/riots is quite easy. They don't happen at totally random times--they are quite predictable as to time. They don't happen at totally random places--they are quite predictable as to the places they occur. They aren't stealthy or hard to detect--the whole point of them is to make a lot of noise and cause a lot of disturbance so it's not especially likely that they will take a reasonably alert person by suprise. They get a lot of news coverage which allows people to determine patterns, and even to get near-real-time updates to help with avoidance.

Once it becomes obvious that a given scenario is a no-win, it's time to start focusing on avoidance.

[Nanuk]

That is great John. I however work at THE place locally that has the protests.

[Mainah]

I use Waze for directions and hazard reporting. It does a decent job of reporting road hazards and speed traps. Has anyone had any experience with driving apps and social unrest?

[HiBC]

Some solutions come to mind that "feel" like justice,but they probably would not work out.

That is great John. I however work at THE place locally that has the protests.

Its a BS red herring to cover criminal assault,vandalism,arson,etc with "Peaceful Protestors"

Yes,Peaceful Protestors are fine,and Constitutionally protected.

But someone in the act of setting a fire to an occupied building or stomping someone's head is putting another Human Being's Constitutional Right to Life on the block. Thats not a Peaceful Protestor and its BS to label them as such.

Some behavior crosses the line, and IMO, (Which carries NO legal authority) it would be OK if your employer hired Blackwater to post rooftop overwatch.

Anybody lighting up a Molotov cocktail coctail should be subject to having their head explode. After a few of those..it would no longer be good sporting fun to toss Molotovs.....And FWIW,I recently saw video where an alleged "peaceful protestor" was carrying a Corona Beer case full of Molotov Cocktails for his fellow "Peaceful Protestors"
What happened to the idea that construction or possession of a Molotov Cocktail is a felony destructive device? Wouldn't that be a Federal BATF prosecution? The local Soros installed Prosecutor would have no say. Why no arrests/prosecutions?
Five or ten years behind bars might be good.

Thats (IMO) how to deal with this.

Is it legally possible that the people who live and work in these riot zones (and their insurance companies)would have standing in a class action suit against those who make the decisions to not hold violent or destructive "Peaceful Protestors" accountable?

Insurance companies have lawyers and resources to bring civil action . If it can be done to the Boy Scouts,it can be done to ANTIFA and BLM,or a Governor,Mayor,or City Council.

What will keep the protests peaceful is harsh ,relentless accountability.

Start NOW (Parents,its 10 PM. Where are your children?)

[JohnKSa]

That is great John. I however work at THE place locally that has the protests.

Wow, that's ugly...

Normally I'm not a big fan of the people who tell others to "get another job" or "move to a different area", but in this case, it might be warranted.

If those aren't options, can you at least arrange your schedule so you're out of the area before dark when things tend to get more "exciting"?

[shurshot]

Life is FAR too precious and short to spend it living and or working under dangerous / stressful circumstances if there are other options available. Perhaps it's time to reevaluate what is important.

[Nanuk]

Normally I'm not a big fan of the people who tell others to "get another job" or "move to a different area", but in this case, it might be warranted.

If those aren't options, can you at least arrange your schedule so you're out of the area before dark when things tend to get more "exciting"?

I work a well paying federal contract. In this region you will not find many better paying jobs. Adjusting my schedule is not an option. The nice thing is that by the time it gets dark in this part of the country in Nov. people are not gonna be hanging out outside much.

EDIT: Besides, I refuse to let these clowns run my life.