Pentagon Confirms Move to 6.8mm

[Bartholomew Roberts]

SIG is offering their version of 6.8 to the public as .277 Fury.
https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...69#post6764169

[Ben Dover]

Does anyone seriously think that a 6.8 bullet is magic, and it will penetrate level 4 armor that a 7.62X51 armor piercing bullet will not penetrate.

This whole thing is a joke.

[agtman]

To hear the 6.5 guys talk, those cartridges have made the 6.8 superfluous to the point of obsolescence.

[stagpanther]

I love the idea of a $20 unreloadable case.

[bacardisteve]

Operating at 80kpsi has got to burn out barells faster than a 6.5-300wby. In a belt fed weapon id imagine you would have to change barells every time you loaded another belt.

[ed308]

I read in one of these articles where the barrel is treated with something or had something done to it to reduce wear. Also read some comments to an article where someone has fired the beltfeed and semi and recoil is reduced to the M4 and an AR10. If all of this is true, pretty impressive and a game changer.

[Bartholomew Roberts]

According to a GunsAmerica interview with SIG, the case will be reloadable. However, the case, primer, and powder are all proprietary and only available from SIG... so....

SIG claims to have some magic combo of barrel coating and proprietary powder that addresses barrel life issues; but they haven’t yet given any hard numbers. Something like a stellite lining would extend barrel life; but I doubt it would be cost-effective.

[JohnKSa]

I'm tired of deleting driveby posts from this thread.

https://thefiringline.com/forums/faq...aq_forum_rules

If you have something of substance to offer, please do so. If your idea of participation is a one liner devoid of substance and intelligent content (i.e. a driveby post) then save your time and mine by keeping it to yourself.

[stagpanther]

Of the three major competitors, Sig's appears to be the closest to what we are accustomed to as conventional bottleneck case designs. The others I've seen are not and I have huge doubts they are designed to be reloaded (never heard of reloading being part of a military contract spec). Sig, in general, is a very smart outfit when it come to designing things IMO. I just can't afford them : ) They have a new design higher pressure cartridge, and ready-to-go ammo and new light-weight rifle that looks like it's designed to cover both bench and hunting bases.

Smart, very smart IMO.

[Jim Watson]

According to a GunsAmerica interview with SIG, the case will be reloadable. However, the case, primer, and powder are all proprietary and only available from SIG... so....

Stated to have standard head diameter, so there will be nothing stopping you from forming cases out of common brass. One hopes that there will be 60000 psi load data for it.

[Bartholomew Roberts]

More updates on the candidate rifles from AUSA back in Fall: https://taskandpurpose.com/army-next...-weapon-photos

One interesting tidbit, apparently the True Velocity entry relies on barrel length rather than fancy powder to achieve its velocity. That explains the bullpup configuration to meet Army requirements.

Also, selecting a winner is now planned for Q1 2022 with actual fielding to first units around Q1 2023. That means SIG’s 6.8x51 entry will hit the civilian market three years before it gets fielded to the Army (if they end up being the winner and introduce the .277 Fury as planned).

[Double Naught Spy]

So 2021 fielding to 2023 fielding. Pushbacks and changes yet to come.

[davidsog]

So 2021 fielding to 2023 fielding. Pushbacks and changes yet to come.

Nope.

The program is still on track but you now have confirmation that the US Army WILL be replacing 5.56mm sooner rather than later.

From post 175:

https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...&postcount=175

The timeline is tight, by weapons development standards, as the Army expects the companies to have a mature weapon, possibly ready for fielding, in just over two years, or late 2021, Lt. Col. Jason Bohannon, head of PEO Soldier, Crew Served Weapons, told Military Times in January.

https://www.armytimes.com/news/your-...iers-shooting/

The program is still on its original track with the goal of having a mature weapon ready for fielding by late 2021.

They expect that prototype will be ADOPTED in early 2022 and fielded by 2023. The original timeline has not changed.

[davidsog]

The earliest award date was Textron in December 2017:

The Small Arms Ammunition Configuration (SAAC) study, completed in 2017, identified potential weapon system approaches that can address the operational needs. To investigate potential technologies that support these approaches, the U.S. Army Contracting Command – New Jersey (ACC-NJ) on behalf of U.S. Army Armament Research, Development and Engineering Center (ARDEC), awarded on 05 December 2017 a competitive Department of Defense Ordnance Technology Consortium (DOTC) Initiative 17-01 INIT 1407 to AAI Corporation doing business as Textron Systems Unmanned Systems through agreement W15QKN-14-9-1001 under Section 815 Prototype OTA authority, pursuant to 10 U.S.C. § 2371b. This DOTC initiative is for the development and fabrication of advanced lightweight small caliber cartridge prototype ammunition and the development and fabrication of a functional prototype weapon system capable of firing this ammunition. In addition, ACC-NJ on behalf of Project Manager Soldier Weapons (PM SW), issued a competitive PON under Section 815 OTA authority, pursuant to 10 U.S.C. § 2371b, and awarded on 25 June 2018 six fixed amount, prototype OTAs to the following:

file:///C:/Users/Owner/Downloads/DRAFT_NGSW_PON.pdf

Going by the very first award data they have until May 2020 to adopt one of the prototypes before they are pushing back the original timeline. The intention is to finish the work as quickly as possible.

They are actually slightly ahead of their intended schedule which goes to show the resolve to replace anemic 5.56mm for our warfighters. Surprising that a Government program would be ahead of schedule.

[Bartholomew Roberts]

Going by the very first award data they have until May 2020 to adopt one of the prototypes before they are pushing back the original timeline.

Well, then... I guess we’ll know soon enough who is right and wrong on the Army’s ability to implement planned timelines.

[davidsog]

Well, then... I guess we’ll know soon enough who is right and wrong on the Army’s ability to implement planned timelines.

The timeline is posted. They have the prototypes #1 and #2 from the previous DOTC and RON.

2nd Quarter of the second year of the program would be June 2019....

It is kind of obvious...just saying.

[2damnold4this]

It looks like the Army is buying 38 prototype rifles and 28 prototype automatic rifles from three different companies this year and plans to pick a winner in late 2021. link It also looks like the Army is planning on the bulk of its soldiers keeping the M4 and M249.

[Sharkbite]

Holy COW!!! The article says 36M for the first 4000 optics. Somebody check my math, thats $9,000 per scope!!!

Thats not a lot in SF terms, but to give to an avg Joe...thats huge.

[Bartholomew Roberts]

The Marines have signed on to replacing the M27s they just bought with NGSW apparently. Although, they aren’t hypothetically fielding until 2025.
https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/...dopt-the-ngsw/

[joed]

Originally Posted by ed308

The Creedmoor was never a consideration for a general use AR 15 size rifle.
The 6.5 Grendel was, and with currently available options is the one I'd have chosen. Even then I'm not sure it nor 6.8 SPC offers enough of an advantage over 5.56 to be worth the effort and expense.

The 6.5 CM is a longer cartridge and couldn't possibly be made to work for what the military wanted. But as a semi-auto sniper round on the AR10 platform is already in use by some special forces units.

It's not the 6.8 SPC. The 6.8, 6.5 Grendel and other similar cartridges were tested and eliminated early on in the process. The 6.5 Creedmoor was also tested and considered along with several new cartridges such as .264 USA, .270 USA, 7x46 UICC. Whatever their reasons, they ultimately selected the 6.8 bullet. Not much is know about the cartridge. But will likely be more powerful than the 6.8 SPC and similar in size or power of the Creedmoor in order to defeat body armor found on the today's battlefields.

I was told that one of the generals actually spit on the 6.5 CM.

[Bartholomew Roberts]

Interview with the project management directors for NGSW:
https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/...-us-army-ngsw/

Project still on schedule despite coronavirus. Two new advanced fire control units (fancy optics) from Vortex and L3 competing along with the rifles now.

[Ignition Override]

44AMP:

In a book you might be familiar with, "The Gun" by CH Chivers, didn't the (former USMC infantry Captain) author state that a primary decision about switching to the initial Armalite/M-16 was decided on the patio of an Air Force General...

..... during a casual BBQ?

You also seemed to state that normal channels of design and testing were bypassed in several ways.

Author CH Chivers described an Army (or Air Force) comparison between 5.56 and 7.62x39 cartridges using Human Heads as targets , and that the Pentagon read the results and locked away the results in a secure drawer or safe?
This last comment was for entertainment value, only.

[Bartholomew Roberts]

Video of some Youtubers getting hands on with the Textron candidate:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xQigh3BEnpU

[Bartholomew Roberts]

Holy COW!!! The article says 36M for the first 4000 optics. Somebody check my math, thats $9,000 per scope!!!

Late reply; but its a good clue they’re expecting more out of the optic than a 1-10x variable with a matching reticle.

[stagpanther]

I thought 9 grand was the going rate for a toilet seat?