P320 Voluntary Upgrade

[Kwik2010]

I was curious about anyone's prior experience with Sig Sauer's customer service. I purchased a P320 used from a friend of mine a few weeks ago. I then heard about all the drop safety issues coming to light. I know I'm not covered under Sig's warranty due to the firearm being used but does anyone think they'll include mine under this voluntary upgrade? Just curious if anyone has ever dealt with a situation like this before. I plan to call and ask them once they release the details on Monday but was hoping someone could tell me if I'd be wasting my breath.

[Screwball]

If it is a design fix, shouldn't matter if you bought it used or new... design needs the update. If you buy a used car that is part of a recall, the manufacturer doesn't say you have to pay because you didn't buy it new.

[cslinger]

I have a suspicion they will be happy to "upgrade" your gun.

The fact is, and I am not saying they didn't industry test, but the fact is the gun has proven to have a repeatable unintentional discharge when dropped a certain way. I imagine they want every last one of them back for fear of lawsuits.

Now if it was hey we shipped a bunch of guns with bad extractors or crappy mag springs or lose sights or some such the story might be different. This however I would be shocked if they didn't want to "upgrade" your gun.

[Model12Win]

Minor snag in the road of the greatest combat battle platform weapons system platform pistol in human history, SOOOOO much better than the M9!!!

[Kwik2010]

Alright. That puts my fears more at ease. Appreciate the replies.

[Auriemma]

Look for it Monday morning on Sig's website.

[TunnelRat]

You won't know anything until the details are posted Monday.

[Joe_Pike]

Do you think ol' Gaston is sitting there with a smirk on his face.

[TunnelRat]

Gaston has an incredible amount money and a rather unfortunate family situation. I honestly don't know if he cares.


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[Gats Italian]

M9A3 is looking better and better.

[disseminator]

I have read the XM17 already has the "upgrade" and that the factory is going to exchange the old fire control groups for the newer design. Or it could simply be an extra trigger safety.

Time will tell.

[Kwik2010]

So seeing as how I've never had to ship a firearm anywhere, does anyone have any advice on it? I live in MT and I'm not sure how to send it. The last time I spoke to anyone about it I was told I could ship it directly to them it they sould have to ship it back to am FFL dealer. Is that how it works? Or can it be shipped directly to my house?

[TunnelRat]

Originally Posted by Kwik2010

So seeing as how I've never had to ship a firearm anywhere, does anyone have any advice on it? I live in MT and I'm not sure how to send it. The last time I spoke to anyone about it I was told I could ship it directly to them it they sould have to ship it back to am FFL dealer. Is that how it works? Or can it be shipped directly to my house?

SIG should give you directions. From what I read they should send you a prepaid label. You then either drop off or arrange a pickup of the pistol, without mags or other accessories, to the carrier SIG uses. Since it is a repair SIG can ship it directly back to you.


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[Brownstone322]

Under Federal Law, firearms shipped to and from a manufacturer for service do not require an FFL. I haven't seen SIG's official statement yet, so I don't know exactly how shipping is getting paid for, but I once had to send a 1911 back to Colt for a new ejector, and it went like this:

1. Colt sent me a "return authorization" and a shipping label.

2. I put the gun in its original case.

3. I took the case and shipping label to FedEx and told them what it was. (You're required to declare a firearm as such, apparently; FedEx may require you to actually place it in a shipping container.)

4. FedEx shipped it out to Colt.

5. Later (quite a while later), Colt shipped it directly back to me.

[Tom-R2]

We sent in my wife's P320 serial number this morning through their website. They will send an email when they are ready for it including a shipping label and instructions. I've shipped one revolver many years ago without any issues out or back. I'm not concerned about it. With today's technology, you should be able to track it.

[Kwik2010]

Thank you all for the input. I got mine registered on Monday but I could couldn't get the final page to show up that says "no further action required" that everyone else I know was getting. So I registered it again last night to make sure it was registered in since I couldn't get through to customer service. Went through without a hitch this time. Hopefully I'm fairly early in the queue. If not oh well. Just have to break out the old 30sf and carry that awhile.

[qwiksdraw]

Wouldn't this mean that any gun not tested under the same scientific protocol should be considered unsafe? Or should we have different standards for different manufacturers?

What we have learned from this is that every firearm should be drop tested at every possible angle just to be sure they are 100% safe. Of course, that would require that the gun would be subject to 46,656,000 drops at every possible angle. That does not include half degrees and changing the height of drop for each angle.

Being a reasonable guy, I would be happy if they just did half as many drops so I can feel safe.

[TunnelRat]

Omaha Outdoors did a follow up test with both Glocks and M&Ps. They had no such issue.

While I get the point about exhaustive testing, I don't think that's what needs to happen here. The current test involves no angled drop. Adding even a test at say just 30 degrees is already 100% improvement on that test. Moreso it's not that when dropped at 30 degrees the P320 measures the angle and then decides, "Oh dang, 30 degrees, I have to fire!" The reason 30 degrees is the issue here is it allows the slide of the P320 to be the part of the pistol initially impacting the ground rather than the beavertail, as happens in the perfectly vertical drop. Adding a test component that checks if the pistol discharges when the slide is the point of initial contact with the ground (with the butt oriented downward) doesn't seem too hard.

[Sawyer.N]

I had to send in a sig p938 to sig. The turn around time was about 3 weeks. the fix was free, even though it was a case of user error that caused the problem. they were very clear and direct and gave me easy to follow shipping instructions. I like em.

[Independent George]

You don't need to test every angle. If you are trying to induce the trigger pulling from inertia, you need the most vertical angle possible where the slide strikes the ground directly. Trying to prescribe specific angles for testing is why it passed in the first place - every gun will have a different critical angle to test depending on the shape of the grip and beavertail.

Or, alternately, you can ingore the angled drops, and do it at 90 degrees but have a protruding object strike the back of the slide directly.

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[qwiksdraw]

Independent George: You don't need to test every angle. If you are trying to induce the trigger pulling from inertia, you need the most vertical angle possible where the slide strikes the ground directly....

Given that criteria, the P320 passed all the current tests (and there were many) and by all standards, the P320 is just as safe any other gun on the market....on paper. The only way to be sure a gun is 100% safe to test every possible angle, which is not feasible. So the problem is with the testing standards and maybe more than one drop angle should be tested, but the question is how many? If the standards are updated to include multiple drop angles, then every gun currently in production can not be considered safe until passing the new testing standard.

If so folks, plan on spending more for your guns. Not saying that's a bad thing either.

[TunnelRat]

If so folks, plan on spending more for your guns.

I'd challenge you to show evidence to back up that claim.

[Independent George]

Originally Posted by qwiksdraw

Given that criteria, the P320 passed all the current tests (and there were many) and by all standards, the P320 is just as safe any other gun on the market....on paper. The only way to be sure a gun is 100% safe to test every possible angle, which is not feasible. So the problem is with the testing standards and maybe more than one drop angle should be tested, but the question is how many? If the standards are updated to include multiple drop angles, then every gun currently in production can not be considered safe until passing the new testing standard.

If so folks, plan on spending more for your guns. Not saying that's a bad thing either.

I'm don't follow your reasoning here - I detailed two simple ways to test the whether the trigger can be pulled by the inertia without testing it from every conceivable angle. That explicitly limits the number of angles required to test its drop safety - how did you jump from that to having to 'test every possible angle'?

Mechanically, there there three different things you are really testing for in a drop test:

1. Whether the firing pin can break free of the FPB (if present) from impact, or ignite a primer through inertia (if no FPB is present)
2. Whether the sear can release the FP through impact
3. Whether the trigger can be pulled through impact.

This does not require an infinite number of iterations.

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[bricz75]

Originally Posted by Model12Win

Minor snag in the road of the greatest combat battle platform weapons system platform pistol in human history, SOOOOO much better than the M9!!!

IIRC, the trigger doesn't have the safety like the Glock. As such, the trigger is heavier than a Glock. Gun Tests magazine tested it. The trigger is on the heavy side. Can us civilians get one with an external safety, a la 1911? If so, and a person is used to that manual of arms, I guess the trigger can be modded to be lighter.

Better than the M9 when the M9 is in single action mode?

[qwiksdraw]

TunnelRat I'd challenge you to show evidence to back up that claim.

Just a speculation, that's all. Usually, when development and production costs go up the price goes up.