Arisaka type 99 mum question.

[snowman748]

Ok, I recently picked up a Arisaka Type 99 from a guy local. It's had the mum removed, missing the monopod, aircraft wings, and sling plus the stock is a bit beat up. Which is fine, I plan to buy a chamber insert that would allow me to use it like a single shot 7.62x39.

My question is, since the mum has been removed and honestly wasn't done great. Can I grid or file it a little more to make it more uniform looking and easier on the eyes without worry of people losing it over "collectors value". Mine seems to be a shooter grade anyway.

[lefteye]

I am certainly no expert on this matter, but I believe that is the worst destruction of the mum I have ever seen. Many years ago I inherited 4 or 5 Arisaka rifles. One was in very good condition and one had the forend of the stock shortened. Three others were Arisaka actions with Douglas barrels and modern (in the 50's) American sporter wood stocks. The mums on all of them were slightly ground or filed and I believe that was a requirement to bring the rifles into the US. Values VARY a lot. Check Gunbroker.com for examples.

[Gunplummer]

Won't matter. Only the oddball Arisakas are going up in value anyway.

[emcon5]

Yeah, that is pretty bad. I am generally of the "Leave old military rifles alone" mindset, but even I would probably try and clean that up a bit.

[44 AMP]

Ground, filed, stippled, mums are the common state. I've even seen a couple where there was just a single slash across the mum.

It was considered dishonorable to surrender a rifle (or anything, really) that had the Emperor's symbol on it, intact.

There are many, widely different stories about why, where, and how the mums were ground.

Done by Japanese under Japanese direction at the end of the war
Done by Japanese under American direction
Done by Americans under Japanese direction
Done by Americans under American direction

Was Done at MacArthur's orders, to avoid further loss of face for the Japanese
was done under the orders of some pencil neck butter bar who just wanted to give his troops something to do

Done in Japan
Done in the US at the docks
Done some places and not others

I have no idea what the real truth is. Only that rifles with unground Mums are assumed to be battlefield pick ups, and came into the states either through a port that didn't require mum grinding, or were smuggled through one that did...

Currently, from a collector standpoint, an unground mum rifle is worth more than a ground one. Not sure how much. Once ground, there seems to be no value differentiation between a smooth looking job and a "hack job" to collectors.

The dust cover for the action was (almost universally) the first thing to go. Supposedly the Japanese troops themselves threw them away, because they rattled. Again, the actual truth can only come from those who were there, and did it, and those guys are about all gone, so we'll never know for certain.

The dust cover, monopod, and the AA sight wings were dropped during production at various stages of the war. They might be "missing" from your rifle, or they might never have been installed, depending on when & where it was made.

[doofus47]

Wow, someone really didn't like that mum...

I'd clean it up and not sweat it. That's the beauty of "shooter grade."

I"m less sure of the chamber insert idea. I've never heard of an insert for an Arisaka.

[Blindstitch]

Drill and tap for a scope and you'll never have to see that again.

[ronl]

Don't think cleaning it up would hurt at all. I had 4 Arisaka rifles when I collected WW2 items, and only one had the mum intact. It was a vet bring back that was only lacking the monopod, and was in pretty good shape. They really have little collector value, and you said yours was going to be shot, so I'd do whatever you wanted to it.

[Recoil spring]

I used to collect them back in the 1980's, interesting guns, and they went for $50.00 to $75.00 apiece in shops and the gun shows. A good book on them for collectors was written by a fellow named Fred L. Honeycutt, lots of variants and pictures. I only had 2 that had the mum still on the gun, pretty rare to find them that way. I hand loaded for both the 7.7 and the 6.5. To this day I think the long barreled version in 6.5 (type 38) is a fun shooter.

I used reduced loads in my 7.7, tried the military loads from WW 2 and it kicked way more.

As the appearance of the grounded off mum bothers you, I would do a little grinding up and cleaning of it. Can't hurt the value at this point.

[snowman748]

Thanks for the input guys. There is an Alaskan company that makes chamber inserts for 7.7 Jap to 7.62x39 but it's a special order type thing and he quoted me $38 and LONG lead time. That being said it would be nice to be able to shoot it for less the $1-$2 a round. Plus 7.7 Jap seems to come and go as far as stocking it goes.

I've heard of Americans reaming the chamber to 30-06 and the Chinese converting them to 7.62x39. However I don't think using this gun for that would be a good idea. The stock is a little beat up and the mum is gone BUT it's still in the military configuration. That's gotta be worth more then one that's been sporterized. Right? I'll probably try and get my hands on a dust cover and maybe a monopod. The anti aircraft sights seem to be impossible to find and I've heard they're really fragile.

[tahunua001]

be warned those chamber inserts can be a royal pain, the round fire forms into the adapter so you really need something stiff to pound it out with. I got a couple adapters for x54R and 303 brit to shoot tokarev out of. about 50 rounds and 3 improvised casing extractor systems later I just threw the adapters away.

[Blindstitch]

I swore off getting a 7.7 because I didn't want to reload another hard to find cartridge. I know where I can get a decent shooter today for only $100.

But I already reload for the 6.5 and bought a second rifle to give me a reason to buy more reloading supplies for it. Now if I could buy a type 99 in 7.62x39 for a realistic price I might jump on it.

Good luck with your chamber insert. I bought one for 30-30 to 32acp I think and between finding that ammo and the cost I now reload for that to since its cheaper.

[44 AMP]

The stock is a little beat up and the mum is gone BUT it's still in the military configuration. That's gotta be worth more then one that's been sporterized. Right?

Do you think your rifle would be worth more than this??



Which, by the way is a .308 Win, a common easily available and not terribly expensive caliber.

An intact Arisaka, in good condition is worth something to a military collector. The same rifle, restored and refinished to like new condition is worth LESS to the same collector.

Collectors are funny folks (I know, being a bit of one, myself). If you have what they are interested in, they will pay to get it. IF its not exactly what they are looking for, they generally aren't interested at all.

A well done sporter has actual utility beyond the action its based on, to a much broader spectrum of potential purchasers.

Unfortunately, time (and nostalgia) and the milsurp "bug" have created a situation exactly the opposite of what went on when the rifles were first sold. Today, lots of people think that they aren't worth anything, UNLESS in original GI condition. So the market for even high end sporter conversions sucks if you're selling, a sporter, and sucks if you're buying a GI condition gun.

When first sold, it was exactly the opposite. Sporters were worth money and the GI guns were dirt cheap.

[snowman748]

I feel you on that one 44 AMP. I have a 1903A3 Sporter I absolutely love that was professional sporterized by a place out of California in the 60s-70s. Original barrel and action. Anytime I try to post about it or talk about it I get the "it's just a Sporter" remarks.

I originally got this Arisaka to have to barrel set back and mod the magazine to shoot 7.62x39. However after getting it I noticed it's an all matching number gun. Sure the stock is beat up and the mum is gone but with it being all matching I figure the value might possibly go up.

Plus idk if I have enough barrel coming out action to set it back far enough to go from 7.7 Jap to 7.62x39.

EDIT: I picked up the Arisaka to convert to 7.62x39 because I was under the impression that the Chinese converted them from 7.7 Jap to 7.62x39. That is true BUT they removed the Arisaka barrel and installed an SKS barrel to the Arisaka action. They didn't set the barrel back like I thought.

[44 AMP]

Well, I know it can be done, and using an Arisaka action means you don't "sacrifice" something else, perhaps something actually worth money ...

but considering the size and length differences I would choose a different action to build a 7.62x39 if I could, and if it was something that interested me (its not).

I've sporterized Mausers, Springfields, Krags, and Arisakas over the years, beginning back in the days when it was actually cost effective to do so. Today, (and for a while now) its not. Building something like the Arisaka in the pic today is a labor of love, done as a project, a hobby, to practice, because you want to. You won't get your money back out of it in today's market.

[Gunplummer]

I have a cut/welded Arisaka I did before you could get a bolt gun in 7.62x39. I used the original barrel, but added a new chamber section. There is no way you are going to set that barrel back for that round and re-cut it. A popular thing is to set the barrel back and re-cut to .300 savage. I had one I bought at a yard sale and @ 100 yards it was really accurate with box ammo. You see them around at gunshows once and a while.



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Deer from last year. 150 grain Rem Corlokt.

[snowman748]

I'm just not sure what to do with this rifle. 7.7 Jap isn't hardly available and when and we're it is you're looking at $32-$40 a box. I could set up to reload 7.7 Jap but then I run into the issue of having to buy everything I need to reload (press, dies, etc) because I don't have any reloading equipment or supplies. Or I can have this gun cut apart to make something I'll actually use but at the expense of value and never being able to recoup my money.

That $38 semi-permanent chamber insert (7.7 Jap to 7.62x39) is looking better and better. I think I'll bite the bullet and just order the insert. It's said to use non-permanent loctite to fix the insert into your chamber, you then bent your extractor slightly inward to catch the rim of the 7.62x39 round and you have a nice single shot rifle that can can have the insert removed and returned to original configuration. Buy a non-matching extractor to bend and boom. No permanent damage to the value while still being able to shoot a common inexpensive round. I might even be able to pic up some spare magazine parts to modify like the Chinese did to work with the 7.62x39 round to have a repeater.

[snowman748]

Here is a link to the chamber inserts I found. Granted a 7.7 Jap to 7.62x39 insert isn't listed on his website but he did tell me via Email he has made them and would make me one but it would run more expensive then the 308/30-06 to 7.62x39 inserts he has on his site.

http://www.mcace.com/adapters.htm

Also you can find pictures of the magazine modifications as well as the other work the Chinese did to the Arisaka to get it to work with 7.62x39 at this link

https://www.forgottenweapons.com/rif...-in-7-62x39mm/

Sarco has a dust cover for $20 (I want one on the rifle for reasons!) and extractor for $15. Maybe throw in a reproduction canvas sling for $20. Wolff also has some increased power striker springs for the type 99 I'll probably pick one of those up aswell.

[doofus47]

interesting stuff.
thanks for the links