Recoil spring question.

g.willikers · June 25, 2017, 11:27 AM

Do recoil springs (or any coil spring) actually ever wear out?
Or do they only need replacing when they get saggy and the distances between the coils shrink enough to cause an obvious problem.
Are the recommendations for regular replacement mostly of benefit to the spring makers, kind of like oil changes in our cars?
The reason for the question is how long the recoil springs seem to last in my pistols.

Jim Watson · June 25, 2017, 11:37 AM

What would you call worn out?
I would consider that when "they get saggy and the distances between the coils shrink enough to cause an obvious problem" they are worn out.

A competitive shooter here brought his gun into FLG for an upgrade. He had not changed springs since the gun was new. His recoil spring was about 1/3 shorter than new and the wire was worn flat on the inside and outside of the coils from rubbing against the guide rod and spring tunnel. But he had no "obvious problem" because the gun was so straight and smooth that it had continued to operate normally.

P5 Guy · June 25, 2017, 11:51 AM

The operating spring on my SuperMatic Citation had wear that made all the coils have a flat spot, I replaced that spring.
The op-rod spring on the M1 gets replaced when it is shorter than spec or has flat spots on the coils.
I replaced the springs on my Walther P5c after a few thousand rounds because they were different lengths. The replacements were the same length.

JoeSixpack · June 25, 2017, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by g.willikers

Do recoil springs (or any coil spring) actually ever wear out?
Or do they only need replacing when they get saggy and the distances between the coils shrink enough to cause an obvious problem.
Are the recommendations for regular replacement mostly of benefit to the spring makers, kind of like oil changes in our cars?
The reason for the question is how long the recoil springs seem to last in my pistols.

Oh gawd here we go again.. another spring topic.

I personally think they do wear out yes.
On my 92's I replace the recoil about every 5k rounds.
Other semi auto's I own have not been shot enough to require a spring change so YMMV based on gun.

Recoil spring is the only spring I change on a schedule, The rest generally stay in service until I notice a problem which is rare.

When do you know it's time to change a recoil spring?

1. gun is noticeable easier to cycle. I mean a lot easier not just a broke in spring.
2. gun is malfunctioning, a lot, for no apparent reason and it has enough rounds that the spring could be worn out.
3. compare it with a new spring and is significantly shorter (the word "significantly" is subjective, use best judgment)

Unless It's difficult to find/get spring no big deal error on the side of caution most recoil springs are 5 or 6 bucks at most, hardly bank breaking expense when it rarely needs to be changed in the first place.. unless you're a comp shooter, in which case you're probably spending 1k's a year on ammo anyway.

T. O'Heir · June 25, 2017, 12:19 PM

Springs do not lose temper from being compressed. Even repeatedly. Neither do flat springs. The mattress on your bed has coil springs. Your vehicle's suspension uses flat springs. How often do you change either?

B-Shot · June 25, 2017, 09:22 PM

More on the subject https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=460410

FITASC · June 25, 2017, 10:05 PM

Springs weaken and fail from "work" - which is a full cycle of compression and release. Some may taker longer than others, but a good rule of thumb for most is typically ~5000 rounds.

g.willikers · June 26, 2017, 07:42 AM

My 2 cents:
How often to change any part in a shooter would probably depend on the usage.
A set schedule could be too conservative for many guns and situations.
Preventive maintenance can be carried too far and I've been guilty of it, too.
But it can be needlessly wasteful.

std7mag · July 18, 2017, 03:57 PM

I change the springs in the 1911 about 1500 rounds, roughly.

Mattress every 3-5 years.

Vehicle springs are supposed to be changed every 50-80 thousand miles.

Springs are wear out items.

Sevens · July 18, 2017, 04:43 PM

Here is a question that may have been asked but I've never seen it asked before:

What do you do with the spring that you have replaced?

Us gun guys are often frugal by nature, it seems out of character for me to just throw out something that seems like a useful item. But it is probably the best answer.

Jim Watson · July 18, 2017, 08:08 PM

Beats me. Seems like there ought to be SOME use for a squashed spring.
Send a batch to Forged In Fire to make knives out of.

JoeSixpack · July 18, 2017, 11:25 PM

I always keep my springs, not just from guns but from anything I junk, unless they're broke in such a way they can't be used.
worn out springs for the gun might be just the ticket for something else.

Don't replace them enough for space to be an issue.
also having a worn out spring as reference could be useful.

Bill DeShivs · July 19, 2017, 12:10 AM

Damned if I'm not going into the gun spring business!

Bayou · July 19, 2017, 05:00 AM

For my SR1911, the recoil spring gets replaced at around each 2K rounds. Telltale signs of the need to replace: a failure to return to battery and the old recoil spring being a full 3 coils shorter than a new one.

New springs are cheap - $2 apiece from shopRuger.com. No big deal...

I have a shooter friend who uses different criteria as to when to change recoil springs - when the calendar turns to Jan. 1, he replaces the spring...

Bayou

g.willikers · July 19, 2017, 10:27 AM

Recoil springs aren't the only ones to save.
I save just about every one I come across.
Before throwing broken stuff in the trash, save the springs that might be in them.
They can come in real useful at times.
I have bins full that have come in real handy.
Like for repairing guns even.
Some of those repairs with discarded springs have worked so well that the new replacements are still unused in their shipping bags.

dahermit · July 19, 2017, 10:40 AM

Quote:

New springs are cheap - $2 apiece from shopRuger.com. No big deal...

I went to the Ruger site and only found a single spring listed. That surprised me inasmuch as Ruger makes both a Commander size gun as well as a standard full size 1911. According to Brownell's (at least I think that is where I got my last 1911 recoil springs), the Commander length 1911's use a different recoil spring than the full-size guns. Or, did I miss something and Ruger does sell two different weights of 1911 springs?

g.willikers · July 19, 2017, 11:04 AM

If Ruger makes their 1911s in the various calibers that others do, they all take their own recoil springs, too.
Plus the different springs that can work with all the varieties of loads we reloaders can come up with.
Even with the standard, full sized version, lots of folks on the reloading forums report using non standard recoil springs, for various reasons.
If Ruger doesn't offer enough versions to suit, best get them from the spring makers who do.
They're probably making all of them anyway, no matter who is actually selling them.

dahermit · July 19, 2017, 09:12 PM

Quote:

If Ruger makes their 1911s in the various calibers that others do, they all take their own recoil springs, too.
Plus the different springs that can work with all the varieties of loads we reloaders can come up with.
Even with the standard, full sized version, lots of folks on the reloading forums report using non standard recoil springs, for various reasons.
If Ruger doesn't offer enough versions to suit, best get them from the spring makers who do.
They're probably making all of them anyway, no matter who is actually selling them.

It is difficult to make sense out of what you posted. Again, my point is this: Ruger makes both a full size 1911 and a Commander size gun. Commanders and Full size 1911 do not take the same weight of recoil spring. The Ruger site, unless I missed it, only lists a single recoil spring. So, did I miss their listing for the Command's recoil spring, or do they use the same one in both the full size and the Commander length guns? I am not so much looking to be dazzled with someone's knowledge, only looking for a straight answer.

g.willikers · July 20, 2017, 12:41 PM

The simple answer as I recall, is recoil springs are made in lengths relative to the size of the frames they are used with.
And the strength/weight is dependent on the caliber.
Have you invested in Kuhnhausen's 1911 books?
They provide better information than you can expect from a forum.
As for your question, "So, did I miss their listing for the Command's recoil spring?"
Sorry can't answer that one for you, as I wasn't there.
The point I was trying to make previously is the recommended spring isn't always correct.
And they aren't always to the advertised specs anyway.
The ammo being used is another contribution to the confusion.
As is the recoil effect.
As inexpensive as springs are, buy a variety and see what they do.
Just hope they arrive in separate packages and don't mix them up.
The voice of experience.
More dazzling with my vast knowledge of the universe.

James K · July 20, 2017, 01:29 PM

I think some folks may be missing the point. The main purpose of a recoil spring is not to resist recoil, but to return the slide to battery. The 1911, as an example, will work fine without the spring as long as the shooter manually returns the slide to battery.

As long as the spring does that, reliably, and fits properly, it is OK.

Jim

Sevens · July 20, 2017, 01:34 PM

^I have read exactly that before, but only rarely does someone post it (seems to start a storm of discussion...) and I also believe that having too HEAVY a recoil spring is hard on the handgun in the other, forward direction.

JoeSixpack · July 20, 2017, 01:43 PM

That's the recoil springs primary job but that's not to say it does not resist rearward movement also.

A worn out spring is not going to assist in that regard as well as a fresh one.
In such cases the slide is going to hit it's full rearward movement with more momentum then usual.

Don P · July 21, 2017, 06:45 AM

Quote:

I change the springs in the 1911 about 1500 rounds, roughly.

I'll send you my address. I'll gladly take those changed out springs off your hands

Quote:

Damned if I'm not going into the gun spring business

I'm with you Bill

Quote:

What do you do with the spring that you have replaced?

Us gun guys are often frugal by nature, it seems out of character for me to just throw out something that seems like a useful item. But it is probably the best answer.

To answer the question, why in the hell would you keep a "supposedly bad spring" that you changed out

????? You changed it because its out lived its usefulness.
Guess I'll go and change "all the bad used springs" in my 1911's and waste more money and make the spring maker happy

g.willikers · July 21, 2017, 07:17 AM

Quote:

I also believe that having too HEAVY a recoil spring is hard on the handgun in the other, forward direction.

Some 1911 owners use recoil springs on 5" .45 versions that are as light as 12 lbs for softer shooting.
But it does depend on the ammo, too.
To add to the confusion the hammer/main spring and the recoil spring act in unison and that relationship must be considered.
There's a lot to recommend staying with stock components, without really knowing what's going on.
There's quite a lot of variety in what is considered stock, too.
The last recoil springs I bought were advertised to be "original spec".
One was 16 lb and another was 18 lb as measured on my trusty spring checker tool.
Shows to go ya'.

JoeSixpack · July 21, 2017, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don P

To answer the question, why in the hell would you keep a "supposedly bad spring" that you changed out

????? You changed it because its out lived its usefulness.
Guess I'll go and change "all the bad used springs" in my 1911's and waste more money and make the spring maker happy

Couple reasons

1. Never know when a worn spring is better then no spring
2. Can compare past springs
3. The spring maybe useful in other projects, I keep all springs gun or otherwise unless they're rusty, broken, etc.
If the spring was originally say 12lb, and is now shorter and only 7lb, it could still be useful elsewhere.
4. Im a pack rat, that's why

It's not like they take up much room in the parts bin.

June 25, 2017, 11:27 AM	#1
g.willikers Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 10,442	Recoil spring question. Do recoil springs (or any coil spring) actually ever wear out? Or do they only need replacing when they get saggy and the distances between the coils shrink enough to cause an obvious problem. Are the recommendations for regular replacement mostly of benefit to the spring makers, kind of like oil changes in our cars? The reason for the question is how long the recoil springs seem to last in my pistols. __________________ Walt Kelly, alias Pogo, sez: “Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent.”

June 25, 2017, 11:51 AM	#3
P5 Guy Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2005 Location: Tampa Bay Posts: 1,804	Worn Spring The operating spring on my SuperMatic Citation had wear that made all the coils have a flat spot, I replaced that spring. The op-rod spring on the M1 gets replaced when it is shorter than spec or has flat spots on the coils. I replaced the springs on my Walther P5c after a few thousand rounds because they were different lengths. The replacements were the same length.

June 25, 2017, 12:19 PM	#5
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	Springs do not lose temper from being compressed. Even repeatedly. Neither do flat springs. The mattress on your bed has coil springs. Your vehicle's suspension uses flat springs. How often do you change either? __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

June 25, 2017, 10:05 PM	#7
FITASC Senior Member Join Date: December 6, 2014 Posts: 6,441	Springs weaken and fail from "work" - which is a full cycle of compression and release. Some may taker longer than others, but a good rule of thumb for most is typically ~5000 rounds. __________________ "I believe that people have a right to decide their own destinies; people own themselves. I also believe that, in a democracy, government exists because (and only so long as) individual citizens give it a 'temporary license to exist'—in exchange for a promise that it will behave itself. In a democracy, you own the government—it doesn't own you."- Frank Zappa

June 26, 2017, 07:42 AM	#8
g.willikers Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 10,442	My 2 cents: How often to change any part in a shooter would probably depend on the usage. A set schedule could be too conservative for many guns and situations. Preventive maintenance can be carried too far and I've been guilty of it, too. But it can be needlessly wasteful. __________________ Walt Kelly, alias Pogo, sez: “Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent.”

June 25, 2017, 11:37 AM	#2
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,539	What would you call worn out? I would consider that when "they get saggy and the distances between the coils shrink enough to cause an obvious problem" they are worn out. A competitive shooter here brought his gun into FLG for an upgrade. He had not changed springs since the gun was new. His recoil spring was about 1/3 shorter than new and the wire was worn flat on the inside and outside of the coils from rubbing against the guide rod and spring tunnel. But he had no "obvious problem" because the gun was so straight and smooth that it had continued to operate normally.

June 25, 2017, 09:22 PM	#6
B-Shot Member Join Date: October 25, 2016 Posts: 77	More on the subject https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=460410

July 18, 2017, 03:57 PM	#9
std7mag Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2013 Location: Central Taxylvania.. Posts: 3,609	I change the springs in the 1911 about 1500 rounds, roughly. Mattress every 3-5 years. Vehicle springs are supposed to be changed every 50-80 thousand miles. Springs are wear out items.

July 18, 2017, 04:43 PM	#10
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,756	Here is a question that may have been asked but I've never seen it asked before: What do you do with the spring that you have replaced? Us gun guys are often frugal by nature, it seems out of character for me to just throw out something that seems like a useful item. But it is probably the best answer. __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.

July 18, 2017, 08:08 PM	#11
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,539	Beats me. Seems like there ought to be SOME use for a squashed spring. Send a batch to Forged In Fire to make knives out of.

July 18, 2017, 11:25 PM	#12
JoeSixpack Senior Member Join Date: April 12, 2017 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,048	I always keep my springs, not just from guns but from anything I junk, unless they're broke in such a way they can't be used. worn out springs for the gun might be just the ticket for something else. Don't replace them enough for space to be an issue. also having a worn out spring as reference could be useful.

July 19, 2017, 12:10 AM	#13
Bill DeShivs Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 10,981	Damned if I'm not going into the gun spring business! __________________ Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler www.billdeshivs.com

July 19, 2017, 05:00 AM	#14
Bayou Senior Member Join Date: March 8, 2016 Location: SE Louisiana Posts: 300	For my SR1911, the recoil spring gets replaced at around each 2K rounds. Telltale signs of the need to replace: a failure to return to battery and the old recoil spring being a full 3 coils shorter than a new one. New springs are cheap - $2 apiece from shopRuger.com. No big deal... I have a shooter friend who uses different criteria as to when to change recoil springs - when the calendar turns to Jan. 1, he replaces the spring... Bayou __________________ Bayou NRA Life Member "Keep Calm and Reload"

July 19, 2017, 10:27 AM	#15
g.willikers Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 10,442	Recoil springs aren't the only ones to save. I save just about every one I come across. Before throwing broken stuff in the trash, save the springs that might be in them. They can come in real useful at times. I have bins full that have come in real handy. Like for repairing guns even. Some of those repairs with discarded springs have worked so well that the new replacements are still unused in their shipping bags. __________________ Walt Kelly, alias Pogo, sez: “Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent.”

July 19, 2017, 11:04 AM	#17
g.willikers Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 10,442	If Ruger makes their 1911s in the various calibers that others do, they all take their own recoil springs, too. Plus the different springs that can work with all the varieties of loads we reloaders can come up with. Even with the standard, full sized version, lots of folks on the reloading forums report using non standard recoil springs, for various reasons. If Ruger doesn't offer enough versions to suit, best get them from the spring makers who do. They're probably making all of them anyway, no matter who is actually selling them. __________________ Walt Kelly, alias Pogo, sez: “Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent.”

July 20, 2017, 12:41 PM	#19
g.willikers Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 10,442	The simple answer as I recall, is recoil springs are made in lengths relative to the size of the frames they are used with. And the strength/weight is dependent on the caliber. Have you invested in Kuhnhausen's 1911 books? They provide better information than you can expect from a forum. As for your question, "So, did I miss their listing for the Command's recoil spring?" Sorry can't answer that one for you, as I wasn't there. The point I was trying to make previously is the recommended spring isn't always correct. And they aren't always to the advertised specs anyway. The ammo being used is another contribution to the confusion. As is the recoil effect. As inexpensive as springs are, buy a variety and see what they do. Just hope they arrive in separate packages and don't mix them up. The voice of experience. More dazzling with my vast knowledge of the universe. __________________ Walt Kelly, alias Pogo, sez: “Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent.” Last edited by g.willikers; July 20, 2017 at 12:57 PM.

July 20, 2017, 01:29 PM	#20
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	I think some folks may be missing the point. The main purpose of a recoil spring is not to resist recoil, but to return the slide to battery. The 1911, as an example, will work fine without the spring as long as the shooter manually returns the slide to battery. As long as the spring does that, reliably, and fits properly, it is OK. Jim

July 20, 2017, 01:34 PM	#21
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,756	^I have read exactly that before, but only rarely does someone post it (seems to start a storm of discussion...) and I also believe that having too HEAVY a recoil spring is hard on the handgun in the other, forward direction. __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.

July 20, 2017, 01:43 PM	#22
JoeSixpack Senior Member Join Date: April 12, 2017 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,048	That's the recoil springs primary job but that's not to say it does not resist rearward movement also. A worn out spring is not going to assist in that regard as well as a fresh one. In such cases the slide is going to hit it's full rearward movement with more momentum then usual.