NRA Sues Ackerman-McQueen, Ackerman-McQueen Tries to Oust LaPierre at Meeting - Page 3

Bartholomew Roberts · May 16, 2019, 08:13 PM

I’m having a very difficult time squaring $19 million in a year to Brewer for two? cases (Suing NY and Ackerman McQueen). That sounds insane to me; but then the NRA paid AM $40 million in a year and Lord only knows what that was for.

Apparently around a half million of the fees paid to AM were for clothing allowances and trips to Lake Como for La Pierre.

I look forward to seeing Mr. Cotton at the next Texas Firearms law CLE if he shows.

Tony Z · May 17, 2019, 06:31 AM

I've blocked all NRA fundraising emails and tossing all bits of their mail campaign letters. All seem to have LaPierre's face pleading for funds.

They need to return to their roots and a grassroots effort to retake is the only way. I fear the 2A will be facing its biggest challenge ever, over the next few years.

**Aguila Blanca** · May 17, 2019, 03:58 PM

The problem is that two(?) years ago, they revised the by-laws to essentially make it impossible for the members to have any say in how the organization is run.

Glenn E. Meyer · May 17, 2019, 04:20 PM

It just gets worse:

https://www.npr.org/templates/transc...ryId=724089957

https://www.npr.org/2019/05/15/72296...ons-at-nonprof

https://thehill.com/regulation/lobby...e-to-step-down

No love for West or North, but I don't see their motivation in doing this.

Bartholomew Roberts · May 17, 2019, 05:48 PM

Timothy Knight helped organize resistance to Colorado gun laws. He spent his own money and with others built up a grass roots organization from scratch. He’s been active on the NRA board and spends his own money to attend and take part while receiving nothing. If he is saying he didn’t know, then I don’t believe it was because he was lazy or uninterested.

Sadly, I think the NRA is facing a well-coordinated and funded information operation against it; and its all the more effective because the underlying facts are true.

**Aguila Blanca** · May 17, 2019, 05:57 PM

$200,000 is $4,000 per year for fifty years. I'm quite certain that I have never spent anywhere close to $4,000 on clothes in a year, not even when I was working in an office suit-and-tie environment.

JERRYS. · May 17, 2019, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aguila Blanca

$200,000 is $4,000 per year for fifty years. I'm quite certain that I have never spent anywhere close to $4,000 on clothes in a year, not even when I was working in an office suit-and-tie environment.

that's only 8 suits a few pairs of shoes, a few ties, and a few shirts. not every year though.

Bartholomew Roberts · May 17, 2019, 06:49 PM

Chuck Michel, who has been litigating Second Amendment issues since before I could legally buy a handgun has posted his thoughts on the current scandal. It is worth a read:
https://m.facebook.com/permalink.php...00011088912909

The short version is “Don’t give up the ship. The NRA Board is doing its job and we don’t know the full story yet.”

**Aguila Blanca** · May 17, 2019, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JERRYS.

that's only 8 suits a few pairs of shoes, a few ties, and a few shirts. not every year though.

Understood, but who buys 8 suits, several pairs of shoes, a few ties and a few shirts EVERY single year, for FIFTY years straight?

FoghornLeghorn · May 17, 2019, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Too many people will equate the NRA to Goldman Sachs.

I'm thinking more along the lines of Enron and how they were recorded as laughing at the old women freezing because they couldn't keep up with the rate hikes.

I picture the grifters at the NRA as laughing at the naive membership and how the gravy train will never end.

Likely, it won't. Wayne might have to make do with a paltry $1 million/yr, but he and his are set for life. Likely.

littlebikerider · May 18, 2019, 06:08 AM

Did I read correctly that LaPierre makes over a million per year? Let him buy his own suits and book his own travel. Members' money is meant to aid the shooting sports and 2A advocacy, not make him posh.

I want the NRA to survive, but the credible evidence means they need to clean house and contribute to their own survival.

punkinhead · May 18, 2019, 07:23 AM

I don't have a problem with the NRA covering employee travel, but it better be commercial. I have a big problem paying for chartered jets, especially for Xmas trips to the Bahamas.

Bartholomew Roberts · May 25, 2019, 10:44 PM

Statement of NRA officers and past presidents on the controversy:
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/20...-and-bod-role/

It is my opinion, that none of the people signing that letter should ever be allowed to represent a pro-Second Amendmemt lobby again. I’m particularly upset with Mr. Charles Cotton, who I’ve met personally on several occasions. I understand that as a lawyer you can often be ethically constrained to where you cannot share all the evidence and have to sit silent while the media beats your client.

Mr. Cotton is defending spending $200,000+ on clothing by a man who is already well-compensated by arguing it was spread out over 15 years and was suggested by Ackerman-McQueen. I find that argument less than compelling. I’m grateful for the service Mr. Cotton has rendered in support of the Second Amendment; but to call this a lack of judgment is too kind.

I’m at a loss for what to do. We need the NRA. Everybody thinks of the NRA as a lobbying group; but its most important functions are supporting firearms training and education. Without that, there isn’t anything to lobby for. No other organization fills this need so we have no choices here.

On the lobbying side, GOA and SAF are worse choices. Neither organization even pretends to be member directed. If you give those organizations money, you are basically handing it directly to Erich Pratt or Alan Gottlieb and trusting them to do right with it instead of buying a Lamborghini.

GOA has practically contributed zero to the fight for RKBA. My opinion of them, developed over the last 20 years, is that it exists to benefit the Pratt family.

Alan Gottlieb/SAF has contributed to several key wins for the Second Amendment. He hasn’t been a glory hound either and stood by and let the NRA take credit for several of his key achievements. At the same time, he conspired with Chuck Schumer to sell us out on universal background checks in 2013, and then when David Kopel called him out on it, he had no good answer. He reversed his support for UBCs temporarily and then after the bill failed argued it should have passed. As angry as I am with NRA, even they weren’t that blind.

So as I see it, you can give your money to some random schmuck who will most likely betray you; and you won’t even have the fiction of being able to vote him out. Not to mention the random schmuck won’t be doing jack to address the major issue of creating an environment where new shooters can grow and develop. Without that, all the lobbying efforts are meaningless and we’ll be New Zealand in a generation or less.

The NRA is still member directed, though the executive officers appear to have captured the Board instead of the Board fulfilling its duty to the members. As much as I hate to say it, the NRA in its current form must starve. I’ll remain a member, just so I can continue to vote for a Board that takes its responsibilities seriously; but no love nor money for the NRA until they make the necessary changes.

If it dies, it was poorly adapted and needed to die.

JERRYS. · May 25, 2019, 11:03 PM

in other words, wasteful spending of membership money and sell out legislation.

Bartholomew Roberts · May 25, 2019, 11:59 PM

The thing is, I don’t care about the money or the trips to Lake Como if the person is producing results. WLP isn’t and neither is Chris Cox or the rest of that crew. If you want to live the Julius Casear lifestyle, you’d best subjugate Gaul.

Now WLP is getting murdered in the Senate; but no one cares because he hasn’t done anything to be remembered for. There won’t be any Marc Antony at his funeral either.

TxFlyFish · May 26, 2019, 10:08 AM

And here the rest of us eating ramen to save up for the next PSA blem

Tony Z · May 27, 2019, 06:22 AM

If any of the NRA brass happen to be paying any attention to us "little people", please note, that although most of us have prepaid our memberships for years to come, that does not mean we support you.

I have blocked all of your emails, tossed your USPS mailings into the trash, without opening. I will continue to form my opinion of the NRA, from threads such as this, from articles posted on gun blogs, from the news media and yes, even from from your (the NRA) explanations in your magazines. To remain relevant, you have much explaining to do. Please apply our DONATED and HARD EARNED CASH, to what you have been charged with, protecting our 2A rights and not to the alleged featherbedding of your wallets.

JERRYS. · May 27, 2019, 12:05 PM

its really too late to for the NRA with its current top people.... they've already gotten theirs so your pleading is useless. a complete overhaul at the top is needed to get their once good name back.

WyMark · May 29, 2019, 07:56 PM

welp...

https://thehill.com/regulation/lobby...ency-cuts-ties

Quote:

“Although today’s announcement by Ackerman is welcome news, it does not resolve the NRA’s legal actions against Ackerman. The Association will pursue its legal rights and hold Ackerman accountable for any damage it caused the Association. The agency was a longstanding vendor of the NRA. But like any other vendor, it will be held accountable – in the best interest of all NRA members.”

Sounds like it's going to be a rather bitter divorce proceeding.

**Aguila Blanca** · May 29, 2019, 08:35 PM

Especially as the NRA's counsel is still William Brewer III, who is presumeably still married to the daughter of one of the principals of Ackerman McQueen.

thallub · May 30, 2019, 11:00 AM

A high ranking Treasury Dep't. official asked the IRS to investigate the NRA tax exempt status:

Quote:

Under questioning from a Democratic congressman, a top Treasury Department official testified that the kind of reported self-dealing that has transpired at the National Rifle Association would merit further inquiry into an organization’s tax-exempt status.

https://www.thetrace.org/rounds/top-...investigation/

Bartholomew Roberts · May 31, 2019, 08:53 PM

Pete Brownell has resigned from the NRA Board of Directors. His statement:

Quote:

In the coming weeks, my company will be making exciting announcements about new opportunities that are important to the future success of our business. We look forward to sharing that news soon as possible. Given the hard work and full-time attention that will be needed as our brands continue to grow, I’ve decided to step down from my position on the NRA’s Board of Directors. It’s been an honor to serve the five million members of the NRA and I will continue standing side-by-side with the millions of Americans who care deeply about defending the Second Amendment.

Glenn E. Meyer · May 31, 2019, 10:30 PM

A polite step on to the life boat!

Bartholomew Roberts · June 1, 2019, 05:02 AM

It will be interesting to see if Colion Noir and Dana Loesch keep their current content now that their employer isn’t working with NRA any more.

Tony Z · June 1, 2019, 06:16 AM

Is there, or will there, be a Phoenix, the rise out of the ashes of what the NRA once was?

May 17, 2019, 06:31 AM	#52
Tony Z Senior Member Join Date: September 29, 2013 Location: North Central Pennsyltucky Posts: 749	I've blocked all NRA fundraising emails and tossing all bits of their mail campaign letters. All seem to have LaPierre's face pleading for funds. They need to return to their roots and a grassroots effort to retake is the only way. I fear the 2A will be facing its biggest challenge ever, over the next few years. Last edited by Tony Z; May 17, 2019 at 04:32 PM.

May 17, 2019, 04:20 PM	#54
Glenn E. Meyer Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2000 Posts: 20,064	It just gets worse: https://www.npr.org/templates/transc...ryId=724089957 https://www.npr.org/2019/05/15/72296...ons-at-nonprof https://thehill.com/regulation/lobby...e-to-step-down No love for West or North, but I don't see their motivation in doing this. __________________ NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc. - Aux Armes, Citoyens

May 17, 2019, 05:48 PM	#55
Bartholomew Roberts member Join Date: June 12, 2000 Location: Texas and Oklahoma area Posts: 8,462	Timothy Knight helped organize resistance to Colorado gun laws. He spent his own money and with others built up a grass roots organization from scratch. He’s been active on the NRA board and spends his own money to attend and take part while receiving nothing. If he is saying he didn’t know, then I don’t believe it was because he was lazy or uninterested. Sadly, I think the NRA is facing a well-coordinated and funded information operation against it; and its all the more effective because the underlying facts are true. Last edited by Bartholomew Roberts; May 17, 2019 at 05:53 PM.

May 31, 2019, 10:30 PM	#73
Glenn E. Meyer Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2000 Posts: 20,064	A polite step on to the life boat! __________________ NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc. - Aux Armes, Citoyens

May 16, 2019, 08:13 PM	#51
Bartholomew Roberts member Join Date: June 12, 2000 Location: Texas and Oklahoma area Posts: 8,462	I’m having a very difficult time squaring $19 million in a year to Brewer for two? cases (Suing NY and Ackerman McQueen). That sounds insane to me; but then the NRA paid AM $40 million in a year and Lord only knows what that was for. Apparently around a half million of the fees paid to AM were for clothing allowances and trips to Lake Como for La Pierre. I look forward to seeing Mr. Cotton at the next Texas Firearms law CLE if he shows.

May 17, 2019, 03:58 PM	#53
Aguila Blanca Staff Join Date: September 25, 2008 Location: CONUS Posts: 18,460	The problem is that two(?) years ago, they revised the by-laws to essentially make it impossible for the members to have any say in how the organization is run.

May 17, 2019, 05:57 PM	#56
Aguila Blanca Staff Join Date: September 25, 2008 Location: CONUS Posts: 18,460	$200,000 is $4,000 per year for fifty years. I'm quite certain that I have never spent anywhere close to $4,000 on clothes in a year, not even when I was working in an office suit-and-tie environment.

May 17, 2019, 06:49 PM	#58
Bartholomew Roberts member Join Date: June 12, 2000 Location: Texas and Oklahoma area Posts: 8,462	Chuck Michel, who has been litigating Second Amendment issues since before I could legally buy a handgun has posted his thoughts on the current scandal. It is worth a read: https://m.facebook.com/permalink.php...00011088912909 The short version is “Don’t give up the ship. The NRA Board is doing its job and we don’t know the full story yet.”

May 18, 2019, 06:08 AM	#61
littlebikerider Senior Member Join Date: September 10, 2018 Posts: 131	Did I read correctly that LaPierre makes over a million per year? Let him buy his own suits and book his own travel. Members' money is meant to aid the shooting sports and 2A advocacy, not make him posh. I want the NRA to survive, but the credible evidence means they need to clean house and contribute to their own survival.

May 18, 2019, 07:23 AM	#62
punkinhead Member Join Date: June 29, 2014 Posts: 23	I don't have a problem with the NRA covering employee travel, but it better be commercial. I have a big problem paying for chartered jets, especially for Xmas trips to the Bahamas.

May 25, 2019, 10:44 PM	#63
Bartholomew Roberts member Join Date: June 12, 2000 Location: Texas and Oklahoma area Posts: 8,462	Statement of NRA officers and past presidents on the controversy: https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/20...-and-bod-role/ It is my opinion, that none of the people signing that letter should ever be allowed to represent a pro-Second Amendmemt lobby again. I’m particularly upset with Mr. Charles Cotton, who I’ve met personally on several occasions. I understand that as a lawyer you can often be ethically constrained to where you cannot share all the evidence and have to sit silent while the media beats your client. Mr. Cotton is defending spending $200,000+ on clothing by a man who is already well-compensated by arguing it was spread out over 15 years and was suggested by Ackerman-McQueen. I find that argument less than compelling. I’m grateful for the service Mr. Cotton has rendered in support of the Second Amendment; but to call this a lack of judgment is too kind. I’m at a loss for what to do. We need the NRA. Everybody thinks of the NRA as a lobbying group; but its most important functions are supporting firearms training and education. Without that, there isn’t anything to lobby for. No other organization fills this need so we have no choices here. On the lobbying side, GOA and SAF are worse choices. Neither organization even pretends to be member directed. If you give those organizations money, you are basically handing it directly to Erich Pratt or Alan Gottlieb and trusting them to do right with it instead of buying a Lamborghini. GOA has practically contributed zero to the fight for RKBA. My opinion of them, developed over the last 20 years, is that it exists to benefit the Pratt family. Alan Gottlieb/SAF has contributed to several key wins for the Second Amendment. He hasn’t been a glory hound either and stood by and let the NRA take credit for several of his key achievements. At the same time, he conspired with Chuck Schumer to sell us out on universal background checks in 2013, and then when David Kopel called him out on it, he had no good answer. He reversed his support for UBCs temporarily and then after the bill failed argued it should have passed. As angry as I am with NRA, even they weren’t that blind. So as I see it, you can give your money to some random schmuck who will most likely betray you; and you won’t even have the fiction of being able to vote him out. Not to mention the random schmuck won’t be doing jack to address the major issue of creating an environment where new shooters can grow and develop. Without that, all the lobbying efforts are meaningless and we’ll be New Zealand in a generation or less. The NRA is still member directed, though the executive officers appear to have captured the Board instead of the Board fulfilling its duty to the members. As much as I hate to say it, the NRA in its current form must starve. I’ll remain a member, just so I can continue to vote for a Board that takes its responsibilities seriously; but no love nor money for the NRA until they make the necessary changes. If it dies, it was poorly adapted and needed to die.

May 25, 2019, 11:03 PM	#64
JERRYS. Senior Member Join Date: September 23, 2013 Location: Alabama Posts: 2,968	in other words, wasteful spending of membership money and sell out legislation.

May 25, 2019, 11:59 PM	#65
Bartholomew Roberts member Join Date: June 12, 2000 Location: Texas and Oklahoma area Posts: 8,462	The thing is, I don’t care about the money or the trips to Lake Como if the person is producing results. WLP isn’t and neither is Chris Cox or the rest of that crew. If you want to live the Julius Casear lifestyle, you’d best subjugate Gaul. Now WLP is getting murdered in the Senate; but no one cares because he hasn’t done anything to be remembered for. There won’t be any Marc Antony at his funeral either.

May 26, 2019, 10:08 AM	#66
TxFlyFish Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2011 Posts: 1,246	And here the rest of us eating ramen to save up for the next PSA blem

May 27, 2019, 06:22 AM	#67
Tony Z Senior Member Join Date: September 29, 2013 Location: North Central Pennsyltucky Posts: 749	If any of the NRA brass happen to be paying any attention to us "little people", please note, that although most of us have prepaid our memberships for years to come, that does not mean we support you. I have blocked all of your emails, tossed your USPS mailings into the trash, without opening. I will continue to form my opinion of the NRA, from threads such as this, from articles posted on gun blogs, from the news media and yes, even from from your (the NRA) explanations in your magazines. To remain relevant, you have much explaining to do. Please apply our DONATED and HARD EARNED CASH, to what you have been charged with, protecting our 2A rights and not to the alleged featherbedding of your wallets.

May 27, 2019, 12:05 PM	#68
JERRYS. Senior Member Join Date: September 23, 2013 Location: Alabama Posts: 2,968	its really too late to for the NRA with its current top people.... they've already gotten theirs so your pleading is useless. a complete overhaul at the top is needed to get their once good name back.

May 29, 2019, 08:35 PM	#70
Aguila Blanca Staff Join Date: September 25, 2008 Location: CONUS Posts: 18,460	Especially as the NRA's counsel is still William Brewer III, who is presumeably still married to the daughter of one of the principals of Ackerman McQueen.

June 1, 2019, 05:02 AM	#74
Bartholomew Roberts member Join Date: June 12, 2000 Location: Texas and Oklahoma area Posts: 8,462	It will be interesting to see if Colion Noir and Dana Loesch keep their current content now that their employer isn’t working with NRA any more.

June 1, 2019, 06:16 AM	#75
Tony Z Senior Member Join Date: September 29, 2013 Location: North Central Pennsyltucky Posts: 749	Is there, or will there, be a Phoenix, the rise out of the ashes of what the NRA once was?