The Guns that Criminals Carry - Know yourself/Know your enemy

[OldMarksman]

Posted by fastbolt:

The reality is, a gun is a gun is a gun in civilian self defense.

Whatever that means.

I've looked at a lot of statistics and research and the fact is MOST self defense situations where a gun is involved....

The fact is, the chances of a smaller bullet or magazine failing where a larger round or magazine would have saved your life are so small its almost not worth considering.

That said, carry whatever you want. Its a personal decision. But if you are concerned that you don't have enough "firepower" or "stopping power" I suggest you do some research on actual CIVILIAN self defense scenarios.

There are two summaries that I know of that address civilian use of force incidents in which shots were fired.

One covered about five dozen incidents involving former trainees of Tom Givens' classes. The other was compiled in what appears to have been another Tennessee municipality.

The data are far too few, and the number of possible variables is far too large, to tell us much of anything useful.

MOST self defense situations where a gun is involved don't even involve any shots being fired....

So, you you can ignore those data.

... and when shots re fired its rare that more than 2 or 3 are fired.

I'm not sure where you think you heard that, but most of us train to shoot more than three shots at the outset.

If you are accosted by a criminal at gun point you have a much better chance of survival by giving him your wallet or whatever he wants. Chances are he can pull the trigger faster than you can draw, aim, and fire.

That may sometimes be true. It will be a judgment call.

If he doesn't have a gun and you do, you have the upper hand no matter what and the odds of a smaller bullet failing you where a larger round would have worked are again very, very small.

Do you have any factual basis at all for that assertion?

Have you taken into account edged weapons?

In how many cases do you think you would be justified in shooting if you did not have a basis for a reasonable belief that the robber was armed?

How much realistic training have you had?

This is what I learned from doing actual research, i.e. not anecdotal reports and unsupported arguments from keyboard commandos.

The number of variables exceeds the number of equations.

And than there is at the little matter of the the fact that no one consistently records much relevant data.

[fastbolt]

Posted by OldMarksman:

Posted by fastbolt:
Quote:
The reality is, a gun is a gun is a gun in civilian self defense.
Whatever that means.

It means that a lot of gun owners like to place an inordinate amount of emphasis and importance on divining subtle nuances and characteristics of make/model/caliber/ammunition when it comes to thinking about choosing a handgun selected as a dedicated defensive weapon, but in the end it's still just a handgun. It's a piece of equipment.

The when, why & how of its potential usage deserve more attention than some folks seem inclined to give.

Putting the cart before the horse can risk creating unnecessary problems for achieving the actual goal and getting the tasks done.

That's all.

[OldMarksman]

Oh. Okay.

I thought maybe you were equating the effectiveness of a .22 Short and a .38 Special.

[fastbolt]

Nope.

The "finger pointing to the moon" example of not getting distracted by the finger, when the point is to see the moon.

[csmsss]

I simply don't know how any insight can be gleaned from the article. Apart from it already being pretty much widely known that nearly all criminals will be armed with concealable weapons, what else is presented that is actionable? That some criminals aren't exactly careful when it comes to loading their firearms? Are we supposed to plan on that? Ridiculous.