The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Hide > The Art of the Rifle: Semi-automatics

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old June 18, 2019, 10:57 PM   #1
tacstar
Member
 
Join Date: December 21, 2005
Posts: 19
M4 Type Buttsock Question

When was the telescopic stock developed for the AR-15?
I don't recall seeing them until the early to mid 2000's. When I acquired my rifle in the mid 90's the A2 buttstock with trap door storage compartment was the predominant stock on the consumer market.

I was watching a documentary on the Norco bank robbery and the suspects used AR-15's equipped with what appear to be telescopic M4 type buttstocks which I was unaware were available in 1980.

The narrator refers to them as "short stock" AR-15's.
tacstar is offline  
Old June 19, 2019, 02:24 AM   #2
44 AMP
Staff
 
Join Date: March 11, 2006
Location: Upper US
Posts: 19,805
Quote:
When was the telescopic stock developed for the AR-15?
The earliest one I know of is found on the XM-177 which was field tested in Viet Nam by the Army in 1967.

I have no idea when those kind of parts became available on the civilian market. I suspect that, like the AR itself, they got a lot more popular after some people tried to ban them.
__________________
All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.
44 AMP is offline  
Old June 19, 2019, 07:29 AM   #3
DMK
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 18, 2001
Location: Over the hills and far, far away
Posts: 2,915
Quote:
I don't recall seeing them until the early to mid 2000's. When I acquired my rifle in the mid 90's the A2 buttstock with trap door storage compartment was the predominant stock on the consumer market.
That's likely because between 1994 and 2004 the Federal Assault Weapons Ban made collapsible stocks illegal except for government and LEO use.

There were fixed (non collapsing) M4 style stocks for the look, but most folks just went with the standard A2 or A1 fixed stock since it is more comfortable.
DMK is offline  
Old June 19, 2019, 07:36 AM   #4
DMK
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 18, 2001
Location: Over the hills and far, far away
Posts: 2,915
Quote:
The earliest one I know of is found on the XM-177 which was field tested in Viet Nam by the Army in 1967.
When it was tested in the 80's, even the XM4 had that type of stock (Two position XM-177/Colt Commando/CAR-15 style).

https://imgur.com/a/KxtGoR4

In my research, the M4 as we know it today was officially adopted by the DOD in 1994. That was right at the start of the federal AWB, so that probably hindered a civilian adoption of these parts, although eventually there were workarounds.
DMK is offline  
Old June 19, 2019, 08:17 AM   #5
Destructo6
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 18, 1999
Location: Nogales, AZ USA
Posts: 3,941
Prior to the adoption of the M4 in 1994, there were Colt Commandos, DOE style Colts and many others with telescopic stocks.

I once owned a pre-1994 XM-177e2 clone, made by Eagle/Armalite, with aluminium 2-position collapsible stock. The stock rattled like crazy.
__________________
God gave you a soul.
Your parents, a body.
Your country, a rifle.

Keep all of them clean.
Destructo6 is offline  
Old June 19, 2019, 11:44 AM   #6
44 AMP
Staff
 
Join Date: March 11, 2006
Location: Upper US
Posts: 19,805
In the mid 80s I owned an XM-177 clone (semi), 11.5"barrel with the permanently attached long flashsuppressor, and the 2 position buttstock.

AS I recall, I paid $450 for it, owned it for a few years, discovered it liked to choke on (anything but FMJ) ammo that my Mini-14 ran through like a sewing machine. Having been a Small Arms Repairman, and having inspected / repaired several thousand M16s I was not a big fan of the rifle.

The reason I wound up getting one was simply, cost of accessories. Back in those happy days when semiauto rifles were not "evil" and no one was trying to ban them, AR accessories were cheap. For those of you too young to remember (or who never knew) a 30rnd stick for a Mini-14 was $14.95. A 30 rnd stick for an AR was $3. (yes, that's right THREE DOLLARS)

After Patrick Purdey murdered those kids at Stockton, and then himself, leaving the media nothing to do but focus on the rifle (an AK clone) and whip up a mass hysteria over "assault weapons" (which was in 86) I sold my XM-177 clone for $900. I have not, to date replaced it, nor do I have any AR pattern rile or any plans to own one again.

Again, I don't know just when the collapsible stock appeared on the civilian market but I can tell you from personal experience that they were available (though not common) a full decade BEFORE the 1994 ban.
__________________
All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.
44 AMP is offline  
Old June 19, 2019, 11:51 AM   #7
Bartholomew Roberts
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 12, 2000
Location: Texas and Oklahoma area
Posts: 8,002
The Colt Model 607 is the earliest model telescopic stock for an AR15 that I am aware of. It is no longer in use.

After that you have the XM177 telescopic stock that was used up until they redesigned the M4 in the mid-90s. Aside from that you have some weird variant telescopic stocks like the aircrew survival weapon or collapsing wire stock that could be used with the port firing weapon.

But I think the 607 is the first. Not sure why it was never mass produced as it looked like a solid design.
Bartholomew Roberts is offline  
Old June 19, 2019, 12:29 PM   #8
DMK
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 18, 2001
Location: Over the hills and far, far away
Posts: 2,915
Quote:
Prior to the adoption of the M4 in 1994, there were Colt Commandos, DOE style Colts and many others with telescopic stocks.
Quote:
Again, I don't know just when the collapsible stock appeared on the civilian market but I can tell you from personal experience that they were available (though not common) a full decade BEFORE the 1994 ban.
I think I misunderstood the OPs question. I thought it was specifically about the M4 stock as in the thread title, not the two position Car-15 stock.
DMK is offline  
Old June 20, 2019, 11:27 AM   #9
44 AMP
Staff
 
Join Date: March 11, 2006
Location: Upper US
Posts: 19,805
Quote:
When was the telescopic stock developed for the AR-15?
seems to be asking about the AR-15 to me.
__________________
All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.
44 AMP is offline  
Old June 20, 2019, 01:00 PM   #10
DMK
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 18, 2001
Location: Over the hills and far, far away
Posts: 2,915
Yeah, the OP was clear. I got hung up on the title and dates.
DMK is offline  
Old June 20, 2019, 02:24 PM   #11
eastbank
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 7, 2008
Location: pa.
Posts: 2,140
I bought a bushel basket full of m-16 30 round mags for a dollar a piece(take all no cherry picking), I was able to repair- replace parts and get 85 percent to work. several good friends and I had all the 30 round mags pretty cheap that we needed.
eastbank is offline  
Old June 20, 2019, 02:31 PM   #12
DaveBj
Junior Member
 
Join Date: June 15, 2019
Posts: 13
I'm not trying to be ugly, but the spelling error in the thread title made me LOL.

D
DaveBj is online now  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:06 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2018 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.06283 seconds with 9 queries