Frontier Bullets

[Bucksnort1]

Does anyone have reloading data for Frontier (South Africa) plated, .357, 158 grain bullets. I want to load them a little on the hot side for shooting from my Rossi 92.

[44 AMP]

I wouldn't. Load them "a little hot", I mean. I don't have specific knowledge of the those bullet you mention, but US plated bullet makers say to use lead bullet data, and not to exceed 1200fps.

Depending on the specific load, carbine length barrels can add 500fps to a pistol load, so loading them "a little hot" might not be a good idea.

jacketed slugs would be fine, but plated? I think, not so much.

[Bucksnort1]

44 AMP,

I will take your advice and run with it. Thank. I think Berry's Bullets have a 1,200 fps limit.

[jetinteriorguy]

Both Berry’s and Xtreme make heavy plated versions of some of their bullets which can be driven faster than 1200fps. I don’t remember the limit for sure but I think it’s up to 1400fps, you’ll have to research that for yourself.

[44 AMP]

My main point was to check what the regular pistol load does from a carbine length barrel and compare that with the bullet maker's recommendations.

I can push jacketed 158s in to the 1800fps range in my Marlin. And, yes, they're loaded "a little hot", but still within published data limits.

Don't think you want to do that with plated bullets, and I suspect if you did that accidently, you wouldn't get good results.

However, I do realize that there is "plating" and there is "plating" and different makers do different things sometimes.

[gwpercle]

Plated bullets can come with thin plating or a thicker plating ... both have velocity restrictions . Verify with maker what those restrictions are and do not exceed .
If you can't get this info from maker ... it would be wise to stay at or below 1200 fps in your rifle .

Your best bet for load data is to use for a similar weight , shape , profile , construction , published data ... Accurate Powders has data for Berry's plated bullets in their load data .
Accurate #2 and Accurate #5 powders would work well here.
Gary

[tangolima]

Plated bullet is somewhere between cast and jacketed. Some say it is the pressure, not the speed, that matters. One would need to experiment if he wants to push the limit. Work up the load while monitoring accuracy, leading in the bore, and recovered bullet conditions.

I did have a bunch of plated bullet for 7.62x39 for my SKS. It was going over 1500fps, if not close to 2000fps. No leading. I sold them because lousy groups. It turned out it was the rifle's problem. Same lousy groups when I switched to jacketed bullets. Its crown needed recutting. The plated bullets might have been ok if I kept them.

-TL

PS. A few manufacturers sell plated rifle bullets. .223 is one. I haven't tried that, but I would be reluctant to go fast. The tight twist of the barrel may pull the bullet apart.

PPS. I looked up my record. I have Xtreme plated bullets for .30 carbine. 1755fps. 1.2” group at 100yd. IMR4227. 10 shots. Group seems deteriorating above 1800fps.

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[Unclenick]

There's plating, and then there's plating. The Speer Gold Dot bullets all have plated jackets, but they are hard enough to reach jacketed bullet velocities.

The other factor (and I've thought about doing a video about it, but it would be a bit of a pain to put together) is that what causes bullets to start fouling badly is how hard they are upset by the pressure behind them. The higher the pressure, the more distorted they are and the more friction they have against the bore. The late Richard Lee describes this in the second edition of Modern Reloading and provides pressure limits based on BHN. The same should apply to plated bullets.

But here's the catch: assume you load a plated bullet to shoot at 1200 fps in your 4" 357 revolver with 2400. It should be around 25,000 psi peak. Now you take that same bullet and fire it in an 18" carbine. There's no difference in pressure, so there should be no difference in bullet distortion or failure to fly well, but the velocity will be about 1570 fps because of the barrel length. So, what's the real velocity "limit," and what assumptions are behind it?

[tangolima]

Originally Posted by Unclenick

There's plating, and then there's plating. The Speer Gold Dot bullets all have plated jackets, but they are hard enough to reach jacketed bullet velocities.



The other factor (and I've thought about doing a video about it, but it would be a bit of a pain to put together) is that what causes bullets to start fouling badly is how hard they are upset by the pressure behind them. The higher the pressure, the more distorted they are and the more friction they have against the bore. The late Richard Lee describes this in the second edition of Modern Reloading and provides pressure limits based on BHN. The same should apply to plated bullets.



But here's the catch: assume you load a plated bullet to shoot at 1200 fps in your 4" 357 revolver with 2400. It should be around 25,000 psi peak. Now you take that same bullet and fire it in an 18" carbine. There's no difference in pressure, so there should be no difference in bullet distortion or failure to fly well, but the velocity will be about 1570 fps because of the barrel length. So, what's the real velocity "limit," and what assumptions are behind it?

Unclenick. My point exactly. When loading with cast bullets, there are more factors to take into account. Plated bullets reassemble certain characteristics of cast bullets. Among them pressure is perhaps the primary one. Speed could become significant as lead is soft. Going fast means higher angular acceleration or torque from riflings engraving the material. Too high the torque stripping through starts to happen.

-TL

-TL

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[Unclenick]

Yes, torque is part of the bullet stress picture too. There may be some relief to be had by using friction-reducing agents, such as coating bullets with moly or hBN or mixing Tubb Dust into the powder. For that matter, you could certainly apply Lee Liquid Alox to plated bullets to see if it helps with fouling as you near the bullet's limit of performance.

I usually assume that when a manufacturer puts a velocity limit on a bullet design, they are assuming the SAAMI standard test barrel length for revolvers or auto pistols and common powders that achieve that velocity limit in those barrel lengths. I called Berry's to ask for confirmation of this yesterday, but they are closed for the holidays. I'll try another time.