Need help identifying and evaluating a Hart rifle

BoomieMCT · October 23, 2012, 10:28 AM

My uncle often pics up odd guns at auctions and what-not. This is one he got that I'd like more info on. The barrel is marked "Robert W Hart & Son .308 Winchester". I cannot find a serial number anywhere (might be inside the action or hiding somewhere). It has a very heavy 1 1/8" thick fluted stainless barrel.

I am familiar with Hart rifles, but only in passing. Anyone have some insight into what vintage this is or what the value might be?

taylorce1 · October 23, 2012, 02:03 PM

Well that is an old Bench Rest gun if I ever saw one. Probably made before the requirement of serial numbers on rifles. I'd call Hart barrels and see if they could possibly have any info from back when they were building rifles as well. I'm assuming of course that Hart barrels came out of "Robert Hart & Son".

As to Value I have no idea since this is a custom rifle values change a lot. If someone won a few competitions with it it could drive up the price depending who was shooting it. Really the value is in the history of it and who owned the rifle originally.

Scorch · October 23, 2012, 03:08 PM

You have a shell-holder design rifle built by Robert W Hart & Son Co. If you call Robert W Hart & Son with the serial number on your rifle, they will be able to answer any questions you may have about it. If you cannot find the serial number, they will be able to lead you to it.

Robert W Hart & Son has been in the accuracy and long-range rifle business for many years. They are not affiliated with Hart Barrels AFAIK (there may be a family tie or not). Hart barrels is in Lafayette, NY and Robert W Hart & Son is in Nescopeck, PA.

Contact info:
Headquarters
401 Montgomery St.
Nescopeck Pa, 18635
Office: (570) 752-3655
Order Line: 1-800-368-3656
Email: [email protected]

Because of the fluted barrel, my bet is that your rifle is about 10-15 years old at most.

old roper · October 23, 2012, 04:57 PM

Hart made 6 action different sizes Number 1,2,3,4 1A and 2A length of action varied.

Hart action had bolt stop on left side of action and they used a Ruger bolt handle,remington bolt and winchester extractor they varied on right or left lug and they use remington components in the firing unit. Recoil lug,trigger guard,escutcheon came from Remington.

Here is picture of Hart bolt go to post #10

http://benchrest.com/showthread.php?...t-rifle-action

BoomieMCT · October 24, 2012, 08:35 AM

Hmmm, the lugs look longer on this one. And I'd bet the bolt handle is from a Remington on this one.

I wrote the company and they claim that if it is a Robert W Hart & Son rifle there *will* be a serial number on the reciever. I cannot find it (yet).

old roper · October 24, 2012, 09:28 AM

When you posted the picture of that bolt it sure doesn't look like one for the Hart actions.

If you PM with your address I'll send you copies of what their actions look like plus spec on all 6 actions if that helps.

BoomieMCT · October 24, 2012, 10:42 AM

Got a letter from Hart & Son. Here it is;

"Dear Sir:

This is not a Hart action you have.

If you go to the Wichata web site, it appears to be one of their actions, per the bolt picture you sent us.

If the barrel is stamped with our name, and the caliber, we rebarreled the gun for a customer, but could not tell you who it was.

Hope this helps!"

Does anyone know anything about Wichata actions? This whole custom benchrest world is new to me.

Scorch · October 24, 2012, 02:07 PM

Wichita Arms has been around for a long time, mainly an accuracy and benchrest supplier. I have never seen a Wichita action that looks like that one, but it could be an older one. Maybe taylorce1 was right about being before serial numbers were required. Give them a call.

http://www.wichitaarms.com/

Wichita Arms, Inc.
923 E Gilbert
Wichita, Kansas 67211

Phone: (316) 265-0661
Fax: (316) 265-0760
Email: [email protected]

BoomieMCT · October 24, 2012, 02:09 PM

Any idea what the word on the street about those actions is? It seems very beefy - the lugs are HUGE!

Again, I know very little about this kind of customized work.

BoomieMCT · October 24, 2012, 02:10 PM

Also, Scorch, I'm not familiar with the term "Shell-holder rifle". Where can I learn more about that?

Scorch · October 24, 2012, 02:14 PM

A shell holder rifle is a type of action that is designed to be fed by taking the bolt out of the action and does not have an ejector. You just put a cartridge into the holder at the front of the bolt and insert it into the receiver. Not real common any more, but they were still around about 30 years ago.

BoomieMCT · October 24, 2012, 02:15 PM

Ah, that makes perfect sense. Yes, that is how the action works.

Previously I had only seen that on big .50 rifles.

old roper · October 24, 2012, 09:04 PM

BoomieMCT, the bolt handle does look like a Wichita and how the bolt is closed. I've got a picture of the 1375 action and that bolt has 3 locking lugs and they are huge they used sliding plate extractor directly opposite from that is extractor in the bolt face.

taylorce1 · October 24, 2012, 10:32 PM

Your rifle looks exactly like the Mini action from Wichita Arms products link to their actions.

October 23, 2012, 02:03 PM	#2
taylorce1 Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 2005 Location: On the Santa Fe Trail Posts: 8,249	Well that is an old Bench Rest gun if I ever saw one. Probably made before the requirement of serial numbers on rifles. I'd call Hart barrels and see if they could possibly have any info from back when they were building rifles as well. I'm assuming of course that Hart barrels came out of "Robert Hart & Son". As to Value I have no idea since this is a custom rifle values change a lot. If someone won a few competitions with it it could drive up the price depending who was shooting it. Really the value is in the history of it and who owned the rifle originally. __________________ NRA Life Member

October 23, 2012, 03:08 PM	#3
Scorch Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2006 Location: Washington state Posts: 15,248	You have a shell-holder design rifle built by Robert W Hart & Son Co. If you call Robert W Hart & Son with the serial number on your rifle, they will be able to answer any questions you may have about it. If you cannot find the serial number, they will be able to lead you to it. Robert W Hart & Son has been in the accuracy and long-range rifle business for many years. They are not affiliated with Hart Barrels AFAIK (there may be a family tie or not). Hart barrels is in Lafayette, NY and Robert W Hart & Son is in Nescopeck, PA. Contact info: Headquarters 401 Montgomery St. Nescopeck Pa, 18635 Office: (570) 752-3655 Order Line: 1-800-368-3656 Email: [email protected] Because of the fluted barrel, my bet is that your rifle is about 10-15 years old at most. __________________ Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs. But what do I know? Summit Arms Services

October 23, 2012, 04:57 PM	#4
old roper Senior Member Join Date: June 11, 2007 Posts: 2,155	Hart made 6 action different sizes Number 1,2,3,4 1A and 2A length of action varied. Hart action had bolt stop on left side of action and they used a Ruger bolt handle,remington bolt and winchester extractor they varied on right or left lug and they use remington components in the firing unit. Recoil lug,trigger guard,escutcheon came from Remington. Here is picture of Hart bolt go to post #10 http://benchrest.com/showthread.php?...t-rifle-action __________________ Semper Fi Vietnam 1965 VFW Life member NRA Life Member Last edited by old roper; October 23, 2012 at 05:07 PM.

October 24, 2012, 09:28 AM	#6
old roper Senior Member Join Date: June 11, 2007 Posts: 2,155	When you posted the picture of that bolt it sure doesn't look like one for the Hart actions. If you PM with your address I'll send you copies of what their actions look like plus spec on all 6 actions if that helps. __________________ Semper Fi Vietnam 1965 VFW Life member NRA Life Member Last edited by old roper; October 24, 2012 at 09:37 AM.

October 24, 2012, 02:07 PM	#8
Scorch Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2006 Location: Washington state Posts: 15,248	Wichita Arms has been around for a long time, mainly an accuracy and benchrest supplier. I have never seen a Wichita action that looks like that one, but it could be an older one. Maybe taylorce1 was right about being before serial numbers were required. Give them a call. http://www.wichitaarms.com/ Wichita Arms, Inc. 923 E Gilbert Wichita, Kansas 67211 Phone: (316) 265-0661 Fax: (316) 265-0760 Email: [email protected] __________________ Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs. But what do I know? Summit Arms Services

October 24, 2012, 08:35 AM	#5
BoomieMCT Senior Member Join Date: August 5, 2010 Posts: 212	Hmmm, the lugs look longer on this one. And I'd bet the bolt handle is from a Remington on this one. I wrote the company and they claim that if it is a Robert W Hart & Son rifle there will be a serial number on the reciever. I cannot find it (yet).

October 24, 2012, 10:42 AM	#7
BoomieMCT Senior Member Join Date: August 5, 2010 Posts: 212	Got a letter from Hart & Son. Here it is; "Dear Sir: This is not a Hart action you have. If you go to the Wichata web site, it appears to be one of their actions, per the bolt picture you sent us. If the barrel is stamped with our name, and the caliber, we rebarreled the gun for a customer, but could not tell you who it was. Hope this helps!" Does anyone know anything about Wichata actions? This whole custom benchrest world is new to me.

October 24, 2012, 02:09 PM	#9
BoomieMCT Senior Member Join Date: August 5, 2010 Posts: 212	Any idea what the word on the street about those actions is? It seems very beefy - the lugs are HUGE! Again, I know very little about this kind of customized work.

October 24, 2012, 02:10 PM	#10
BoomieMCT Senior Member Join Date: August 5, 2010 Posts: 212	Also, Scorch, I'm not familiar with the term "Shell-holder rifle". Where can I learn more about that?

October 24, 2012, 02:14 PM	#11
Scorch Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2006 Location: Washington state Posts: 15,248	A shell holder rifle is a type of action that is designed to be fed by taking the bolt out of the action and does not have an ejector. You just put a cartridge into the holder at the front of the bolt and insert it into the receiver. Not real common any more, but they were still around about 30 years ago. __________________ Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs. But what do I know? Summit Arms Services

October 24, 2012, 02:15 PM	#12
BoomieMCT Senior Member Join Date: August 5, 2010 Posts: 212	Ah, that makes perfect sense. Yes, that is how the action works. Previously I had only seen that on big .50 rifles.

October 24, 2012, 09:04 PM	#13
old roper Senior Member Join Date: June 11, 2007 Posts: 2,155	BoomieMCT, the bolt handle does look like a Wichita and how the bolt is closed. I've got a picture of the 1375 action and that bolt has 3 locking lugs and they are huge they used sliding plate extractor directly opposite from that is extractor in the bolt face. __________________ Semper Fi Vietnam 1965 VFW Life member NRA Life Member

October 24, 2012, 10:32 PM	#14
taylorce1 Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 2005 Location: On the Santa Fe Trail Posts: 8,249	Your rifle looks exactly like the Mini action from Wichita Arms products link to their actions. __________________ NRA Life Member