185gn LSWC .45acp and Win 231 - Opinions

[Josh Smith]

Hi Folks,

Got a question here.

I worked up a load: 185gn LSWC hardcast (BH 18) over 6.3gn W231. Primer is Rem LP. COL 1.230", which is a bit over the recommended 1.195".

This is above published max for cast. Max is 5.9gn W231.

However, it's well below published max for jacketed.

I've got opinions on the reloading boards that I'm kissing +P (I agree) but am not unsafe.

Others, from boards which are not dedicated to reloading, figure it's unsafe.

No pressure signs, but it's a low pressure cartridge as is.

My 1911 loves it.

I figure I'll get the most opinions here, so I'm askin' - am I being unsafe? I'm sure there are some who have "tweaked" loads hotter than this here...

Thank you,

Josh <><

[Sport45]

Personally, I don't load into +p territory unless I have published load data to support it. Pressure isn't a linear function of charge weight and excursions can be extreme.

To answer your question, In my opinion what you are doing is not a good practice. Whether it is "unsafe" or not I cannot say. It is apparently below the proof pressure of your chamber, but that's about all I know for sure.

As you say, it's a low pressure cartridge. With that comes a barrel and chamber that is engineered around a low pressure cartridge. When the .45 super was developed to shoot in regular 1911's they beefed up the brass to handle the extra pressure the chamber wasn't designed to take.

[darkgael]

The Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook lists 6.0 grains of 231 as max. It lists the pressure for that load in CUP at 17,500. It also lists velocity at 958.
You may well be getting over 1000 fps. Are you getting leading?
You have at least two sources telling you that you are over max for the bullet that you are using. Substituting jacketed data for lead is not necessarily wise; the two type of bullets have different lubricity. I don't know that that makes it unsafe; it does make it iffy.
Iffy because you don't know what you have and you can't tell by looking. A straight-walled low pressure cartridge like the .45 is not going to give you over-pressure signs until you are way over and maybe not then.
There is no practical reason to go over the published max in any cartridge, certainly not in one with as much data as the .45 ACP.
Pete

PS - Just saw your inquiry on other forums. Looking for advice is good. I suggest to you that being unsure is in itself an answer to whether or not you should be using this load.

[philbo]

I'd have to ask why are you pushing a lead SWC into +p territory?

If it's only for plinking, then I'd back off the load... no sense putting extra stress on your pistol only for practice.
If it's to use for self defense, then I'd choose a jacketed bullet to begin with.
If it's just because you can... then why bother looking for approval of a load that's clearly beyond specs?

I guess I'm having trouble understanding why you'd do this in the first place?

[Josh Smith]

Hi folks,

This is an attempt to make major power factor as I was invited to do some possible IDPA, if we get enough signed up.

I bought these bullets for small game during rabbit and squirrel season. Incredibly accurate over 5.6gn W231.

I'm making minor easily with this load, but I figured the 1911 can be built to handle the .45 Super with a bit of tweaking and the Super brass, of course - and since my 1911 is built around military loads and some of the hotter self-defense loads, I'd see if I could maybe scoot the bullet fast enough to do this.

I know there were hotrodders back in the day who walked the razor's edge, and Pachmayr grips were preferred due to their metal construction

If it's unsafe, I will not do it. I know that W231 is a pretty fast powder, and it's that pressure spike at the very beginning that has me just a little concerned. Other than that, I'm confident in the platform's ability to take the load on a limited basis.

Thanks,

Josh <><

[philbo]

Originally Posted by El Chivato

This is an attempt to make major power factor as I was invited to do some possible IDPA, if we get enough signed up.

Major for IDPA in CDP is 165,000, (for every other semi-auto class it is only 125,00 which you easily achieved with you target load that you state is accurate and within spec). You'll need to reach 900 fps to reach the CDP class with a 185 grain bullet. You're pushing the upper envelope of W231/HP38 to do this. Other powders could achieve this easily and not push into +p territory. The only way to know if you're getting a fair balance of velocity and pressure is to chronograph the load. If you're not verifying velocity you're missing a vital component in load development, especially when you're beyond published loads. My guess is you'll discover what most of us already have... that there is a diminishing point of return at the upper envelope of all powders. You can keep building pressure, but the increase in velocity is minimal and not worth the extra pressure you're building up.

You already have an accurate target load that is within published load data at 5.6 grains. If your goal is to make major, you'll probably find that it's easier on you and your pistol to use a different powder/bullet combination than trying to push W231/HP38 beyond it's intended use as a powder for medium target loads. But, to each his own.

[darkgael]

El C: Yes, why don't you try using another powder? IMR's SR 7625 will give you more velocity with that 185 LSWC at the same pressure. HS-6 will give you more velocity at less pressure. 700X is another choice.
Pete