OAL

ragwd · March 25, 2009, 12:26 AM

I am new to reloading, have about 200 rounds sucessfully down range but it seems as I am still learning. In reading other threads on this forum some one said that the over all length has different effect on rifle cartridges than pistol cartridges. So I have been looking at different load sources and I see a difference in OAL of the 45ACP. I have loaded to a OAL of 1.25 so far, but I see some loads suggesting a shorter OAL, down as far as 1.2 and 1.22. I am loading 45acp with S&B once fired with remington primers with 230fmj rn using 5.0 grains of hodgdon HP-38 powder to a over all length of 1.250. So my question is what effect would shortening the OAL to 1.2 have. I am a bit wary of trying it so I am asking ?

dmazur · March 25, 2009, 01:02 AM

Here's a link to quite a few loads for the .45 ACP -

.45 ACP load data

You are correct. There is considerable variation in OAL for what appears to be similar bullet weights.

Unfortunately, the load data doesn't show the manufacturer of the bullet, and bullet shape can vary for the same weight. Especially JHP's. This can mean different OAL's for 200gr bullets, for example.

I understand that dangerous overpressures can develop in pistol calibers from "bullet setback", which is just about the same thing as ignoring load data and seating a bullet deeper than specified.

In reality, a few thousandths variation in seating depth probably won't cause any harm, but I would be very cautious when deviating from published data.

Wikipedia shows OAL for the .45ACP as 1.260" -

.45 ACP

capbuster · March 25, 2009, 01:05 AM

Since you are using a 230grain bullet you might want to use an oal that comes close to factory ball ammo. If 1.250 is cycling ok,you might want to keep using it. The lighter bullets are shorter and therefore a shorter oal is listed for them.

MDB · March 25, 2009, 06:52 AM

I loaded up different OAL. From 1.190 to 1.275. What cycled through my CZ97B the best was 1.245. I got good accuracy and no feeding problems at that OAL. I was loading Oregon Trail Laser Cast 230gr. RN. See what works best for you.

SL1 · March 25, 2009, 08:36 AM

ragwd,

I just finished typing something that will help you understand. It is here:

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...d.php?t=347259

If your COL is working for you, I don't understand why you would change it.

But, if your question has to do with using data that only specifies a bullet weight and whether it is lead or jacketed (like the Lee manual), then I understand your problem. One thing you can do is to try to trace the load back to its source and get more info, such as bullet manufacturer and cartridge COL (and probably case headstamp, primer and test gun that produced the velocities). Lee simply copied the loading data provided by all of the powder manufacturers and printed it in his book. So, you can start by looking at the powder manufacturers' web site to get the rest of the info. But, in some cases, those loads have changed since Lee wrote his book, and you will see that things like pressure and velocity don't match. In that case, you can ask on this forum if some of the guys with old "powder guides" can identify the load and give you the rest of the info.

That is probably a wise thing to do when you are loading for full power. But, if you are only loading target-level ammo that is well below max pressure, then it isn't really necessary.

SL1

ragwd · March 25, 2009, 09:50 AM

Thanks for the input guys, I do read my threads and listen to what you guys say. I am a noob and trying to learn. I understand that if 1.25 is working why change? Well I haven't changed yet, but I am trying to understand a bit more.
SL1, it was hodgdons powder web site that suggested 1.2, I do have Speers and Horandy load books. For the same bullet, 230 fmj RN , there are different COL's among the 3 that I have just said. I am just trying to understand. Most of my factory loads are 1.25 . So for that bullet I am getting a range from 1.2 to 1.26 . Thats a range of .06 or about 1/16 of a inch. It just seems like alot and was hoping to understand why. MDB it sound as though your CZ will cycle anything. Did it start to show sign of over pressure at that lower range ? Capbuster, I am running low on my supply of 230 fmj RN and I just got 1000 rounds of 200 fmj RN, so i will be trying a lighter bullet soon. Thanks again all for your patience with my noob question, as I read this forum I do see alot of beginners asking question, has it always been like this or has the liberal scare brought out a horde of noobes?

SL1 · March 25, 2009, 12:58 PM

Quote:

has it always been like this or has the liberal scare brought out a horde of noobes?

Both.

SL1

MDB · March 25, 2009, 04:56 PM

When I got up to 1.260 they would not feed. So I went back down to find the best one. You have to keep in mind "head space" for the 45. I dropped them in my barrel to be sure they would work. Try to keep them even with the barrel hood maybe minus .001 to .003. I didn't have any issues with pressure. See what works for you. Also do some research on "bullet ogive" as that will help.

tiberius10721 · March 25, 2009, 05:52 PM

first time I reloaded 45 acp I was using my lee manual and it gave me a minimum overall length 1.19 so i loaded my first round to that length and looked at it and it just looked to short.so I just readjusted the length to 1.24 and my reloads worked fine.

LHB1 · March 27, 2009, 09:42 PM

For .45 ACP, the OAL is dependent on bullet chosen (weight and shape), and is selected to optimize feeding and chambering. Then the powder type and charge are adjusted to be within safe pressure limits for that OAL (seating depth). IME, an OAL of 1.240"-1.250" has been an almost universal optimum length for most 200 gr and 230 gr bullets in 1911's. At less than 1.220" or more than 1.260", feeding problems "may" occur. Note: OAL for short nosed bullets and 185 gr bullets may be shorter than quoted above.

March 25, 2009, 12:26 AM	#1
ragwd Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2006 Posts: 925	OAL I am new to reloading, have about 200 rounds sucessfully down range but it seems as I am still learning. In reading other threads on this forum some one said that the over all length has different effect on rifle cartridges than pistol cartridges. So I have been looking at different load sources and I see a difference in OAL of the 45ACP. I have loaded to a OAL of 1.25 so far, but I see some loads suggesting a shorter OAL, down as far as 1.2 and 1.22. I am loading 45acp with S&B once fired with remington primers with 230fmj rn using 5.0 grains of hodgdon HP-38 powder to a over all length of 1.250. So my question is what effect would shortening the OAL to 1.2 have. I am a bit wary of trying it so I am asking ?

March 25, 2009, 01:02 AM	#2
dmazur Senior Member Join Date: July 5, 2007 Location: Pacific NW Posts: 1,310	Here's a link to quite a few loads for the .45 ACP - .45 ACP load data You are correct. There is considerable variation in OAL for what appears to be similar bullet weights. Unfortunately, the load data doesn't show the manufacturer of the bullet, and bullet shape can vary for the same weight. Especially JHP's. This can mean different OAL's for 200gr bullets, for example. I understand that dangerous overpressures can develop in pistol calibers from "bullet setback", which is just about the same thing as ignoring load data and seating a bullet deeper than specified. In reality, a few thousandths variation in seating depth probably won't cause any harm, but I would be very cautious when deviating from published data. Wikipedia shows OAL for the .45ACP as 1.260" - .45 ACP __________________ .30-06 Springfield: 100 yrs + and still going strong

March 25, 2009, 01:05 AM	#3
capbuster Senior Member Join Date: August 7, 1999 Location: Bessemer,Alabama Posts: 302	Since you are using a 230grain bullet you might want to use an oal that comes close to factory ball ammo. If 1.250 is cycling ok,you might want to keep using it. The lighter bullets are shorter and therefore a shorter oal is listed for them. __________________ cliff

March 27, 2009, 09:42 PM	#10
LHB1 Senior Member Join Date: March 25, 2005 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 1,545	For .45 ACP, the OAL is dependent on bullet chosen (weight and shape), and is selected to optimize feeding and chambering. Then the powder type and charge are adjusted to be within safe pressure limits for that OAL (seating depth). IME, an OAL of 1.240"-1.250" has been an almost universal optimum length for most 200 gr and 230 gr bullets in 1911's. At less than 1.220" or more than 1.260", feeding problems "may" occur. Note: OAL for short nosed bullets and 185 gr bullets may be shorter than quoted above. __________________ Good shooting and be safe. LB

March 25, 2009, 06:52 AM	#4
MDB Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2002 Posts: 154	I loaded up different OAL. From 1.190 to 1.275. What cycled through my CZ97B the best was 1.245. I got good accuracy and no feeding problems at that OAL. I was loading Oregon Trail Laser Cast 230gr. RN. See what works best for you.

March 25, 2009, 08:36 AM	#5
SL1 Senior Member Join Date: November 8, 2007 Posts: 2,001	ragwd, I just finished typing something that will help you understand. It is here: http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...d.php?t=347259 If your COL is working for you, I don't understand why you would change it. But, if your question has to do with using data that only specifies a bullet weight and whether it is lead or jacketed (like the Lee manual), then I understand your problem. One thing you can do is to try to trace the load back to its source and get more info, such as bullet manufacturer and cartridge COL (and probably case headstamp, primer and test gun that produced the velocities). Lee simply copied the loading data provided by all of the powder manufacturers and printed it in his book. So, you can start by looking at the powder manufacturers' web site to get the rest of the info. But, in some cases, those loads have changed since Lee wrote his book, and you will see that things like pressure and velocity don't match. In that case, you can ask on this forum if some of the guys with old "powder guides" can identify the load and give you the rest of the info. That is probably a wise thing to do when you are loading for full power. But, if you are only loading target-level ammo that is well below max pressure, then it isn't really necessary. SL1

March 25, 2009, 09:50 AM	#6
ragwd Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2006 Posts: 925	Thanks for the input guys, I do read my threads and listen to what you guys say. I am a noob and trying to learn. I understand that if 1.25 is working why change? Well I haven't changed yet, but I am trying to understand a bit more. SL1, it was hodgdons powder web site that suggested 1.2, I do have Speers and Horandy load books. For the same bullet, 230 fmj RN , there are different COL's among the 3 that I have just said. I am just trying to understand. Most of my factory loads are 1.25 . So for that bullet I am getting a range from 1.2 to 1.26 . Thats a range of .06 or about 1/16 of a inch. It just seems like alot and was hoping to understand why. MDB it sound as though your CZ will cycle anything. Did it start to show sign of over pressure at that lower range ? Capbuster, I am running low on my supply of 230 fmj RN and I just got 1000 rounds of 200 fmj RN, so i will be trying a lighter bullet soon. Thanks again all for your patience with my noob question, as I read this forum I do see alot of beginners asking question, has it always been like this or has the liberal scare brought out a horde of noobes?

March 25, 2009, 04:56 PM	#8
MDB Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2002 Posts: 154	When I got up to 1.260 they would not feed. So I went back down to find the best one. You have to keep in mind "head space" for the 45. I dropped them in my barrel to be sure they would work. Try to keep them even with the barrel hood maybe minus .001 to .003. I didn't have any issues with pressure. See what works for you. Also do some research on "bullet ogive" as that will help.

March 25, 2009, 05:52 PM	#9
tiberius10721 Junior member Join Date: December 22, 2008 Posts: 228	first time I reloaded 45 acp I was using my lee manual and it gave me a minimum overall length 1.19 so i loaded my first round to that length and looked at it and it just looked to short.so I just readjusted the length to 1.24 and my reloads worked fine.