The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Hide > The Art of the Rifle: General

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old September 3, 2020, 07:58 PM   #26
SIGSHR
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 13, 2005
Posts: 4,462
Given the extent of the British Empire I'd say it was popular in a lot of places. It got the British through two world wars, the Boer/South African War, Korea, the Malayan Insurgency and who knows how many small actions. In power I'd compare it to the 308.
SIGSHR is offline  
Old September 4, 2020, 09:14 AM   #27
aarondhgraham
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 1, 2009
Location: Stillwater, OKlahoma
Posts: 8,569
Aaron- Aren't Taylors and Uberti's squoze out of the same factory?

I could be wrong about this,,,
But I believe that Uberti is a manufacturer,,,
While Taylor's and Company is an importer/distributor.

So yes, they are probably squozed from the same plant.

Aarond

.
__________________
Never ever give an enemy the advantage of a verbal threat.
Caje: The coward dies a thousand times, the brave only once.
Kirby: That's about all it takes, ain't it?
Aarond is good,,, Aarond is wise,,, Always trust Aarond! (most of the time)
aarondhgraham is offline  
Old September 4, 2020, 09:30 AM   #28
Jim Watson
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 25, 2001
Location: Alabama
Posts: 16,452
Right.
All these importers like Taylor say they are getting the cream of the crop from foreign makers like Uberti. Maybe they are, a friend's Taylor SAAs are very nice, but the one I got from Mitchell was pretty sad.
Jim Watson is offline  
Old September 4, 2020, 10:02 AM   #29
natman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 24, 2008
Posts: 2,372
Quote:
Originally Posted by aarondhgraham View Post
I was perusing the Uberti website looking for possible retirement rifle,,,
I noticed their new Courtney Stalking Rifle.

I said to myself "Self, that's a nice looking rifle."

Then I saw that it was chambered in .303 British.

My question on this is,,,
Why?
Read the linked text:
Not unlike the Easterners who had settled the West, many British hunters ventured into the unknown of Africa and Asia to become legendary names—and their hunting rifles the most sought-after by collectors worldwide.

It is in this spirit that Uberti USA offers the 1885 Courteney stalking rifle. Named after the celebrated English hunter, explorer and naturalist Courteney Selous (1851-1917), this rifle gives today’s shooter the looks, feel, and usability of the turn-of-the-century British single-shots that were first taken to the British colonies—but at a fraction of the cost. The 1885 Courteney is built on the ultra-strong 1885 action and makes its debut in the classic .303 British cartridge—the most used caliber in the British Empire.


They are marketing a Winchester 1885 copy dressed up as a British Stalking Rifle, hence the British cartridge. And it's an excellent choice for the role. Usable ballistics, readily available, manageable recoil and as British as they come.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aarondhgraham View Post
Oh, while I'm here,,,
I remember pulling one cartridge apart.

It didn't have powder,,,
It had something that looked like 2" of very thin pasta.

Was that what they called Cordite?
Yes.
__________________
Time Travelers' Wisdom:
Never Do Yesterday What Should Be Done Tomorrow.
If At Last You Do Succeed, Never Try Again.
natman is offline  
Old September 4, 2020, 10:13 AM   #30
aarondhgraham
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 1, 2009
Location: Stillwater, OKlahoma
Posts: 8,569
"All these importers like Taylor say they are getting the cream of the crop from foreign makers like Uberti. Maybe they are, a friend's Taylor SAAs are very nice,,,"

I have a 5.5" Cattleman in .22 LR that I bought from Taylor's and Co.,,,
It's a nicely made handgun,,,
Great case coloring.

I was told by a gunsmith who I trust that it's Uberti made.

I know that when I put it side by side to a friends Uberti .22 LR revolver,,,
We can't tell a bit of difference other than the case colored finish,,,
Every outer detail of the guns seem identical.

Aarond

.
__________________
Never ever give an enemy the advantage of a verbal threat.
Caje: The coward dies a thousand times, the brave only once.
Kirby: That's about all it takes, ain't it?
Aarond is good,,, Aarond is wise,,, Always trust Aarond! (most of the time)
aarondhgraham is offline  
Old September 4, 2020, 10:39 AM   #31
mikejonestkd
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 3, 2006
Location: Brockport, NY
Posts: 3,490
Aarond,
Uberti, Taylors, Stoeger, and Cimmarron are all made by Benelli/ Beretta.

according to my local smith, who specializes in Cowboy action firearms, there are some subtle differences between then as far as fit and finish, depending on the requested specs for a particular model.

A neat story about the town in Italy where they are made:

https://www.politico.eu/interactive/...guns-firearms/
__________________
You are the bows from which your children as living arrows are sent forth.
mikejonestkd is offline  
Old September 6, 2020, 02:32 PM   #32
rightside
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 4, 2012
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 419
"Was it like this?" fiercely answered Morant. "No; it was not quite so handsome. As to rules and regulations, we had no Red Book, and knew nothing about them. We were out fighting the Boers, not sitting comfortably behind barb-wire entanglements; we got them and shot them under Rule 303," refe rring to the .303 calibre Lee-Enfield rifles . "Breaker Morant" good movie.
rightside is offline  
Old September 7, 2020, 08:03 PM   #33
44 AMP
Staff
 
Join Date: March 11, 2006
Location: Upper US
Posts: 22,181
Quote:
The section of rope would be inserted into the partly formed case, which was necked down after the Cordite went in."
I don't have a link, sorry.. but I have seen a series of photographs taken at a British "ammo factory" during 1940.

Several tables of ladies, each with a tray of cases, base down. The ladies then inserted a "bundle" of "cordite sticks" and then cut them off flush with the case mouth, with a knife.

Each completed tray was then carried to another station where a press machine was used to neck the brass and seat the bullets.

One thing to be aware of, sporting rifles chambered in .303 British usually have chambers closer to published dimensions than British military rifles. IF so, normal case life may be expected.

Though there is no guarantee and you'll just have to see what the rifle in your hands actually does.

Also, along with the .303, 7.7 Jap, and 7.62x54R the .311-.312" bullets also work in the 7.65mm Argentinian (Belgian)
__________________
All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.
44 AMP is offline  
Old September 8, 2020, 09:04 AM   #34
taylorce1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 18, 2005
Location: On the Santa Fe Trail
Posts: 7,360
I used to own an old sporterized Enfield MK3 .303 rifle, it was fun to shoot and pretty darn accurate with the sights it had. Shooting old cartridges is still fun, and I'd still happily hunt most anything with the cartridge. Sure there are probably better options, but it doesn't change the fact that the old .303 still works.
__________________
NRA Life Member
taylorce1 is offline  
Old September 8, 2020, 09:13 AM   #35
Jim Watson
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 25, 2001
Location: Alabama
Posts: 16,452
That sounds like a rather dangerous wartime expedient.
The version I read, the cordite rope was fed into the loading room through a flash door (such as the British warships at Jutland lacked) and cut to length mechanically.

Seems like cutting the rope across the case mouth would cause seating the bullet to crumple the rope. They probably didn't care in 1940.

Anecdote Alert:
Cordite is a high energy propellant.
When Winchester brought out the .458 Winchester Magnum as a short magnum, it did not leave a lot of room for powder to match the .450 Nitro. Flip flopping on powder selection and shortening the barrel of the Winchester Model 70 African from 25 to 22 inches led to velocities below 2000 fps.
Some PWHs wanted to get back to real dangerous game ballistics so they pulled bullets from .303s and used the Cordite to handload .458s. They found an appropriate number of strands to get velocity back up to the 2150 fps of the usual safari bigbore.
Jim Watson is offline  
Old September 8, 2020, 04:27 PM   #36
Paul B.
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 28, 1999
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 3,407
I think the rifle that would come a lot closer to a British stalking rifle would be a Ruger #1 in .303, preferably using the #1S model with 26" barrel. I've always wanted a Farqharson in some British cartridge (.303 would be nice) but never had the kind of cash those selling them wanted. The Ruger is close enough to be a clone. Just my not very humble opinion. Come to think of it, I really like on in 757 Mauser AKA .275 Rigby.
Paul B.
__________________
COMPROMISE IS NOT AN OPTION!
Paul B. is online now  
Old September 9, 2020, 04:00 PM   #37
ernie8
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 9, 2018
Posts: 110
All of the British cordite loaded .303 I have taken apart has had the cordite cut even with the bottom of the neck . I have never seen any that has been smashed down by the bullet . The British used cordite because the Enfield was a weak action , they only approved the use of nitro powder for war emergency as it was too rough on the rifle .
ernie8 is offline  
Old September 10, 2020, 09:41 AM   #38
natman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 24, 2008
Posts: 2,372
Quote:
Originally Posted by ernie8 View Post
All of the British cordite loaded .303 I have taken apart has had the cordite cut even with the bottom of the neck . I have never seen any that has been smashed down by the bullet . The British used cordite because the Enfield was a weak action , they only approved the use of nitro powder for war emergency as it was too rough on the rifle .
People have been shooting Lee Enfields with nitro powder for decades now. Loaded to reasonable levels the SMLE can handle nitro powder just fine.
__________________
Time Travelers' Wisdom:
Never Do Yesterday What Should Be Done Tomorrow.
If At Last You Do Succeed, Never Try Again.
natman is offline  
Old September 10, 2020, 11:28 AM   #39
Jim Watson
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 25, 2001
Location: Alabama
Posts: 16,452
Cordite MD, as used since 1902, is approximately 65% guncotton (nitrocellulose), 30% nitroglycerine, 5% petroleum jelly (Vaseline.). (Another source gives it as 58-37-5). That is about as "nitro" as it gets.
Straight nitrocellulose powders are not "rougher on the rifle" and are actually less erosive to the bore. There were regulations about avoiding interchange of Mk VII and Mk VIIIz ammo because different wear characteristics could lead to bullet key holing and erratic flight, dangerous in overhead fire.
Jim Watson is offline  
Old October 1, 2020, 09:37 PM   #40
langenc
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 19, 2007
Location: Montmorency Co, MI
Posts: 1,445
May have been noted:

one of those early elephant hunters killed hundreds of elephants w/ 303.
langenc is offline  
Old October 2, 2020, 08:12 AM   #41
Jim Watson
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 25, 2001
Location: Alabama
Posts: 16,452
No doubt.
W.D.M. Bell was famous for shooting elephants with small bores. He kind of sneaked up over time, from .256 to .275 to .318. Might have been some .303s in there. He lived just long enough to see the .308 introduced and said it would make a good hunting rifle with proper bullets.

But in his day there were a lot of elephants and they had not been shot over much. They had not yet learned to fear and hate humans.
There were several pukka sahibs who got stepped on or eaten whilst attempting dangerous game with a small calibre, either cheap military full patch or a fashion statement like .22 Savage High Power or .280 Ross.
Jim Watson is offline  
Old October 3, 2020, 03:14 AM   #42
44 AMP
Staff
 
Join Date: March 11, 2006
Location: Upper US
Posts: 22,181
Quote:
one of those early elephant hunters killed hundreds of elephants w/ 303.
The earliest elephant hunters killed them with pointed sticks and sharp stones.

Like using a .303, not something I'd choose to do, given any choice at all...
__________________
All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.
44 AMP is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:53 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2020 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.08477 seconds with 8 queries