The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Hide > The Dave McCracken Memorial Shotgun Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old January 21, 2018, 10:59 AM   #1
BobWalters
Member
 
Join Date: January 20, 2018
Posts: 29
Help advice on new hunting shotgun

Looking for a new shotgun. My spending limit is right around $1,000(ish). Gun will be used for turkey, dove, quail, and ducks. I’d like it to be gas operated rather than recoil inertia or anything else.

First off, my first question here is I’ll be new to turkey hunting, so do I need or should I get a 3.5” gun or will 3” suffice? My aversion to 3.5” guns is the fact that I hear they don’t always reliably cycle the 2 3/4 light load quail shells very well.
Now on to the options:

Remington V3 (3”)
Beretta A300 (3”)
Winchester SX4 (3.5”)
Winchester SX3 (3”)
Remington Versa Max (3.5”)


I know the versa max runs plus 1,000 but I can get a good deal on it through my dealer. If I need 3.5” for turkey and or ducks then people can eliminate the V3 and A300. I’m new to these two hunting types so I don’t know how necessary 3.5” truly is. If 3” will easily suffice what I need or if it’s true that 3.5” shotguns won’t reliably cycle my light quail loads then scratch those off. Unless when comparing the versa max and V3 the versa max is a true better more reliable better stronger made shotgun.


EDIT: I know people are gonna suggest what fits me best so let me say and ask for help with that to, right now every single shotgun I own (5 models) are shotguns I inherited. Up until the last few weeks I never considered or even heard of this “fits you best” thing as I was just accustomed to opening the safe, grabbing an inherited shotgun out, and going on a hunt. I never once considered if it fit. Truth be told I don’t know how to even judge if a shotgun fits me or not.
BobWalters is offline  
Old January 21, 2018, 11:24 AM   #2
Rifletom
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 11, 2011
Location: So-Cal
Posts: 749
Of the five you've listed, I'd opt for the A300 or Win SXS3. I've never gone after turkey, so really can't help there. I have/use a Mossberg 930 Field I use for a little bit of trap[re. practice], and all my upland bird chasing with. But, those two I mentioned above would be hard to beat. Hope this helps.
Add: those two will reliably shoot any 2.75" or 3" shell, as does my 930.
Rifletom is offline  
Old January 21, 2018, 11:42 AM   #3
Virginian
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 11, 2012
Location: Williamsburg, Va.
Posts: 1,460
Since this is only going to be a popularity contest, I'd pick the V3. You don't need 3-1/2" for anything in my opinion.
__________________
What could have happened... did.

I do not trust Remington's dating service accuracy. If they were Match.com, you could end up with Nancy Pelosi.
Virginian is offline  
Old January 21, 2018, 12:05 PM   #4
Ricklin
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 22, 2008
Location: SW Washington state
Posts: 1,606
Clays?

Have you done any clay target shooting?

A shotgun that fits makes a real difference. Try some clay target shooting for good practice and to learn about fit and point-ability.

Comfort and speed both improve with a well fitting gun.
__________________
ricklin
Freedom is not free
Ricklin is offline  
Old January 21, 2018, 12:28 PM   #5
BigJimP
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 23, 2005
Posts: 13,190
In shotguns...your eye is the rear sight essentially .../ so "Fit" means does the gun Hit where you look.

The idea is --- go to a field or maybe a range...where you can use a "Pattern Board"...ot put up a big piece of cardboard. Put a black dot of about 3" diameter on board.../ screw in a Full choke ...step back to about 20 Yds...mount gun and fire 2 or 3 shells at target ( one at a time ). Make sure you mount the gun like you normally do...and see where it hits.../ if its high,or low...or left or right .../ you need some stock adjustment ( or maybe some coaching on fundamentals).

Some guns have adjustments that can be made to stocks / shims between receiver and stock / some have adjustable or parallel combs...etc..../ in general, the more adjustability a gun has the better ...so you can make it fit. Most of the lower end price options ...do not have adjustment. So take that into account before you buy.

Personally, I think a gun with a 3" chamber is plenty vs 3 1/2" ...remember shotshells are measured after they are fired --- not before. There are a lot of gas guns out there....in general, I prefer the Browning/Winchester system ...or the Beretta system. Some of the older models are just fine / like Browning Gold, etc...

Weight and barrel length are key issues on shotguns too...I'm a pretty big guy at 6'5" and 290 lbs...so I like a gun up around 8 lbs / lighter guns around 7 1/2 lbs tend to be "whippy" in my hands vs smooth on follow thru...and a 30" barrel in a semi-auto ...but I could adapt to a 28" barrel. If you go to a lighter gun, below 8 lbs, then go to the longest barrel you can get, like 30" probably, to give you a longer sight plane..and the longer barrel helps smooth out the swing on a light gun.
BigJimP is offline  
Old January 21, 2018, 04:14 PM   #6
BobWalters
Member
 
Join Date: January 20, 2018
Posts: 29
I don’t know if this is helpful information for how a gun should “fit” but I do remember noticing that when I handled the sx4 I had to lower my head down quite a bit to get a good look at the front sight. When I raised the gun more so I wouldn’t have to lower my head over so much, I got my sight and head and everything even and comfortable but part of the recoil pad was above my shoulder and not up against anything
BobWalters is offline  
Old January 21, 2018, 04:56 PM   #7
dahermit
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 28, 2006
Location: South Central Michigan...near
Posts: 5,943
Quote:
I don’t know if this is helpful information for how a gun should “fit” but I do remember noticing that when I handled the sx4 I had to lower my head down quite a bit to get a good look at the front sight.
Come on you shotgunners...tell him what is wrong with that.
dahermit is offline  
Old January 21, 2018, 05:03 PM   #8
BobWalters
Member
 
Join Date: January 20, 2018
Posts: 29
Thus far that’s the only shotgun I’ve held that did that.
BobWalters is offline  
Old January 21, 2018, 09:37 PM   #9
std7mag
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 23, 2013
Location: Central Taxylvania..
Posts: 3,114
Hopefully it's your last.

What is wrong with one of the 5 shotguns you already have?

I use a 20 ga shooting 2,3/4" Remington 6 shot.
std7mag is offline  
Old January 22, 2018, 12:31 PM   #10
BigJimP
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 23, 2005
Posts: 13,190
"Crabbing" into the stock / Pushing your cheek down into the comb so the gun feels like its in position / causing the recoil pad to come up above your shoulder....is fundamentally a bad idea... because it causes tension in your neck and upper shoulders which is not good for maintaining a smooth swing / it may cause you to overgrip or squeeze the stock too much, especially the forend, and may make you steer the gun vs swing smoothly and cut your follow thru short.

Its an indication that you need a higher comb on the gun ...in order to make it fit better.

Crabbing into the stock may also cause you to raise your muzzle up too...making the Point of Impact higher than you thought the gun was shooting for you.
--------------
There may be nothing wrong with the guns you have...if they fit. Try to get out to a local clay target range...especially around Skeet shooters.../ they have fundamentally figured out Gun Fit for a long time.
--------------
Like your family when I was a kid in the 50's...shotguns were passed down / and we shot what was there. What I didn't know then, was I figured out my favorite gun based on my results...( Killed more birds, gun didn't beat me up, it just felt good )...meaning the stock on that gun, fit me pretty well for the "outfit or clothing" I wore for that game bird. It was the combination of the height and angle of the comb ...and the thickness of the sweater, vest, etc that I wore to hunt that time of year / that got me in the "sweet spot" for that gun. Its also why some of the other guns felt clumsy, beat the stuffing out of me, etc...and never felt right.

Over time...I wanted to shoot all 4 seasons / I sure didn't want to wear a sweater and vest in 90 degree weather...so I figured out what stock dimensions fit me ( sometime in the 80's probably )...and it all came together for me...killed more birds in all seasons, shot better clay target scores, consistency went way up...no neck or shoulder pain even after 3 day tournaments and shooting 500 shells...

For me...I need a monte carlo style stock / all angled combs have only one sweet spot for me ...and on the monte carlo stock I need an adjustable comb. It so happens that on the Browning Citori models ( XS Skeet, XT Trap, etc with a parallel comb ( comb parallel to rib )...that those models fit me almost perfectly. But many if not all of the Citori's with angled combs do not fit me at all...
BigJimP is offline  
Old January 22, 2018, 12:55 PM   #11
BigJimP
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 23, 2005
Posts: 13,190
Had a circuit breaker blow in my home office....??...got kicked offline...

But the rest of my point is ...there is a lot to getting the right gun that suits you / not what suits me.

But, as an example...most of the Beretta over unders have a narrow throat, grip area, that is too small in my hands -- it doesn't feel right. The palm swell, thicker grip area, in many of the Browning Citori's feel better to me / to my buddy, he thinks Citori's feel like he's holding a big sewer pipe...( he's probably 6' and 150 lbs / I'm 6'5" and 290...)...overall weight of the gun, overall length of the gun, length of pull, style of recoil pad...all of that matters in selecting a gun to "Fit" you. Its not that Beretta makes a bad Over Under...but they don't fit me ...and the Browning Cynergy, in my view, is very much like the Beretta in terms of feel. My buddy likes a gun around 7 1/2 lbs, in 28" barrel, thinner grip area..../ I like an 8 1/2 lb gun, 30" or 32" barrels ...

You have to go thru the same process on semi-autos.

Ideally you want to shoot as many guns as you can ...before you buy / talk to a lot of guys at your local clay target fields / especially the shooters, that shoot registered targets or tournaments. Some of those guys are bird hunters too...

A semi-auto I like very much is the Beretta A400 Xcell parallel target or the multi target..../ and I know you said no Inertia guns, but I also like the Benelli Super Sport in a 12ga with 30" barrel because you have all kinds of adjustability with all 3 of those guns. But just figure out what gun "Fits you" and you'll be ok. I originally bought the Benelli Super Sport after a cycling accident, and I fractured my shoulder blade...doc said it was ok to shoot, but I couldn't stand the pain of shooting an 8 1/2 lb Over Under...so I went with the 7.2 lb Super Sport ...and it turns out, when my should is bad (after shoulder blade healed, shoulder was still bad - so its since been rebuilt, rotator cuff, torn bicep ...you have to pay for the sins of your youth ... !! ),,,and on days shoulder is bad...I still shoot the Benelli and leave the Brownings at home. Super Sport is also a gun I can travel with on airlines...its a one gun option, that does a lot of things well...hunt upland birds, shoot some clays, etc.../ and I don't have to take 3 guns to do all that.

one trick ...to check mount of your shotgun.../ start with a low gun ...look at a light switch on the wall / stare at it ...close your eyes & don't move your head / then push gun straight out from your body, then go straight up, then go straight back to your should ( don't crab into the comb )... once gun is set on shoulder and comfortable, without moving anything...open your eyes and see if you are still looking down rib at light switch. Try it 5 or 6 times...and see what you find. make sure your elbows are at the correct angles, etc..

If all this stuff is new to you .....go online or to a book store...and find some of the gun digest, paperback books, on shotgunning...most of them talk about gun fit, mounting the gun properly, etc...especially if you find one on Trap and Skeet. Do some online searches on "Shotgun Fit"...and see what pops up...

Good luck in your search...and don't forget to have fun with it !

Last edited by BigJimP; January 22, 2018 at 01:01 PM.
BigJimP is offline  
Old January 22, 2018, 12:59 PM   #12
BobWalters
Member
 
Join Date: January 20, 2018
Posts: 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by std7mag View Post
Hopefully it's your last.

What is wrong with one of the 5 shotguns you already have?

I use a 20 ga shooting 2,3/4" Remington 6 shot.
The problem with the guns that I have is

Mossberg 500, it’s the tactical version no choke 18.5” barrel
Savage 24d, it’s a single shot 20 gauge full choke(no steel shot)
Remington 11-48, auto 410 with full choke (no steel shot)
Franchi 48al, auto 12 with improved cylinder 2.75 chamber (no steel shot)
James brown, single shot 410 full choke
BobWalters is offline  
Old January 22, 2018, 01:01 PM   #13
FITASC
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 6, 2014
Posts: 5,563
Quote:
Quote:
I don’t know if this is helpful information for how a gun should “fit” but I do remember noticing that when I handled the sx4 I had to lower my head down quite a bit to get a good look at the front sight.
Come on you shotgunners...tell him what is wrong with that.
1 - don't fit yourself to the gun; have the gun fitted to you
2 - don't take a good look at the front sight, this is a shotgun, not a rifle (unless you're shooting slugs like a rifle). A shotgun is pointed, not aimed. The hardest concept, especially for handgunners, is NOT focusing on the front sight, but on your target
I am trying to get better with handguns; after 35 years of shotgunning, NOT looking at the front sight is what I know. Trying to do that with handguns, coupled with aging eyes, means lots of trial and error for me.
__________________
"I believe that people have a right to decide their own destinies; people own themselves. I also believe that, in a democracy, government exists because (and only so long as) individual citizens give it a 'temporary license to exist'—in exchange for a promise that it will behave itself. In a democracy, you own the government—it doesn't own you."- Frank Zappa
FITASC is offline  
Old January 22, 2018, 03:43 PM   #14
T. O'Heir
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 13, 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 12,120
"...need 3.5” for turkey and or ducks..." You don't need 3.5" ammo for either or anything else you plan on hunting. What you need is a barrel with changeable chokes.
"...I had to lower my head..." Stock is wrong. Comb should be higher, I think. LOP might be wrong too. You need to be able to shoulder the thing and have your eye right in line with the bead. Tested by trying it with your eyes closed, shoulder and open. What do you see? Applies to rifles too.
__________________
Spelling and grammar count!
T. O'Heir is offline  
Old January 22, 2018, 04:50 PM   #15
BobWalters
Member
 
Join Date: January 20, 2018
Posts: 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by T. O'Heir View Post
"...need 3.5” for turkey and or ducks..." You don't need 3.5" ammo for either or anything else you plan on hunting. What you need is a barrel with changeable chokes.
"...I had to lower my head..." Stock is wrong. Comb should be higher, I think. LOP might be wrong too. You need to be able to shoulder the thing and have your eye right in line with the bead. Tested by trying it with your eyes closed, shoulder and open. What do you see? Applies to rifles too.
So based on my assessment the SX4 either would have to be adjusted or simply just isn’t for me?
BobWalters is offline  
Old January 22, 2018, 04:51 PM   #16
BobWalters
Member
 
Join Date: January 20, 2018
Posts: 29
My budget is 1000ish as stated, HOWEVER I checked online with my dealer today and 3 models of Benelli’s are actually more affordable than I thought. I know I said gas only and these are inertia, but how do people feel about these 3 Benelli’s vs the guns I’ve already listed?

M2 field (3”) $1240
Vinci (3”) $1230
Plain walnut Montefeltro (3”) $880

Whatever I get I’d rather have camo synthetic honestly, which is just a personal appearance preference and nothing more, but that Montefeltro comes in at a little under $900 I walnut which I prefer over just plain black synthetic.

Let me just add that if these benelli’s are not 200-$500 better shotguns than the A300 or V3 then I’m gonna forget these. Basically I don’t wanna pay 200-500 to basically have a shotgun marked Benelli and not beretta or Remington and nothing more.
BobWalters is offline  
Old January 22, 2018, 06:02 PM   #17
BigJimP
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 23, 2005
Posts: 13,190
Of the guns you are looking at ...the Vinci probably has the most adjustment of the group. So I would recommend you buy that - since you apparently do not know yet what stock dimensions ( drop at comb, drop at heel, lenght of pull, etc )..you need for the gun to fit you.

Benelli inertia guns - that have the comfort tech system in them / will give you about 20% less recoil that a non comfort tech system equipped gun -- and no wood stocked guns will have the comfort tech system in them.

Of the gas guns you mentioned...since you had to "crab" into the SX4, take it off your list. I think the SX3 has a little less drop at comb ...so check it out...or go with the Beretta. The lease desireable gas gun on your list would be the Remington in my view - and you don't need a 3.5" gun in my view.
---------------
Focus on adjustability...buy the gun that has the most adjustability ( to adjust drop at comb, drop at heel, cast on or off, length of pull, etc ).. in a 12ga, 3" chamber and you'll probably be fine.
BigJimP is offline  
Old January 22, 2018, 06:09 PM   #18
BobWalters
Member
 
Join Date: January 20, 2018
Posts: 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJimP View Post
Of the guns you are looking at ...the Vinci probably has the most adjustment of the group. So I would recommend you buy that - since you apparently do not know yet what stock dimensions ( drop at comb, drop at heel, lenght of pull, etc )..you need for the gun to fit you.

Benelli inertia guns - that have the comfort tech system in them / will give you about 20% less recoil that a non comfort tech system equipped gun -- and no wood stocked guns will have the comfort tech system in them.

Of the gas guns you mentioned...since you had to "crab" into the SX4, take it off your list. I think the SX3 has a little less drop at comb ...so check it out...or go with the Beretta. The lease desireable gas gun on your list would be the Remington in my view - and you don't need a 3.5" gun in my view.
---------------
Focus on adjustability...buy the gun that has the most adjustability ( to adjust drop at comb, drop at heel, cast on or off, length of pull, etc ).. in a 12ga, 3" chamber and you'll probably be fine.
You don’t like the V3? I honestly have yet to hear someone say they don’t like that gun. What’s the recoil difference between inertia and gas, guesstimate percentage would do? Only 12 gauges I’ve fired are a mossberg 500 pump tactical from the early 90’s which to me anyway kicks like a mule and a Franchi 48al from the 1960’s which after a full day of quail hunting usually leaves me bruised up as well.
BobWalters is offline  
Old January 22, 2018, 06:25 PM   #19
BigJimP
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 23, 2005
Posts: 13,190
I don't care for any of the Remington models...internally, they are not a quality gun in my opinion. Remington semi-autos were in their prime...many years ago when the Rem 1100's and 11-87's were pretty new. They had their run...but its over in my view. Yes, you will find fans of them....but there won't be many, if any, on the clay target fields.

In terms of recoil --- Inertia with comfort tech ...and gas are about the same in my view. Inertia without comfort tech is probably 15% more than gas. All "fixed breech" guns like a pump or semi-auto will give you more recoil than any semi-auto where the action absorbs some of the recoil energy essentially ( like a revolver vs a semi-auto handgun ). When you pick a gun ....looking at the weight of gun is a big factor in recoil...1 lb in weight for a given shell...is about 15% of recoil. A lighter gun is easier to carry in the field...but you will get more recoil.

Bruising in your shoulder is probably a result of poor fundamentals on your mount or as you execute a shot ...or the gun may not fit ( or both ). Without watching you shoot...its hard to tell...but all the more reason to get a gun with adjustment - and work on your fundamentals. Most of these Tactical Shotguns...don't fit most shooters well...so its surprising it beat you up. The Franchi you have is probably beating you up because its light ...or again fundamentals...you may be pushing it around / away from shoulder, etc as your are firing at quail ..losing contact with comb or recoil pad..and its beating you up. You could try adding some "lead golf club tape" 8 oz inside forend ..and 8 oz inside stock / make sure you mark center balance point on gun ( masking tape on side of receiver - and find balance point as you hold it - mark it )...and position lead tape, so you don't change the balance point. I often add 1 lb to my Benelli Super Sport so it feels better and I swing it more smoothly...

Since my guns fit...I can shoot heavy loads ( 1 1/8oz, 1300 fps ) in an 8.5 lb gun all day for 3 days with no bruising and no shoulder pain ...( 500 shells or so easily )...and that's even with only half a bicep and a rebuilt shoulder. But 90% of the time in a 12ga, I shoot a 1 oz load of 8's at around 1225 fps as my "go to" load for Skeet, Sporting Clays and 5 stand .../ and shooting 1000 shells in 3 days is no big deal.

Last edited by BigJimP; January 22, 2018 at 06:37 PM.
BigJimP is offline  
Old January 22, 2018, 06:55 PM   #20
BobWalters
Member
 
Join Date: January 20, 2018
Posts: 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJimP View Post
I don't care for any of the Remington models...internally, they are not a quality gun in my opinion. Remington semi-autos were in their prime...many years ago when the Rem 1100's and 11-87's were pretty new. They had their run...but its over in my view. Yes, you will find fans of them....but there won't be many, if any, on the clay target fields.

In terms of recoil --- Inertia with comfort tech ...and gas are about the same in my view. Inertia without comfort tech is probably 15% more than gas. All "fixed breech" guns like a pump or semi-auto will give you more recoil than any semi-auto where the action absorbs some of the recoil energy essentially ( like a revolver vs a semi-auto handgun ). When you pick a gun ....looking at the weight of gun is a big factor in recoil...1 lb in weight for a given shell...is about 15% of recoil. A lighter gun is easier to carry in the field...but you will get more recoil.

Bruising in your shoulder is probably a result of poor fundamentals on your mount or as you execute a shot ...or the gun may not fit ( or both ). Without watching you shoot...its hard to tell...but all the more reason to get a gun with adjustment - and work on your fundamentals. Most of these Tactical Shotguns...don't fit most shooters well...so its surprising it beat you up. The Franchi you have is probably beating you up because its light ...or again fundamentals...you may be pushing it around / away from shoulder, etc as your are firing at quail ..losing contact with comb or recoil pad..and its beating you up. You could try adding some "lead golf club tape" 8 oz inside forend ..and 8 oz inside stock / make sure you mark center balance point on gun ( masking tape on side of receiver - and find balance point as you hold it - mark it )...and position lead tape, so you don't change the balance point. I often add 1 lb to my Benelli Super Sport so it feels better and I swing it more smoothly...

Since my guns fit...I can shoot heavy loads ( 1 1/8oz, 1300 fps ) in an 8.5 lb gun all day for 3 days with no bruising and no shoulder pain ...( 500 shells or so easily )...and that's even with only half a bicep and a rebuilt shoulder. But 90% of the time in a 12ga, I shoot a 1 oz load of 8's at around 1225 fps as my "go to" load for Skeet, Sporting Clays and 5 stand .../ and shooting 1000 shells in 3 days is no big deal.
That Franchi doesn’t even have a recoil pad, it’s just has a plastic plate on the end of the stock that is super thin. No rubber padding at all. And it is light, I’d say 7ish pounds empty. The V3 praise that I have come across is massive. Especially from Randy Wakeman. Mostly in the hunting community both waterfowl and upland people seem to think it’s the best on the market today for the price.
BobWalters is offline  
Old January 22, 2018, 07:02 PM   #21
BigJimP
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 23, 2005
Posts: 13,190
Ultimately you should do what you want / just remember most amateur sporting clays shooters will shoot more shells in a month between practice & a tournament or two in a month...( probably 800 shells...than most hunters will shoot in 10 years.

Sporting clays fields are a good place to learn whether shotguns hold up long term ....
BigJimP is offline  
Old January 22, 2018, 09:04 PM   #22
BobWalters
Member
 
Join Date: January 20, 2018
Posts: 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJimP View Post
Ultimately you should do what you want / just remember most amateur sporting clays shooters will shoot more shells in a month between practice & a tournament or two in a month...( probably 800 shells...than most hunters will shoot in 10 years.

Sporting clays fields are a good place to learn whether shotguns hold up long term ....
I totally hear you there. Most of my hunting friends here local will only run through about 3-4K shells per year. Me personally I’d say an average year I might hit 1,000 shells.
BobWalters is offline  
Old January 23, 2018, 01:19 PM   #23
BobWalters
Member
 
Join Date: January 20, 2018
Posts: 29
Got another question, do inertia driven shotguns like the benellis handle going back and forth between light 1oz 2.75” shells to the 3” hard hitting shells flawlessly like the gas guns will or do the inertia ones occasionally have any feed issues? Do you have to change anything in the gun to go back and forth between the loads like I do my old Franchi?
BobWalters is offline  
Old January 23, 2018, 01:39 PM   #24
BigJimP
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 23, 2005
Posts: 13,190
No you don't change anything in an Inertia gun ( at least Benelli )...for light target loads vs heavier field loads.

My Benelli Super Sport 12 ga...has always run well on any load ..7/8 oz , 1 oz, etc ..as long as its velocity is 1200 fps. 2 3/4" vs 3" makes no difference either. But 90% of the time I run 2 3/4" shells in mine...for clays, quail, etc.

My go to load, I reload, in 12ga has long been a 1oz load of 8's at 1225 fps...for Skeet, Sporting, etc. ...and I shoot the same shell in my O/U's.

Benelli & Franchi have been owned by Beretta for probably 10 yrs or more...but based on my experience the Franchi's have always had issues / and I don't think the internals are the same. But other than a couple of acquaintances that bought Franchi's, I don't see many around.

I also have a Benelli Super Sport in a 20ga, 28" barrel...its right around 6 lbs ...and I have it to train some of my younger grandkids ...and its run well on any load 3/4oz and 7/8 oz as long as they are 1200 fps too.

My Benelli's shoot way cleaner than gas guns..I also have a Browning Silver series, Hunter model...for grandkids too ..and its a decent light weight gun ( 12ga )..and runs fine ...but the 10 - 13 yr old grandkids ( boys & girls ) all like the Benelli better..it looks cooler or something...
BigJimP is offline  
Old January 23, 2018, 02:35 PM   #25
BigJimP
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 23, 2005
Posts: 13,190
A couple of points...to me Hunting shotguns and Sporting Clays shotguns( and Skeet and 5 Stand shotguns ) to me have very similar characteristics....( but all of the big shotgun companies are "marketing" Skeet guns, Sporting Clays guns, Hunting guns --- and Trap guns...so it gets very confusing.

In my view ...Skeet,Sporting Clays, 5 stand ...all have birds that fly quickly left to right - similar to Quail as an example .../ so I tend to want an 8.5 lb Over Under ( like a Browning Citori XS Skeet model, 12ga, 30" barrels and screw in chokes). If I go to a semi-auto, if I wanted a gas gun, I would go with one of the Beretta or Browning/Winchester models. If I want an Inertia gun, I will go with the Benelli Super Sport, 12ga, 30" barrel @ 7.2 lbs its very light - but longer barrel helps smooth out my swing so I don't "slap" at a bird.

Clay Target fields for the last 30 yrs ...have been dominated by Over Unders partly because you have 2 chokes you can change / partly because if you can get a shell, even a distorted one, into the chamber and close the gun it will probably fire. Semi-Autos back in the 50's and 60's when I was a kid -- were Jam O Matics...they didn't run very well ( Auto 5's, etc )...lots of guys, cops, etc said the same thing about semi-auto handguns, even 1911's, and cops in my family carried S&W revolvers in .357 Mag.

It was probably about 20 yrs ago...when sporting clays got real popular / that Beretta had a new gas semi auto on market...and they sold like hotcakes to guys that wanted a gun that would run reliably, they didn't want to clean them much, throw them away around 3 seasons or about 60,000 shells and buy another one. They were the right weight, had some adjustabiliy, were priced right, etc.... Beretta has continued to evolve in their gas gun lineup. Beretta eclipsed Remington, Browning and others in the semi auto market.

Benelli came along about the same time..in waterfowl market...and really caught fire with the Inertia guns. They built a great reputation in that field.

Probably 15 yrs ago...Browning was bought by FN, they later bought Winchester...and Browning/Winchester started to develop some gas guns, Gold, etc to compete with Beretta. Browning/Winchester have continued to evolve...with Browning taking the lead in shotgun market for FN, with Winchester now at a lower price point than the similar Browning models..but sharing their new gas system, chokes, barrels, etc../ and Browning - Win are making some solid semi-autos again...with some new models.

( and everybody else in semi-auto market is out there now...Remington, etc..but they are still playing catchup ...trying to hit some price points where they can compete in my view).

There are more semi-autos on the market now ...for Hunting and Clays because of it ...from $800 - $2,000 or so ...
----------------------
Over Under market ...in clays and Hunting has been long dominated by Beretta and Browning.../ Browning developed some of the first screw in choke systems in their Citori line / sure there are other high end O/U's out there too ( Perazzi, Krieghoff, etc and some new ones, Blazer, etc )..and as Browning & Beretta continued to fight over market...they developed more and more models...to the point now where Browning probably makes over 25 models in Citori line and another 25 in Cynergy line...and Beretta has at least 25 in their line of guns. ( Browning doesn't make anything ...their shotguns are made by Miroku ...)...they're a marketing company.

Some other players in O/U's are other there too ...at cheaper price points / Mossberg, Remington, Ruger, etc...but most of them are maybe 50,000 shell life guns.../ where most of the Brownings I own, even the older basic Citori field grade guns are all over 500,000 shells with no issues.
-----------------
Semi auto gas guns...and Benelli Inertia guns...are just plain solid guns in my view...hard to go wrong / but you have to figure out what you need to "Fit" you.

In the Citori / Cynergy line of guns, I own about a dozen of them now, there are only 4 or 5 models that "Fit" me....( Citori XS Skeet is now out of catalog / replaced by one of the 725 models I think ) but its my O/U of choice for Skeet, Sporting, 5 stand and upland bird hunting. I have individual guns in a 12ga, 20ga, 28ga and a .410 ...( 20, 28 and .410 are all built by Browning ( MIroku actually) on the 20ga receiver ). They are all in 30" barrels...
--------------
Trap is a very different game than other clay games. Less left to right movement..more restricted flight ( kind of like Pheasant ).

So for Trap, I prefer a 10 lb gun in an O/U ....Browning Citori XT Trap, 12ga, 32" barrels. If I want to just shoot singles, I can shoot the XT....but I also have one of the single barrel, break open Brownings a BT-100 in a 32" barrel...and some guys go to a 34" barrel on a BT 100 or a BT 99 single barrel break open. Heavier gun, with longer barrels, for Trap ...helps keep swing smooth ..with targets flying in more restricted angles than Skeet. A heavy Trap gun, like the XT Trap, really does feel like a big old Sewer Pipe...on a Skeet or Sporting Clays field.

Anyway .....that's how I view this stuff evolving over the last 50 yrs or so.
( first time I saw a regulation Skeet field was about 1972 --- and it became real obvious, real quick, while I had killed a lot of Quail, Pheasant and Grouse...with pump guns, a bolt action gun, an old Browning O/U, even an Auto 5...I had no clue how to compete with those guys ). It took a lot of practice, some understanding of Fit, a good coach to help me out.../ it wasn't until the mid 90's or so when Sporting Clays came around...that I got interested again in Skeet -- and it really helped me improve my field shooting and my sporting clays --- and then I really understood "Fit" when I started hanging out with some serious Skeet shooters.

Last edited by BigJimP; January 23, 2018 at 02:42 PM.
BigJimP is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:01 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2020 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.15562 seconds with 10 queries