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Old August 31, 2020, 07:46 AM   #1
GaryED50
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7.65 - 65 rifle round what is it?

Hi

Going through my dads old stock of rifle rounds I found 10 rounds that are marked on the base 7.65 - 65


I've never heard of this caliber has anyone here?

Gary

Last edited by GaryED50; August 31, 2020 at 05:32 PM.
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Old August 31, 2020, 09:16 AM   #2
Jim Watson
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It is not marked 7.65 X 65, it is marked 7.65 - 65.

Most likely 7.65x53 Argentine, the FM standing for Fábrica Militar de Cartuchos de San Lorenzo, San Lorenzo, Argentina and made in 1965.

I can't find what the SF stands for but it is a standard marking.

I googled several references to soft point bullets. Is yours?
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Old August 31, 2020, 09:18 AM   #3
ligonierbill
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I think it's an old Mauser cartridge: 7.65-6.5. Check the case length. Bet it's not 65mm.
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Old August 31, 2020, 09:36 AM   #4
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My google-fu tells me it is 7.65X65 Belgian, and it looks like it was chambered in some FN Express Double rifles.

Quote:
Notes: This rifle is an improved version of the old Browning Superposed shotgun, turned into a rifle. It is an over-and-under design, and has the addition of a reduced-wear breech and a top-lever system for selection of the barrel to be fired. Most of these rifles are built with expensive woods and intricate engraving on the action. Because of the design of the weapon, only one barrel may be fired at a time.
I can't really tell but it looks like a rimmed cartridge in the picture. I'd start trying to research double rifles and see if you can find more info. There really isn't much that I can find just by googling the cartridge. I imagine it'll be close to the .30-06 in ballistics just based on the case dimensions.
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Old August 31, 2020, 09:59 AM   #5
GaryED50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Watson View Post
It is not marked 7.65 X 65, it is marked 7.65 - 65.

Most likely 7.65x53 Argentine, the FM standing for Fábrica Militar de Cartuchos de San Lorenzo, San Lorenzo, Argentina and made in 1965.

I can't find what the SF stands for but it is a standard marking.

I googled several references to soft point bullets. Is yours?
Yes its a soft point

Gary
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Old August 31, 2020, 10:02 AM   #6
Jim Watson
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I found a picture of a box of that ammo, said it was 15 rounds of soft point on stripper clips. Interesting. I saw speculation that it was military surplus with the full jackets replaced with soft point but nothing concrete.
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Old August 31, 2020, 12:20 PM   #7
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Measure the case length. If it comes up to 53mm (approx) its probably 7.65mm Belgian Mauser. Also known as the 7.65mm Argentine Mauser.

Soft point hunting ammo was made and stripper clips are for the Mauser rifle. so entirely possible soft point bullets put in by the factory, or later by some user.
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Old August 31, 2020, 01:56 PM   #8
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Interarms imported a lot of Argentine 7.65x54 Mauser ammo, and reloaded them with SP bullets for the civilian market.
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Old August 31, 2020, 02:11 PM   #9
GaryED50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 44 AMP View Post
Measure the case length. If it comes up to 53mm (approx) its probably 7.65mm Belgian Mauser. Also known as the 7.65mm Argentine Mauser.

Soft point hunting ammo was made and stripper clips are for the Mauser rifle. so entirely possible soft point bullets put in by the factory, or later by some user.
I never learned how to read the metric side but here it is
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Old August 31, 2020, 02:22 PM   #10
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Looks about right, in English units the length should be 2.1" (max case length) and finding unfired rounds with slightly shorter than max length brass is very common.

My vote would is for 7.65 Argentine Mauser.

Btw, it uses the same bullet as the .303 Brit, 7.62x554R Russian and 7.7mm Japanese.
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Old August 31, 2020, 05:15 PM   #11
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The FM SF head stamp means: Fábrica Militar de San Francisco, San Francisco, Argentina according to Cartridgecollectors.org.

Last edited by SHR970; August 31, 2020 at 08:48 PM.
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Old August 31, 2020, 05:27 PM   #12
Jim Watson
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Look at the size, look at the ballistics.
.308 nearly 70 years early.
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Old September 1, 2020, 05:12 AM   #13
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Very cool !!
Do you still have the rifle too?
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Old September 1, 2020, 09:16 AM   #14
GaryED50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kymasabe View Post
Very cool !!
Do you still have the rifle too?
Nope Rifle long gone
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Old September 16, 2020, 04:58 AM   #15
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1889: 7.65x54 Mauser, [email protected],460fps

1954: 7.62x51 NATO, [email protected],600fps

65 years of cartridge development between them. Not all of the world's armies had fully converted to smokeless powder in 1889; the 7.65 is a dinosaur. But it can still hold its own. DWM's engineers done good.

--TRX (handloading 7.65 since 1983)
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Old September 18, 2020, 12:10 AM   #16
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And Watson, bring your......rifle?

Watson, nailing it, post #2.
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Old September 25, 2020, 01:17 PM   #17
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Like Jim Watson says, it's a 7.65 X 53 Argentine(same thing as the Argentine rimless, 7.65 mm Argentine, 7.65×53mm Belgian Mauser or 7.65 mm Belgian) made in 1965. Use a .311" bullet just like a .303 Brit.
FMSF is Fábrica Militar de San Francisco, San Francisco, Argentina.
http://cartridgecollectors.org/?page=headstampcodes#F
Having but one cartridge can be considered a reason to buy a rifle for it.
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Old September 25, 2020, 08:22 PM   #18
big al hunter
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Quote:
I never learned how to read the metric side but here it is
That ruler doesn't have metric on it. One side is 1/8 inch marks. The other side is 1/32 inch marks. Metric and imperial don't line up that nicely.

But that looks like my father-in-law's 7.65 Argentine. I agree with everyone else.
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Old September 26, 2020, 01:29 PM   #19
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That's a good round. According to Ken Waters' Pet loads book, the round matches the .308 at 150gr and shoots better than the .308 for heavier bullets. It ranks somewhere betweent he .308 and 30-06 in his opinion
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Old September 26, 2020, 03:59 PM   #20
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I had a Mauser for 7.65 Belgian. It wasn’t a 98, maybe 91? I loaded a few for it, still have the die set.
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