Barrel… not lead, then what could it be?

Ignacio49 · June 14, 2019, 03:02 PM

This is an AMT Hardballer barrel. At first glance I thought it was lead in the barrel…Then I realized it was only in the rifling lands/hills, nothing in the grooves/valleys….. very strange. Well, I tried to get rid of the lead but couldn’t. Bronze brush, pod cleaning scrub pad, Lewis Lead removal (just the fabric, around cleaning brush) with some Hopes 9… even 1000 grit sandpaper.. Nothing. I was very gentle when trying to remove, as this is a friend’s barrel, not mine. I even tried a dentist pick ..nada.
I then took pics for closer inspection and realized this was not lead in the lands. I believe it is abrasion. Appreciate your comments.

Bill DeShivs · June 14, 2019, 04:37 PM

The barrel was poorly machined before it was rifled.
Fortunately, any 1911 barrel will replace it.

David R · June 14, 2019, 04:44 PM

Beautiful pictures. Looks like a bad rifling tool. broach or what ever they used.

David

Sent from my SM-T900 using Tapatalk

fastbolt · June 14, 2019, 04:56 PM

Agree. Appears to be chatter marks when rifling cut with a dull cutter. Nasty.

Jim Watson · June 14, 2019, 09:16 PM

Reamer marks across the lands. Grooves are smooth.
Does it shoot ok? Do the marks pick up fouling?

Ignacio49 · June 14, 2019, 09:33 PM

Thanks

[QUOTE=David R;6725627]Beautiful pictures. ....

Ignacio49 · June 14, 2019, 09:37 PM

Previous owner shot it, but I do not know him and don't have any related information.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Watson

.......
Does it shoot ok? Do the marks pick up fouling?

Bill DeShivs · June 14, 2019, 11:47 PM

The rifling cuts are smooth. The lands are rough.

FrankenMauser · June 15, 2019, 12:17 PM

The bore was drilled with a dull rock, before rifling.

Nodak1858 · June 15, 2019, 12:44 PM

Wow, nice pictures, I can never get bore pictures to turn out worth a darn.
I'd say shoot it and see how it does, might be decent to plink with

T. O'Heir · June 15, 2019, 01:00 PM

"...chatter marks..." Yep. Manufacturing defect. Lapping the thing might help. It's not something for the impatient though. Time consuming. Way faster to fit another barrel.
However, barrels that are pitted from rust can still shoot reasonably well. Did the guy work up a load or is he shooting factory?
1,127px × 1,055px is too big. Please reduce the size of your pictures.

Ignacio49 · June 15, 2019, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T. O'Heir

"... Did the guy work up a load or is he shooting factory?
1,127px × 1,055px is too big. Please reduce the size of your pictures.

My friend just got it a week ago and has not shot it yet .... and probably won't, as he is not happy with this barrel and will sell the gun, in anticipation to the possible finding of more "unpleasant surprises" which would confirm Harballers sad reputation.

**JohnKSa** · June 15, 2019, 02:33 PM

Tool chatter/machining marks from when the barrel was made. It will foul more than usual but will probably shoot just fine.

LineStretcher · June 15, 2019, 03:01 PM

That's one of the worst I've ever seen. There's no chance that will ever smooth out and it will copper foul quick. Good choice to get rid of it. If it was mine, I'd remove the barrel and make something out of it that doesn't involve bullets.

**JohnKSa** · June 15, 2019, 07:43 PM

It's a semi-auto handgun. Most people can't shoot a pistol well enough to challenge the accuracy of any halfway-decent pistol. Besides, even with the worse than normal jacket fouling that will result from the roughness, it will probably be quite accurate.

If it were a rifle, or maybe a single-shot hunting handgun, then the rifling condition would be something worth worrying about. Or maybe for a person who is going to spend a lot of time gazing into the barrel or worrying about getting every last bit of jacket fouling out after a shooting session.

In a semi-auto pistol owned by someone who isn't going to obsess over the smoothness of the lands or getting it perfectly clean every time it's shot, I doubt this will be any issue at all.

tarhealcracker · June 16, 2019, 08:13 AM

Why has nobody mentioned returning the gun to the OEM or distributor? Even if one isn't the original owner, a manufacturing defect such as this warrants a new barrel. What could it hurt to give em a call ?

Ricklin · June 16, 2019, 08:31 AM

Cuz AMT left the building years ago.

stinkeypete · June 16, 2019, 11:28 AM

The most important question is "How does it shoot?"

Before jumping to any conclusions, take it to the range and put out some proper targets and see how it shoots offhand and from sandbags.

It may foul with copper or lead, but then again.... TRY IT. Get back to us with your conclusions after you put a box of ammo down the spout.

wingman · June 16, 2019, 11:56 AM

I own a Springfield loaded 1911 several ago I was using moly coating, cleaned after each use but the barrel looked worse each time I cleaned yet it was still accurate, I contacted SA told them what I was using, sent it in they replaced barrel with a new match grade barrel said my old barrel was pitted. I never used moly again although many continue to use coatings with good results. My point is you never know what the previous owner has used in that particular gun.
This post is not condemning folks using coatings but just passing along my experience.

Bill DeShivs · June 16, 2019, 01:08 PM

The AMT Hardballer is a basic 1911-style gun.
When they were made, machining stainless steel for guns was not exactly an art.
Just buy a new 1911 barrel and put it in the gun. Simple.

FrankenMauser · June 16, 2019, 02:59 PM

I agree.
Fix it, don't flush it.

Quote:

Why has nobody mentioned returning the gun to the OEM or distributor? Even if one isn't the original owner, a manufacturing defect such as this warrants a new barrel. What could it hurt to give em a call ?

Getting 'warranty work' done on an 1860 Wesson rifle would probably be easier than getting AMT to replace the barrel.
You'd also need a Tyme Musheen.

dgludwig · June 16, 2019, 06:05 PM

As others have said, even though the rifling (lands) are rough doesn't necessarily mean the pistol will be inaccurate. But those "chatter" marks will likely trap all manner of lead and copper and will be very difficult to clean thoroughly. Personally, I have better things to do than scrubbing a barrel more than I should have to.
Follow Bill DeShivs and LineStretcher's advice and replace the barrel.

**Aguila Blanca** · June 16, 2019, 08:09 PM

The problem with replacing the barrel is that the pistol is an AMT Hardballer, and those were notoriously "iffy" in the quality control department anyway. IMHO, if it were just about any other brand I would agree that it makes sense to replace the barrel. With an AMT Hardballer, I don't think so.

Cut your losses, sell the gun, and buy a better pistol.

DnPRK · June 17, 2019, 01:24 AM

Gun barrels are supposed to be reamed to the proper bore diameter before the rifling is cut.

Reamers and labor cost money. AMT probably skipped that step and went straight to the rifleing broach to save money.

Ignacio49 · June 17, 2019, 06:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aguila Blanca

Cut your losses, sell the gun, and buy a better pistol.

Agree!!!

June 14, 2019, 03:02 PM	#1
Ignacio49 Senior Member Join Date: September 17, 2002 Posts: 221	Barrel… not lead, then what could it be? This is an AMT Hardballer barrel. At first glance I thought it was lead in the barrel…Then I realized it was only in the rifling lands/hills, nothing in the grooves/valleys….. very strange. Well, I tried to get rid of the lead but couldn’t. Bronze brush, pod cleaning scrub pad, Lewis Lead removal (just the fabric, around cleaning brush) with some Hopes 9… even 1000 grit sandpaper.. Nothing. I was very gentle when trying to remove, as this is a friend’s barrel, not mine. I even tried a dentist pick ..nada. I then took pics for closer inspection and realized this was not lead in the lands. I believe it is abrasion. Appreciate your comments. Last edited by Ignacio49; June 15, 2019 at 02:04 PM.

June 14, 2019, 04:37 PM	#2
Bill DeShivs Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 10,986	The barrel was poorly machined before it was rifled. Fortunately, any 1911 barrel will replace it. __________________ Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler www.billdeshivs.com

June 14, 2019, 04:56 PM	#4
fastbolt Senior Member Join Date: June 9, 2002 Location: northern CA for a little while longer Posts: 1,931	Agree. Appears to be chatter marks when rifling cut with a dull cutter. Nasty. __________________ Retired LE - firearms instructor & armorer

June 14, 2019, 11:47 PM	#8
Bill DeShivs Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 10,986	The rifling cuts are smooth. The lands are rough. __________________ Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler www.billdeshivs.com

June 15, 2019, 12:17 PM	#9
FrankenMauser Senior Member Join Date: August 25, 2008 Location: In the valley above the plain Posts: 13,424	The bore was drilled with a dull rock, before rifling. __________________ Don't even try it. It's even worse than the internet would lead you to believe.

June 14, 2019, 04:44 PM	#3
David R Senior Member Join Date: January 2, 2015 Location: The swamps of WNY Posts: 753	Beautiful pictures. Looks like a bad rifling tool. broach or what ever they used. David Sent from my SM-T900 using Tapatalk

June 14, 2019, 09:16 PM	#5
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,543	Reamer marks across the lands. Grooves are smooth. Does it shoot ok? Do the marks pick up fouling?

June 14, 2019, 09:33 PM	#6
Ignacio49 Senior Member Join Date: September 17, 2002 Posts: 221	Thanks [QUOTE=David R;6725627]Beautiful pictures. ....

June 15, 2019, 12:44 PM	#10
Nodak1858 Senior Member Join Date: September 7, 2009 Location: N. Dakota Posts: 435	Wow, nice pictures, I can never get bore pictures to turn out worth a darn. I'd say shoot it and see how it does, might be decent to plink with __________________ We've all heard that a million monkeys banging on a million typewriters will eventually reproduce the entire works of Shakespeare. Now, thanks to the Internet, we know this is not true.

June 15, 2019, 01:00 PM	#11
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	"...chatter marks..." Yep. Manufacturing defect. Lapping the thing might help. It's not something for the impatient though. Time consuming. Way faster to fit another barrel. However, barrels that are pitted from rust can still shoot reasonably well. Did the guy work up a load or is he shooting factory? 1,127px × 1,055px is too big. Please reduce the size of your pictures. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

June 15, 2019, 02:33 PM	#13
JohnKSa Staff Join Date: February 12, 2001 Location: DFW Area Posts: 24,993	Tool chatter/machining marks from when the barrel was made. It will foul more than usual but will probably shoot just fine. __________________ Do you know about the TEXAS State Rifle Association?

June 15, 2019, 03:01 PM	#14
LineStretcher Senior Member Join Date: June 14, 2018 Posts: 619	That's one of the worst I've ever seen. There's no chance that will ever smooth out and it will copper foul quick. Good choice to get rid of it. If it was mine, I'd remove the barrel and make something out of it that doesn't involve bullets.

June 15, 2019, 07:43 PM	#15
JohnKSa Staff Join Date: February 12, 2001 Location: DFW Area Posts: 24,993	It's a semi-auto handgun. Most people can't shoot a pistol well enough to challenge the accuracy of any halfway-decent pistol. Besides, even with the worse than normal jacket fouling that will result from the roughness, it will probably be quite accurate. If it were a rifle, or maybe a single-shot hunting handgun, then the rifling condition would be something worth worrying about. Or maybe for a person who is going to spend a lot of time gazing into the barrel or worrying about getting every last bit of jacket fouling out after a shooting session. In a semi-auto pistol owned by someone who isn't going to obsess over the smoothness of the lands or getting it perfectly clean every time it's shot, I doubt this will be any issue at all. __________________ Do you know about the TEXAS State Rifle Association?

June 16, 2019, 08:13 AM	#16
tarhealcracker Member Join Date: July 8, 2018 Posts: 59	Why has nobody mentioned returning the gun to the OEM or distributor? Even if one isn't the original owner, a manufacturing defect such as this warrants a new barrel. What could it hurt to give em a call ?

June 16, 2019, 08:31 AM	#17
Ricklin Senior Member Join Date: February 22, 2008 Location: SW Washington state Posts: 2,016	Cuz AMT left the building years ago. __________________ ricklin Freedom is not free

June 16, 2019, 11:28 AM	#18
stinkeypete Senior Member Join Date: July 22, 2010 Location: Madison, Wisconsin Posts: 1,293	The most important question is "How does it shoot?" Before jumping to any conclusions, take it to the range and put out some proper targets and see how it shoots offhand and from sandbags. It may foul with copper or lead, but then again.... TRY IT. Get back to us with your conclusions after you put a box of ammo down the spout.

June 16, 2019, 11:56 AM	#19
wingman Senior Member Join Date: August 20, 2002 Posts: 2,108	I own a Springfield loaded 1911 several ago I was using moly coating, cleaned after each use but the barrel looked worse each time I cleaned yet it was still accurate, I contacted SA told them what I was using, sent it in they replaced barrel with a new match grade barrel said my old barrel was pitted. I never used moly again although many continue to use coatings with good results. My point is you never know what the previous owner has used in that particular gun. This post is not condemning folks using coatings but just passing along my experience.

June 16, 2019, 01:08 PM	#20
Bill DeShivs Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 10,986	The AMT Hardballer is a basic 1911-style gun. When they were made, machining stainless steel for guns was not exactly an art. Just buy a new 1911 barrel and put it in the gun. Simple. __________________ Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler www.billdeshivs.com

June 16, 2019, 06:05 PM	#22
dgludwig Senior Member Join Date: February 12, 2005 Location: North central Ohio Posts: 7,486	As others have said, even though the rifling (lands) are rough doesn't necessarily mean the pistol will be inaccurate. But those "chatter" marks will likely trap all manner of lead and copper and will be very difficult to clean thoroughly. Personally, I have better things to do than scrubbing a barrel more than I should have to. Follow Bill DeShivs and LineStretcher's advice and replace the barrel. __________________ ONLY AN ARMED PEOPLE CAN BE TRULY FREE ; ONLY AN UNARMED PEOPLE CAN EVER BE ENSLAVED ...Aristotle NRA Benefactor Life Member

June 16, 2019, 08:09 PM	#23
Aguila Blanca Staff Join Date: September 25, 2008 Location: CONUS Posts: 18,471	The problem with replacing the barrel is that the pistol is an AMT Hardballer, and those were notoriously "iffy" in the quality control department anyway. IMHO, if it were just about any other brand I would agree that it makes sense to replace the barrel. With an AMT Hardballer, I don't think so. Cut your losses, sell the gun, and buy a better pistol.

June 17, 2019, 01:24 AM	#24
DnPRK Senior Member Join Date: August 24, 2001 Location: LC, Ca Posts: 1,917	Gun barrels are supposed to be reamed to the proper bore diameter before the rifling is cut. Reamers and labor cost money. AMT probably skipped that step and went straight to the rifleing broach to save money.