June 11, 2012, 09:59 PM | #1 |
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waffen frankonia shotgun?
I am looking for info on a double barrel shotgun, 16 gauge, hammers,one barrel is stamped 16.1 and the other is 16.5 ; chokes? Anyway I can't find a reference for this and the gun is a " FOREST model '' by WAFFEN FRANKONIA-WURZBURG. I am looking for year of manufacture, by who, where, possible value, etc.
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June 12, 2012, 09:30 AM | #2 |
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WAFFEN FRANKONIA-WURZBURG, founded in 1908, is still in business in Wurzburg, Germany, making sporting rifles, etc.
The proofmarks should help define the year/era your double was made, but from the gauge markings I would WAG that it was made prior to WWI. Because the barrels are marked "16", and not "16/70" (2-3/4"), it has the older short 2-1/2" or 2-9/16" (65mm) chamber (all fired lengths) - and should NOT be fired with modern 2-3/4" ammo (even though unfired shells will chamber), even so-called "low brass" or target loads. Proper, low-pressure 2-1/2" shotshells are available today from the likes of RST, PolyWad, Kent, GameBore & others. The "16.1" (about IC) & 16.5" (about MOD) are the respective barrel's choke constriction measurements. . |
June 12, 2012, 12:53 PM | #3 |
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Thanks for responding, the gun seems more modern and I broke the gun down again and found a serial # 21190, also the tubes have other stampings. The first tube is marked 1,350 17,1 16,1 the second is stamped 18,6 17,1 16,5 under the 18,6 is stamped 70 but only on that tube. I will try to find a website for the manufacturer, but didn't have much luck doing a google search.
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June 12, 2012, 01:40 PM | #4 |
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The 16, 17 and 18 numbers are bore dimensions in MM.
the 70 is the chamber length The 1350 is the proof pressure approved for that barrel It sounds like the barrels were altered and reproofed 16.1 = .633 16.5 = .649 17.1 = .673 18.6 = .732 Since the 16 gauge is a nominal .662, I am wondering about the 18.6, which is a 12 gauge bore diameter A quick trip to a good gunsmith with a bore gauge can clear this up |
June 12, 2012, 09:19 PM | #5 |
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will add photo, still looking for any kind of info
Last edited by jeffg; June 13, 2012 at 03:00 PM. |
June 12, 2012, 10:09 PM | #6 |
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Please try to get better pictures of the proof marks, by they look east german to me. Frankonia used to brand DDR and USSR guns.
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June 12, 2012, 10:26 PM | #7 |
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I will try to repost them tomorrow, I'm sure I can do better, thanks
Last edited by jeffg; June 13, 2012 at 03:00 PM. |
June 13, 2012, 03:20 PM | #8 |
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waffen shotgun update
Better pictures are available, never considered the possibility of being East German? I will post two pictures of hinge plate then three more of barrel hope it helps
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June 13, 2012, 03:37 PM | #9 |
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here are pictures of barrel, the one is a little blurry
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June 13, 2012, 04:14 PM | #10 |
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Those are Italian proof-marks!
Perhaps it was re-bored in Italy. |
June 13, 2012, 07:03 PM | #11 |
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waffen frankonia
So we have a German barrel but it was proof tested in Italy, is there anyway to tell when this gun was made from the proof marks? This is getting really interesting !
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June 13, 2012, 07:12 PM | #12 |
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IINM, the "XVI" mark indicates 1960.
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June 13, 2012, 07:36 PM | #13 |
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I was thinking it was for 16 gauge?
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June 13, 2012, 07:42 PM | #14 |
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I suspect the "RAG" stamp to be a maker's mark, possibly for the rework.
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June 13, 2012, 11:18 PM | #15 |
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You might try:
RigArmi / RigArms (RAG) Industria Rino Galesi, Brescia, Italy |
June 13, 2012, 11:32 PM | #16 | |
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Quote:
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June 14, 2012, 08:13 PM | #17 |
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So then,we have 1945 plus 15? Okay, I will start looking for Italian makers or gunsmiths. Thanks to all
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June 15, 2012, 01:41 AM | #18 |
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The chart posted here on SGW agrees with Zippy that XVI the Italian proof code for a date of 1960. http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=73492
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June 15, 2012, 01:56 AM | #19 |
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Patriot USA says on this SGW thread that 1190 is the grms the barrel weighs. http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/view...p?f=2&t=259709
What is the likelihood that the barrels were made in Italy and sold to a German company that assembled the gun or the guns were simply built in Italy and branded by the the German company? |
June 15, 2012, 10:41 AM | #20 | |
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Quote:
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June 15, 2012, 11:47 AM | #21 |
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Frankonia is a reseller, not a manufacturer. As such it's a rebranded Italian made gun.
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I used to love being able to hit hard at 1000 yards. As I get older I find hitting a mini ram at 200 yards with the 22 oddly more satisfying. |
June 15, 2012, 09:59 PM | #22 |
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I will post pictures tomorrow of barrels with better details, the gun really is a mystery, and it is definitely well made.
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June 17, 2012, 10:52 AM | #23 |
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more pictures
Had to reduce size of pictures to upload but here are some different views of shotgun, still looking for any kind of info, opinions, guesses?
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June 17, 2012, 04:53 PM | #24 |
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If it was assembled in Germany, then it would need German proof marks
I still believe the 1350 is the pressure rating as that is a common number seen on these guns and is typically required before barrel weight to be stamped on them - but I have also been wrong before - weighing the barrels will prove or disprove that aspect I am still wondering about the barrel with the supposed 12 gauge bore size - I can't imagine someone boring out a 16 to 12 - too confusing and the possibility of an OOPS too great |
June 17, 2012, 09:34 PM | #25 |
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barrel weigh or pressure
Tomorrow I will weigh the barrel and see how close it is to weighing 1.35 kilograms (which seems light?) and will post result. I'm also confused about the barrel being rebored to a 16 gauge from 12, it seems to me it would be easier to go from 16 to 12, but I'm only guessing on this. Is the barrel entirely German and the rest of the gun Italian or is gun entirely German and just proof tested in Italy?
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