Using your backup gun by sharing it with a friend

Doug.38PR · December 23, 2005, 09:40 PM

Okay, I was told at CCC (Concealed Carry Class) that your license applys only to you and nobody apart from you that does not have a license can carry around your gun.

HOWEVER, that being said suppose that I am standing in line at the bank with a friend and two armed robbers come in and announce "robbery."

I reach into my pocket and pass my Detective Special to my friend while whipping out my Official Police from the shoulder holster. We both open fire *BANG BANG BANG* Bad guys dead. My friend hands the gun back to me and I put both of them in pocket and holster.

In this occasion I was carrying the gun but let friend use it in time of crisis

Do we get in trouble?

OR

Suppose I am on a date with a girl. We are walking to or from the car and we get confronted by a gang of thugs. We run, pull my Official Police and pass her the Detective Special and tell her to run to find a policeman while I hold or run off the bad guys.

In this occasion I was carrying the guns and let her run off with it for protection until she was out of danger.

Do we get in trouble?

BillCA · December 23, 2005, 09:48 PM

Depends on how many citizens are injured in the shoot out.

Depends on your jurisdiction, whether the BGs actions indicated they were about to kill an employee or customer, etc.

I think the real question is, if you provide your BUG to someone with you when the shooting starts, will you get into trouble? Again, in some jurisdictions they may laud your quick thinking. In others they'll look for any excuse to prosecute. Civilly, you'd be on the hook if your friend injured a bystander, for providing the firearm.

woodland · December 23, 2005, 10:18 PM

edited to facilitate extraction of foot from mouth.

Doug.38PR · December 23, 2005, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Well, for this you would at least lose your permit, as I believe in most states it is not legal to carry in a bank

In Texas it's legal

pax · December 23, 2005, 10:40 PM

There is a very (very!) short list of people for whom I'd risk that level of liability, and every one of them carries a gun of their own already.

pax

USP45usp · December 23, 2005, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Well, for this you would at least lose your permit, as I believe in most states it is not legal to carry in a bank.

In Oregon, it's legal.

As to the original thread, it's all going to depend on the DA and what he/she wants to do. The guns will be taken, an investigation will be held, and according to whatever state you reside, charges may be brought.

But the real question is this, if you give your BUG to another and all turns out 100% (only BG's get killed, nobody else is hurt/killed) then you have to think about the people that you helped and when you face your 12, you know that you did right.

If someone gets hurt, that will be used against you for giving/loaning a firearm to someone that hasn't gone through the classes needed to get their permit and so they are a liability. You may get off in criminal court but you still have to face civil court.

All in all, the same as us carrying and going through the hoops to get a permit, if there is a shoot, it's always going to be a lose/lose situation for all people involved.

Wayne

Sir William · December 23, 2005, 10:56 PM

Pax, not always. My Ohio resident friend is visiting here in KY. Viet Nam Marine combat vet and trusted. He doesn't have a CCW. I would trust him on my 6. There are few that I would hand a firearm to though.

azurefly · December 23, 2005, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Well, for this you would at least lose your permit, as I believe in most states it is not legal to carry in a bank.

In Florida, it's legal.

Before posting something like this assertion, please do some fact checking and verify what you say before you say it. In this case, that would involve being able to actually cite a state in which it is verifiably illegal to carry in a bank. "I heard it somewhere," is not adequate. It's for that same reason -- so-called "conventional wisdom" -- that loads of people believe it is illegal to drive barefoot. A check of the AAA "Digest of Motor Laws" reveals that not one U.S. state makes it illegal to drive barefoot.

Bad myths get started this way. Look at what happened with the GLOCK. "Plastic gun! Can't be detected! Oooh! Wahhh!"

-azurefly

GetSetToJet · December 24, 2005, 12:03 AM

Your friend probably isn't a good shot anyways. Either make him stand in front of you or just use both guns yourself. Afterall, we do have two hands for a reason.

woodland · December 24, 2005, 12:12 AM

Quote:

Before posting something like this assertion, please do some fact checking and verify what you say before you say it. In this case, that would involve being able to actually cite a state in which it is verifiably illegal to carry in a bank. "I heard it somewhere," is not adequate. It's for that same reason -- so-called "conventional wisdom" -- that loads of people believe it is illegal to drive barefoot. A check of the AAA "Digest of Motor Laws" reveals that not one U.S. state makes it illegal to drive barefoot.

Ok, I am sorry for my incorrect information. I was just now looking on packing.org, and I found nothing about carrying in a bank for Washington, either. I will have do some more looking. What I stated was based on "facts" given to me by the sherrifs office when they issued my Washington permit to me. Stating that I could not carry on federal property, (post office, etc.) bars, schools, etc., and they also said banks. I was told verbally, and it was also on the pamphlet they gave me with my permit. But in looking tonight, I have not been able to find anything on banks. So I eat crow, however I did say "I believe," and not that it was fact. I was just going off of the instruction I was given by my local law enforcement. Looks like maybe they were wrong.
Sorry Misinformation in previous post has been edited.

azurefly · December 24, 2005, 01:34 AM

That's doing it like a man. Thanks for clarifying and owning up to the mistake. Sorry I seemed to jump on you. I'm a stickler for stopping the flow of misinformation...

-azurefly

Doug.38PR · December 24, 2005, 04:24 PM

The fact that this kind of thread even comes up into anyone head is what irritates me

with all the self-righteous political laws and frivilous lawsuites out there from money grubbing PI attorneys.

Common sense dictates that bad guys commit crime, bad guys get shot. Good guys, armed and unarmed, go home and on with their lives no longer to be threatened by bad guys. Anyone gets hurt it's the fault of the bad guys and they should be held responsible for any and all injuries first and foremost. If no money can be got out of them because they are dead or broke then that's tough. Life is unfair, suing the good guys for money is not justice. Two wrongs don't make a right.

BUT, unfortunatly as we all know DA and polititians don't think like real people so here we are discussing it....

Anyway, back to the discussing, my first senario wasn't necessarily supposed to be about a bank in particular but any public place (at the movies, in a restraunt, at a church, in a grocery store, etc.) where lives are in danger from bad guys (our own lives included)

What about my second senario?

XavierBreath · December 24, 2005, 04:51 PM

I'm going to do a bad bad thing and post before I read responses........

Quote:

and nobody apart from you that does not have a license can carry around your gun.

If you gave your back-up gun to a friend in an immediate crisis to assist them and yourself in saving your lives.........
I believe you would be able in a court of law, (if charges were even brought to bear, which I doubt would happen, especially in Texas) be able to demonstrate that your friend never carried your weapon concealed. All the time it was in their hands, it was in open carry mode, and thus perfectly legal. The moment the friend conceals the handgun (IF they do) is when they violate the law, not when they use it to preserve their life.

Now...I'm off to see how off base I was..........

December 23, 2005, 09:40 PM	#1
Doug.38PR Junior member Join Date: January 18, 2005 Posts: 3,298	Using your backup gun by sharing it with a friend Okay, I was told at CCC (Concealed Carry Class) that your license applys only to you and nobody apart from you that does not have a license can carry around your gun. HOWEVER, that being said suppose that I am standing in line at the bank with a friend and two armed robbers come in and announce "robbery." I reach into my pocket and pass my Detective Special to my friend while whipping out my Official Police from the shoulder holster. We both open fire BANG BANG BANG Bad guys dead. My friend hands the gun back to me and I put both of them in pocket and holster. In this occasion I was carrying the gun but let friend use it in time of crisis Do we get in trouble? OR Suppose I am on a date with a girl. We are walking to or from the car and we get confronted by a gang of thugs. We run, pull my Official Police and pass her the Detective Special and tell her to run to find a policeman while I hold or run off the bad guys. In this occasion I was carrying the guns and let her run off with it for protection until she was out of danger. Do we get in trouble?

December 23, 2005, 09:48 PM	#2
BillCA Senior Member Join Date: November 28, 2004 Location: Silicon Valley, Ca Posts: 7,117	Depends on how many citizens are injured in the shoot out. Depends on your jurisdiction, whether the BGs actions indicated they were about to kill an employee or customer, etc. I think the real question is, if you provide your BUG to someone with you when the shooting starts, will you get into trouble? Again, in some jurisdictions they may laud your quick thinking. In others they'll look for any excuse to prosecute. Civilly, you'd be on the hook if your friend injured a bystander, for providing the firearm. __________________ BillCA in CA (Unfortunately)

December 23, 2005, 10:18 PM	#3
woodland Senior Member Join Date: December 26, 2001 Location: western wa. Posts: 564	edited to facilitate extraction of foot from mouth. __________________ "There is no spoon..." Last edited by woodland; December 24, 2005 at 12:13 AM.

December 23, 2005, 10:40 PM	#5
pax Senior Member Join Date: May 16, 2000 Location: In a state of flux Posts: 7,520	There is a very (very!) short list of people for whom I'd risk that level of liability, and every one of them carries a gun of their own already. pax __________________ Kathy Jackson My personal website: Cornered Cat

December 23, 2005, 10:56 PM	#7
Sir William Senior Member Join Date: October 13, 2004 Posts: 3,261	Pax, not always. My Ohio resident friend is visiting here in KY. Viet Nam Marine combat vet and trusted. He doesn't have a CCW. I would trust him on my 6. There are few that I would hand a firearm to though.

December 24, 2005, 12:03 AM	#9
GetSetToJet Member Join Date: December 21, 2005 Posts: 17	Your friend probably isn't a good shot anyways. Either make him stand in front of you or just use both guns yourself. Afterall, we do have two hands for a reason.

December 24, 2005, 01:34 AM	#11
azurefly Junior member Join Date: November 22, 2005 Posts: 1,187	That's doing it like a man. Thanks for clarifying and owning up to the mistake. Sorry I seemed to jump on you. I'm a stickler for stopping the flow of misinformation... -azurefly

December 24, 2005, 04:24 PM	#12
Doug.38PR Junior member Join Date: January 18, 2005 Posts: 3,298	The fact that this kind of thread even comes up into anyone head is what irritates me with all the self-righteous political laws and frivilous lawsuites out there from money grubbing PI attorneys. Common sense dictates that bad guys commit crime, bad guys get shot. Good guys, armed and unarmed, go home and on with their lives no longer to be threatened by bad guys. Anyone gets hurt it's the fault of the bad guys and they should be held responsible for any and all injuries first and foremost. If no money can be got out of them because they are dead or broke then that's tough. Life is unfair, suing the good guys for money is not justice. Two wrongs don't make a right. BUT, unfortunatly as we all know DA and polititians don't think like real people so here we are discussing it.... Anyway, back to the discussing, my first senario wasn't necessarily supposed to be about a bank in particular but any public place (at the movies, in a restraunt, at a church, in a grocery store, etc.) where lives are in danger from bad guys (our own lives included) What about my second senario?