Keep Me From Blowing Up My Rifle, Please. - Page 2

Vote For David · July 1, 2009, 09:44 PM

I wish I had an extra $100 to convert my Crosman 1389 to .22, but they don't just give those barrels away.

I think the most likely thing is I'll either do some comparison shopping for CBs or just drop it altogether. Maybe the next thread

will be about making heavier pellets for the .177 . . . .

Maybe, just for kicks, in my abundant free time (between work, kids, house, cars, etc) I'll try adding like 3 granules of powder at a time back into the .22 cases and see how much farther down the barrel the bullets get. Then the next thread will be called "DIY: .22LR subsonic rounds"

SL1 · July 2, 2009, 07:57 AM

Why would you want HEAVIER pellets for the .117 when you are already getting shoot-throughs at 8 grains? The .177 grain pellets go up to about 11 grains, but that would just make them shock less and penetrate further. How about some lighter pellets if you want to dump all the energy into the target?

SL1

Vote For David · July 2, 2009, 03:47 PM

The point would be more kinetic energy at lower velocity. Slow it down so it won't punch out the other side, but heavier so it still packs a wallop. Then we get back to the rainbow-like trajectory.

Oh well. Half the fun of is in the contemplating!

HiBC · July 2, 2009, 04:05 PM

As your initial question was "Help me not Blow up My Rifle"

For now,you are dealing with .22 subloads .You are dealing with stuck bullets,etc.I think,so long as you wear shooting glasses to protect your eyes,you won't split the barrel and blow the stock off.

But,long term,experimentation with ammunition,especially before you have a strong understanding of how everything works,might break things and hurt people.

Reloading is great,but we use reloading manuals with lab tested recipes.

The CCI CB long,and I think Rem makes them too,is great.Pellet rifle noise out of a rifle.
I've shot pigeons,and it can be fun!They cook up well,too(consider tuberculosis,though)
Shooting birds with a rifle is often done in an upward direction.I do hope you know exactly where your bullet will stop.It would be tragic if some kid riding a bicycle 1/2 mile away caught your slug behind the ear.

Good luck.

SL1 · July 2, 2009, 08:15 PM

David,

You wrote "The point would be more kinetic energy at lower velocity. Slow it down so it won't punch out the other side, but heavier so it still packs a wallop."

That is not the way it would work. If you keep the same kinectic energy (or add more) with a heavier bullet, it will penetrate more.

To get less penetration, you need a bullet that slows down faster inside the target. That means either a bullet that has a more blunt nose to start with (e.g., a wadcutter shape), or a bullet that expands when it starts penetrating the target (e.g., a hollow point). But, hollowpoints need velocity to expand, so slowing the bullet down will increase penetration of hollow point bullets.

On the other hand, a lighter bullet going faster will slow down faster inside the target, especially if it expands, but still more than the heavy bullet even if it doesn't expand.

That is why people shoot prairie dogs with 90 grain bullets at 3500 fps and elk with 160 grain bullets at 2700 fps from guns like the .270 Winchester. (Also, the 90 grain bullet are designed to break apart within a short penetration and the 160 grain bullets are designed to hold together so as to penetrate deeply.)

SL1

Vote For David · July 2, 2009, 10:31 PM

HiBC, no worries, I'm not about to try the same thing in the M1917!

SL1 the fast & light vs. slow & heavy debate is never ending. It would all be solved if everyone went and traded their 9mms for .45s like God intended!

Okay, I think the shark has been jumped here. One thing is for sure: Starting tonight, the pigeon that flapped 3 times after a followup shot and the one that flopped dead off a wire and bounced off the top of my fence, will NOT be crapping on my car or driveway anymore!

impalacustom · July 3, 2009, 03:08 AM

I think this is exactly what you need, a friend of mine who loves to fiddle with small calibers does this. It is a 22 short necked down to a 17 and yes it does fire and yes those are the recovered bullets. He mainly uses 17gr VMax bullets but good luck getting them as they don't sell them anymore to handload with.

Sport45 · July 3, 2009, 04:01 AM

I don't believe I'd care to size or seat bullets in live rimfire cases on my press.

Vote For David · July 3, 2009, 07:21 AM

I've been a fan of hot .17 loads since they came out, and they can be murder on crows

ground squirrels, et. al, to ranges a .22 has a hard time with. My only problem is that when I think about buying a varmint rifle, my wallet goes :barf:

Regarding sizing/pressing live rimfire rounds. You'd have to be pressing so hard you'd stop to investigate the source of the friction, long before you started firing the primers. Remember they are ignited by a SMALL surface-area impact on one part of the rim. Sizing would be done empty, n'est-ce pas? The primer is a flash in the pan, so to speak, even if the force of sizing set it off. Pushing the bullets in would be hand-insertion levels of force, and that spread out against a wide area. No worries, just be careful like with any reloading setup.

Sport45 · July 3, 2009, 07:55 AM

Quote:

No worries, just be careful like with any reloading setup.

No need to worry about me. I ain't doing it!

Anyway, a custom-chambered .17cal gun to shoot those modified .22shorts would cost much more than the pellet gun needed to dispatch pidgeons.

Jim243 · July 3, 2009, 12:06 PM

Buy a plastic owl and place it in one of your trees or a plastic hawk. You wont have to worry about any small birds coming by after that and it's a lot safer that shot zipping through your neabors yards.

I've done that to keep them from building nests on my window sills.

Sevens · July 3, 2009, 12:52 PM

And if you have a cat problem, I've read where sprinkling chili pepper heavily in every area you don't want them works well. Cats walk through it and later bathe themselves and put 2 and 2 together and don't go back. Unless you have a mexican cat, then it just attracts more of them. Pretty soon you've got a line of cats wearing sombreros and taking siestas in your back yard, pretty annoying.

Vote For David · July 3, 2009, 08:55 PM

You might be surprised how many birds I have seen sitting next to fake owls. The only thing that seems to really keep them off are spikes, and I ain't spiking all my trees because then the loggers might shoot me!

James R. Burke · July 5, 2009, 08:25 PM

I was using the 22 cb shorts in the Brownign BLR also. I also have a pellet rifle that gets the job done real good also, just more fun with the 22's. I would not alter a rimfire bullet you are asking for a problem.

SL1 · July 6, 2009, 10:46 AM

David,

You wrote

Quote:

"SL1 the fast & light vs. slow & heavy debate is never ending. It would all be solved if everyone went and traded their 9mms for .45s like God intended! "

There really isn't any "debate" regarding your situation with the pigeons. If you are already getting shoot-throughs" with light pellets from a particular pellet gun, loading the same pellet gun with heavier pellets with the same nose shape is going to INCREASE penetration, not decrease it.

It is not the same as the "debate" you refer to in handguns, where different calibers with different bullet velocities are compared on the basis of muzzle energy, and the striking energy effects of DIFFERENT CALIBER bullets are compared on the target at different velocities. THAT may go on forever, but you can easily convince yourself of what I wrote by trying the havier pellets. I was just tying to save you the trouble.

SL1

View Poll Results: Should I Try It?
Yes, Definitely, No Problems!	3	16.67%
No, Definitely, Your Gun ASPLODE!!!!1!	3	16.67%
Maybe.	3	16.67%
Seriously?	9	50.00%
Voters: 18. You may not vote on this poll

July 1, 2009, 09:44 PM	#26
Vote For David Member Join Date: February 12, 2009 Location: Pflugerville, Texas Posts: 15	I wish I had an extra $100 to convert my Crosman 1389 to .22, but they don't just give those barrels away. I think the most likely thing is I'll either do some comparison shopping for CBs or just drop it altogether. Maybe the next thread will be about making heavier pellets for the .177 . . . . Maybe, just for kicks, in my abundant free time (between work, kids, house, cars, etc) I'll try adding like 3 granules of powder at a time back into the .22 cases and see how much farther down the barrel the bullets get. Then the next thread will be called "DIY: .22LR subsonic rounds" __________________ Jesus loves you. ------------- Check out my blog!

July 2, 2009, 03:47 PM	#28
Vote For David Member Join Date: February 12, 2009 Location: Pflugerville, Texas Posts: 15	The point would be more kinetic energy at lower velocity. Slow it down so it won't punch out the other side, but heavier so it still packs a wallop. Then we get back to the rainbow-like trajectory. Oh well. Half the fun of is in the contemplating! __________________ Jesus loves you. ------------- Check out my blog!

July 2, 2009, 10:31 PM	#31
Vote For David Member Join Date: February 12, 2009 Location: Pflugerville, Texas Posts: 15	HiBC, no worries, I'm not about to try the same thing in the M1917! SL1 the fast & light vs. slow & heavy debate is never ending. It would all be solved if everyone went and traded their 9mms for .45s like God intended! Okay, I think the shark has been jumped here. One thing is for sure: Starting tonight, the pigeon that flapped 3 times after a followup shot and the one that flopped dead off a wire and bounced off the top of my fence, will NOT be crapping on my car or driveway anymore! __________________ Jesus loves you. ------------- Check out my blog!

July 3, 2009, 04:01 AM	#33
Sport45 Senior Member Join Date: May 25, 1999 Location: Too close to Houston Posts: 4,196	I don't believe I'd care to size or seat bullets in live rimfire cases on my press. __________________ Proud member of the NRA and Texas State Rifle Association. Registered and active voter.

July 2, 2009, 07:57 AM	#27
SL1 Senior Member Join Date: November 8, 2007 Posts: 2,001	Why would you want HEAVIER pellets for the .117 when you are already getting shoot-throughs at 8 grains? The .177 grain pellets go up to about 11 grains, but that would just make them shock less and penetrate further. How about some lighter pellets if you want to dump all the energy into the target? SL1

July 2, 2009, 04:05 PM	#29
HiBC Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2006 Posts: 8,287	As your initial question was "Help me not Blow up My Rifle" For now,you are dealing with .22 subloads .You are dealing with stuck bullets,etc.I think,so long as you wear shooting glasses to protect your eyes,you won't split the barrel and blow the stock off. But,long term,experimentation with ammunition,especially before you have a strong understanding of how everything works,might break things and hurt people. Reloading is great,but we use reloading manuals with lab tested recipes. The CCI CB long,and I think Rem makes them too,is great.Pellet rifle noise out of a rifle. I've shot pigeons,and it can be fun!They cook up well,too(consider tuberculosis,though) Shooting birds with a rifle is often done in an upward direction.I do hope you know exactly where your bullet will stop.It would be tragic if some kid riding a bicycle 1/2 mile away caught your slug behind the ear. Good luck.

July 2, 2009, 08:15 PM	#30
SL1 Senior Member Join Date: November 8, 2007 Posts: 2,001	David, You wrote "The point would be more kinetic energy at lower velocity. Slow it down so it won't punch out the other side, but heavier so it still packs a wallop." That is not the way it would work. If you keep the same kinectic energy (or add more) with a heavier bullet, it will penetrate more. To get less penetration, you need a bullet that slows down faster inside the target. That means either a bullet that has a more blunt nose to start with (e.g., a wadcutter shape), or a bullet that expands when it starts penetrating the target (e.g., a hollow point). But, hollowpoints need velocity to expand, so slowing the bullet down will increase penetration of hollow point bullets. On the other hand, a lighter bullet going faster will slow down faster inside the target, especially if it expands, but still more than the heavy bullet even if it doesn't expand. That is why people shoot prairie dogs with 90 grain bullets at 3500 fps and elk with 160 grain bullets at 2700 fps from guns like the .270 Winchester. (Also, the 90 grain bullet are designed to break apart within a short penetration and the 160 grain bullets are designed to hold together so as to penetrate deeply.) SL1

July 3, 2009, 07:21 AM	#34
Vote For David Member Join Date: February 12, 2009 Location: Pflugerville, Texas Posts: 15	I've been a fan of hot .17 loads since they came out, and they can be murder on crows ground squirrels, et. al, to ranges a .22 has a hard time with. My only problem is that when I think about buying a varmint rifle, my wallet goes :barf: Regarding sizing/pressing live rimfire rounds. You'd have to be pressing so hard you'd stop to investigate the source of the friction, long before you started firing the primers. Remember they are ignited by a SMALL surface-area impact on one part of the rim. Sizing would be done empty, n'est-ce pas? The primer is a flash in the pan, so to speak, even if the force of sizing set it off. Pushing the bullets in would be hand-insertion levels of force, and that spread out against a wide area. No worries, just be careful like with any reloading setup. __________________ Jesus loves you. ------------- Check out my blog!

July 3, 2009, 12:06 PM	#36
Jim243 Senior Member Join Date: January 5, 2009 Location: Just off Route 66 Posts: 5,067	Buy a plastic owl and place it in one of your trees or a plastic hawk. You wont have to worry about any small birds coming by after that and it's a lot safer that shot zipping through your neabors yards. I've done that to keep them from building nests on my window sills.

July 3, 2009, 12:52 PM	#37
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,756	And if you have a cat problem, I've read where sprinkling chili pepper heavily in every area you don't want them works well. Cats walk through it and later bathe themselves and put 2 and 2 together and don't go back. Unless you have a mexican cat, then it just attracts more of them. Pretty soon you've got a line of cats wearing sombreros and taking siestas in your back yard, pretty annoying. __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.

July 3, 2009, 08:55 PM	#38
Vote For David Member Join Date: February 12, 2009 Location: Pflugerville, Texas Posts: 15	You might be surprised how many birds I have seen sitting next to fake owls. The only thing that seems to really keep them off are spikes, and I ain't spiking all my trees because then the loggers might shoot me! __________________ Jesus loves you. ------------- Check out my blog!

July 5, 2009, 08:25 PM	#39
James R. Burke Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2009 Location: U.P. of Mich/Quinnesec Posts: 1,897	I was using the 22 cb shorts in the Brownign BLR also. I also have a pellet rifle that gets the job done real good also, just more fun with the 22's. I would not alter a rimfire bullet you are asking for a problem.