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December 20, 2005, 12:31 AM | #1 |
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question for former and current military snipers
I don't know if this qualifies for this forum but I wasn't sure where else to ask. I just saw a recruiting commercial for the Army Special Forces. They showed a scout/sniper team watching enemy movements and noted that they'd been at it for over a week. What I wonder is are snipers expected to literally not move for days at a time? Would that even be possible? Even taking in the least amount of water possible eventually you'd have to water the plants, right? How much strain does lying prone for hours on end put on the spine?
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December 20, 2005, 12:34 AM | #2 |
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Oh, it happens. Not sure how many were on the team in the commercial, but it happens.
...uh, by the way, I am not or never have been a sniper, sorry, I didn't take in the Title of the thread. |
December 20, 2005, 07:57 AM | #3 |
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I am no sniper,
But all the literature I have read from the US Army and Marine Corps states that the team may be in place for many days. The legnth of the mission usually determines the type of concealment used. For longer missions, usually days, the US Army guides even talk about the team building a small concealed bunker overlooking the target area. |
December 20, 2005, 02:55 PM | #4 |
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I am no sniper, (unless you count paintball! )
So I will not answer the question directed to snipers.
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December 20, 2005, 03:10 PM | #5 |
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No sniper here, either, but whenever that term comes up, there's one person that stood out above all others, Carlos Hathcock. There is a wealth of information on him, including several biographies. There's a fair amount of info here: http://www.marinescoutsniper.com/sni...es/Carlos.html .
The site also has answers to your questions.
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December 20, 2005, 04:51 PM | #6 |
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thank you much
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December 20, 2005, 10:38 PM | #7 |
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I was also not a sniper, but I think its mostly the SF guys that would be sitting around for days in one spot without moving, just out of practicality.
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December 20, 2005, 11:34 PM | #8 |
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I always get a kick out of all the banter about what SF/SEALs/nameit do (as if they are the standard by which the profession of arms is set). A typical Marine STA team may be in place for days on end. A SWAT sniper will do the same (if req'd).
As a matter of fact, your typical line company grunt has killed more terrorists and lives through more crap than his specops brethren. Why? B/C the specops dudes live in the secure facilities, playing xbox, lifting and waiting for the word. Go out, do the hit, back for chow. The grunts have to live outside of the wire, rarely get any of the fire support/sigint/humint/transpo that the specops bubbas get, and do it for much less $$. Specops guys are great; worked with many, friends with a few. But most if not all of them respect the hell out of the line guys. Oh, and I wasn't a sniper but I stayed at a Holiday Inn last night
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December 21, 2005, 12:26 AM | #9 |
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BreacherUp!
I was not suggesting anything like what you said, I was simply making an observation based on the fact the SF guys are the only ones not likely to relieved after more than 24 hours of duty. Not saying that this could not happen to a grunt or an SRT TM(military version of swat, which I was), just that an op would not be planned that way by anyone but SF. Those guys are crazy like that
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December 21, 2005, 10:26 AM | #10 |
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Friend of mine's father in law is a retried SWAT tema member. He was a sniper and has one hell of a sniping rifle. Anyway another member of his team went through Carl Hathcocks sniping school before he passed away. The way he described it you had to crawl into an area and make a successful shot at a target while not being spotted by observers. After the shoot the observors would walk around and try to pick you out of the foliage. Sounded pretty intense.
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December 22, 2005, 11:15 PM | #11 | |
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Blackwater Ops said,
Quote:
it, a typical line company grunt, and on more than one occasion we spent over 24 DAYS in the bush, running patrols and ambushes, and KT's, day and night, where a night OFF was getting to stay inside the company perimeter and stand guard, two hours on, and two hours off, all night. We had scout-sniper teams travel with our platoon several times while I was there. Great guys, and totally dedicated to their craft, but they pretty much did what they wanted. They had the given authority to come and go as they saw fit, and they did. And believe me, they never stood perimeter guard at 0200. Walter USMC RVN 1969/1970 |
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December 23, 2005, 08:59 AM | #12 | |
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Quote:
The specops community has just as much respect for the grunts as any other unit has respect for the people that do OTHER jobs. By following your logic I could say "yeah US Air Force pilots get paid more than army grunts and all they do is play xbox and wait for the call to go bomb people, then they get to go home." You just can't compare the two. As for the initial question... When a SF unit is carrying out a long-term recon, they will either dig a small hole where they are, and dig in for the duration, or they will set up a small hole back away from the observation area and limit their movements to night only. I would assume that Marine Recon units do the same, but I couldn't tell you for sure.
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December 23, 2005, 11:01 AM | #13 | |
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Quote:
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December 23, 2005, 11:41 AM | #14 | |
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Quote:
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December 23, 2005, 11:55 AM | #15 | ||
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Quote:
Sometimes, but rarely. Marine Recon is usually deployed in larger groups, but Force Recon is usually just a sniper/spotter team. They are the only military unit I know of that currently uses Sniper/spotter teams. Army and Navy both use snipers attached to larger units, unless they are being used as defensive (ie; securing an area). Quote:
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December 23, 2005, 03:43 PM | #16 |
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Walter
Zero offense meant here but, things have changed A LOT since you were in action, for good reason.
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December 23, 2005, 07:16 PM | #17 |
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I was not a sniper, but
During operation Desert Sheild (before gulf war one), my squad was inserted into Iraq by helicopter to set up an observation post along a major highway. We went in and dug a hole along the road to hide in. We were in that hole for 18 days. This was in an area that was controlled by the "Republican Guard" force. We didn't leave the hole at any time for any reason. And yes, that means everyone knows what you're s**t smells like. No reason to think a sniper can't do the same. If his choice is pee himself or give away his position, he'll get wet.
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December 24, 2005, 03:28 AM | #18 |
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Snipers don't spend all their time shooting. Part of the job is observation. That'd be the 'scout' part. SF guys could well be in a hide for a week. SAS guys have been known to be in a hide for a month or more.
The only time you don't move around is during daylight. Movement can and will be spotted before anything else. Part of the selection process is looking for guys who can handle the stress of not being able to move around whenever you want and being in places where moving can get you killed or worse. It's part of what makes them special. |
December 24, 2005, 11:24 PM | #19 | |
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Blackwater Ops
Quote:
"my wife's cousin said", etc, etc. I've been there and done a little of that, and I'm not talking from heresay, or secondhand knowledge. Just personal experience. Semper Fi, Walter |
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December 25, 2005, 01:05 PM | #20 | |
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Quote:
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December 26, 2005, 12:09 PM | #21 |
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Marine Frorce Recon
Well back in the olden days 1964 the recon team's number depended on the mission.
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