December 12, 2005, 04:11 PM | #1 |
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Air travel with a pistol
I will be flying to NYC this Jan. Since I'm LEO I may CCW in NY. What are the regs for flying with a checked in pistol? I have a lockable case, plus police i.d.? I will be flying American Air.
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December 12, 2005, 04:55 PM | #2 |
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We had a class on this at my LEA recently, but I don't remember all of the specifics. I would recommend that you contact the airline, they should be able to tell you everything. I'm pretty sure that pistol and ammo must be packed seperately, and case must be locked. But like I said, the best thing to do is to contact the airline and or the FAA, and be plenty early for your flight, expecting security delays.
Have a safe trip, Merry Christmas!
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December 12, 2005, 10:15 PM | #3 |
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Firearms, ammunition and firearm parts may only be transported in checked baggage. Firearms, ammunition and firearm parts are prohibited from carry-on baggage.
There are certain limited exceptions for law enforcement officers (LEOs) who are authorized to fly armed by meeting the requirements of 49 CFR ยง 1544.219. Following is a summary of key regulatory requirements to transport firearms, firearm parts or ammunition in checked baggage: All firearms must be declared to the air carrier during the ticket counter check-in process. The firearm must be unloaded. The firearm must be carried in a hard-sided container. The container must be locked. It is preferred that the passenger provide the key or combination to the screener if it is necessary to open the container, and then remain present during screening to take back possession of the key after the container is cleared. If you are not present and the screener must open the container, the TSA and/or airline will make a reasonable attempt to contact the passenger. If this is unsuccessful, the container will not be placed on the plane since unlocked gun cases (or cases with broken locks) are not permitted on aircraft due to Federal regulations. Any ammunition transported must be securely packed in fiber (such as cardboard), wood or metal boxes or other packaging specifically designed to carry small amounts of ammunition. Firearm magazines/clips do not satisfy the packaging requirement unless they provide a complete and secure enclosure of the ammunition (e.g., by securely covering the exposed portions of the magazine or by securely placing the magazine in a pouch, holder, holster or lanyard). The ammunition may also be located in the same hard-sided case as the firearm, as long as it is properly packed as described above. Black powder and percussion caps used with black-powder type firearms are not permitted in carry-on or checked baggage. The regulations are strictly enforced. Violations can result in criminal prosecution and the imposition of civil penalties of up to $10,000 per violation. Air carriers may have their own additional requirements on the carriage of firearms and the amount of ammunition an individual may place in checked baggage. Therefore, travelers should also contact the air carrier regarding its firearm and ammunition carriage policies. I found this on a link at taurususa.com from my expierienceit is accurate, but I must reinforce that the TSA will inspect your luggage and usually need to open firearm cases (x-rays don't usually penetrate the reciever) so be handy to submit a key or combo. if they cut the lock it can't fly if they don't inspect it it dosen't fly. |
December 13, 2005, 02:01 PM | #4 |
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Why not ship the weapon UPS or the like to a secure address where you can pick it up upon arrival, and avoid the hassle at the airport?
Safe traveling! Blair
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December 13, 2005, 02:39 PM | #5 |
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Are you absolutely positive that NYC will honor your CCW? Will you be on duty? Or vacationing?
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December 13, 2005, 02:51 PM | #6 |
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go to www.packing.org
You will see links to the regulations from the TSA and most airlines. You need to follow BOTH. If one is more stringent than the other follow that one. Print the TSA paperwork and the airline paperwork. Also print the letter to the Port Authority of NY&NJ that is present on the site. It explains the law for the kindly officers working at JFK, LaGuardia and Newark. If you think it is bad for you try NOT being a LEO in NY. |
December 13, 2005, 07:05 PM | #7 |
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LEO , active or retired are authorized to CCW anywhere in the USA as of last year .
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December 13, 2005, 07:16 PM | #8 |
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Theoretically, yes. However, some municipalities are a bit slow in recognizing that federal law. Chicago being one. I believe that NYC may be dragging their feet also. I realize fed law prempts city or state, however, if one is arrested for carrying in NYC, being the test case is not cheap, especially when a long way from home. Therefore my questions.
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December 13, 2005, 07:40 PM | #9 |
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I am behind the times and way before 9/11, but it used to be at one time the LE dept adminstration had to set up the clearence to fly. They had verifications etc. Letterheads are a thing of the past since the era of wordprocessing and color printers selling for $49.99. It also had to be on official business like investigations or extrications etc. I'm sure with the homeland security involved much has changed. I think the new federal law for retired guys requires approval of the police chief, sheriff etc. and there are requirements like being physically able to cary and no history of drugs, booze or shrinks since retirement etc. They approve your eligibility as I recall. This is all from my own terrible memory and perhaps totally wrong. But I think there are still many hoops to jump through.
I will watch this thread with interest to see what shakes out and if anyone had the exact info. I think generally, everyone's answering sofar had been close but not complete but not sure.
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December 13, 2005, 08:11 PM | #10 |
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flight pistol requirments
This is easy,
1) field strip pistol lock in airline approved case (i use pelican cases) keep your key with YOU 2) put locked case in luggage you plan to check and lock it 3) when you get to airport proceed to ticket counter and while checking in tell agent " i also have a firearm to declare with my checked baggage................she will instruct you on the rest its that easy, i fly all over all the time and have NEVER had an issue, just make sure you field strip it or you will learn your lesson the first time BOBO the TSA clown slams home the slide on an empty chamber on your favorite 4000 dollar custom 1911 .............other than that its easy, be confident and keep those credentials in your pocket you dont need 'em use ur drivers liscense once you are in NYC.........your on your own for that research i use www.megalaw.com for state and federal and www.municode.com for cities....its worked for me on more than one occasion |
December 13, 2005, 08:36 PM | #11 |
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Ditto what angedky said. I suggest keeping the firearm locked in a case inside you main suitcase with TSA APPROVED LOCKS. This is important so that if TSA for some reason decides to open it up your locks will not be destroyed. TSA will not allow a firearm with no(or destroyed) locks on a plane. I have had no trouble going through security with a firearm in this manner. I have in fact had the easyist times while traveling with a firearm for some odd reason. I was not even strip searched!
Another tip, show your LEO ID when checking in, and obviously try to be discreet, dont want everyone in line to know there is a $$$ gun in your checked bag.
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December 13, 2005, 08:38 PM | #12 |
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Deep stuff...
Plus, it's Newyorkkistan |
December 13, 2005, 09:58 PM | #13 |
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From August 29, 2004:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthrea...k+City+airport !warning! Bringing Firearms To New York State -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hello everyone, Noah Medcalf and I just completed a two day Tactical pistol class in Calverton New York on Long Island. We flew into Islip/MacArthur Airport with several firearms (All Handguns) that were checked in my baggage without incident or question in Nashville Airport. This morning as we were checking in at our Airline at Islip, We were specifically asked if we had any firearms. After stating that I would be checking several firearms the TSA agent immediately turned and waved to a supervisor and told the supervisor I was checking firearms. The supervisor then turned and went over to a Suffolk County Police Officer who was already nearby and spoke to him. He then got the attention of another officer and both approached and identified themselves. He asked if I had firearms and I told him yes and pointed to the container that held them. He opened the container and looked at the firearms. He then asked if I had a New York State permit to possess these firearms. I told him no. He then informed me that he would have to place me under arrest for violating New York State law. I then proceeded to tell him that I was carrying Law Enforcement credentials and produced them. He took my ID, looked at it and then took it into another room for about 5 minutes where I assume he copied it. He came back and then proceeded to inventory and record the serial numbers on all of the firearms. After doing so he informed me that since the "New Law" (HR 218) had been passed that they now had more discression in handeling this situation but some Police Officers had been arrested prior to HR 218. He did add that he personally would never do that but other officers had. I asked him if the circumstances would have been such that two of our instructors that were not Police Officers had taught this class, would they have been arrested. He said yes that unless you are a Police Officer or have a New York State permit to possess EACH FIREARM, NOT JUST ANY FIREARM, then then you will be arrested regardless of whether you are teaching a class or taking a class or attending a shooting event. After letting us go, we passed through security and proceeded to our gate. About five minutes later the other officer approached me and said they needed my date of birth. When asked why he stated that they had forgotten to get it and needed it for their records. The reason that I wanted inform you all of this is to let everyone know what is going on at ALL airports in New York State not just New York city as I had previously heard this was a practice. I think that it is deplorable that ANY person who would travel to New York State with a Firearm for any legal purpose would be subject to arrest upon leaving the state for merely possesing a firearm in New York State without a state permit to POSSESS said firearm. This was and is not about carrying a firearm it was and is about merely possessing a firearm in that state. I had a great time in New York and met a lot of great people and made a lot of new friends. I hope to return to train with them again in the future. It is sad that for the first time ever I felt like I was in another country, Not my country, Not the United States of America. __________________ Tracy Hightower, Instructor Tactical Response LLC http://www.WarriorMindset.com Training At The Cutting Edge! Phone 731-676-2041 *************************************** Is it possible that this sort of thing is still happening in NYC? |
December 13, 2005, 10:29 PM | #14 |
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Thanks for relaying Tracy's nighmare, Don. I note that Tracy's post is almost a year and a half old; has NY finally gotten the message or are they still running under their own rules? (They tend to do that up there sometimes. )
Before HR 218, I was poking around the Allegheny Natl. Forest a few years ago and found I'd blundered into NY. With a 1911 in the armrest pocket of my truck, my heartrate immediately went into orbit and I broke into a cold sweat, expecting any minute to be surrounded by helicopters, tanks and Bradley's . All of the above must've been on a potty break, 'cause I was able to get turned around and get the heck out of there. New York, the G(un)Friendly State. You sure Ted's really from Mass. and not NY? Seriously, are there any NYPD or NYSP officers here that can enlighten us, or any other LEO's that have traveled to NYC recently?
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December 14, 2005, 05:35 AM | #15 |
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Ah, Newyorkkistan...
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December 19, 2005, 06:21 PM | #16 |
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I know this thread hasnt been responded to in a few days but I thought maybe another (insider's as you might call it) point of you may be helpfull.
I am a security officer for the TSA (transportation security administration) in MI. Most people dont experience the hasstle Don H described. In most cases you would proceed to check as normal and tell the ticket agent one (or more) or your peices of luggage to be check contains a firearm. They will have you fill out and sign a declaration stating that your firearm is unloaded etc. and in most case will have you (or hand personally to) the TSA personel who will be checking your weapon. As long as you dont have ammunition larger than a .50 cal or 8gauge and it is properly pakaged in either a hard sided case or manufacturers packaging (there is a limit to the ammount you can carry but I cant think of it off hand), the firearm is unloaded with a declaration signed my you and verified by the ticket agent, you have the firearm in a hard sided case with at least one lock (typically) for a handgun and one lock on each end of a shot gun/rifle case you should be fine. TSA approved locks help because that way we have the keys for them making it easier on you and us, but any locks will do as long as you can give us the key to unlock it. Also, I have had experiences where people will want/try to unlock or open the case for me, I know they are just trying to be helpful but once it is in the officers posession dont touch the case as it can cause us problems.(we were informed of a situation recently where the passenger attempted to physically prove the gun was unloaded and accidentally fired a round that thankfully didnt hit anyone). Once we check it everything should be all set, given everything goes properly. Many people travel with firearms and I have only had one experience where a LEO was notified and that was at the airlines request. There are other regulations you can read about on TSA's website (it maybe the info Recon7 found) but heres the link http://www.tsa.gov/public/display?co...000519800ac232 Hope I helped. |
December 19, 2005, 06:46 PM | #17 |
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First off, tiburondriver47, welcome to TFL! And secondly, yes, you have helped immensely. There you have it folks, straight from the horse's mouth. Er,well... straight from TSA 's mouth . Thanks tiburondriver47!
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December 19, 2005, 07:24 PM | #18 |
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New York State does not recognize CCW permits from any other state. In addition if you are a CCW permit holder in NYS your permit is NOT valid in the 5 boroughs of NYC. To carry or possess a handgun in NYC you must have a permit issued from NYC. I am not sure how HR218 would affect this.
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December 19, 2005, 07:30 PM | #19 |
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don't forget
And THEN you have all sorts of tags put on your case screaming GUN INSIDE! and this is good for having it stolen on the flightway.
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December 19, 2005, 11:36 PM | #20 |
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Thanks Capt Charlie, good to be here and to be able to help out.
BDC: We dont do all that at our airport, but I guess it depends on the different airline regulations. Our main goal is to make sure everything is safe to travel and that no one else can get access to it (unless of course they broke the whole case if it was plastic). Someof the nicest cases I've seen are almost anything made by Pelican, or the metal cases with the rod that slides through 3 holes and only requires one lock to secure the whole opening of the case (kind of hard to explain unless you know what I'm talking about). |
December 22, 2005, 05:54 PM | #21 |
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I'm glad I don't fly much anymore. When I was in the service I flew routinely with firearms,(30 years ago) They only had to be unloaded and action open and in a locked case. You could put them in a regular suitcase as long as it was locked.
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December 23, 2005, 12:11 AM | #22 |
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Re: police arresting folks for transporting handguns in an airport, especially New York airports. This is apparently illegal per federal law. See the link:
http://www.nraila.org/images/DOJltrTSA.pdf It would suck to have to pay a lawyer, however, to prove this. |
December 23, 2005, 01:31 PM | #23 |
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Actually the "Firearms" declaration tag has been required to be placed INSIDE of the case or box with the firearm for several years. This was a change for the exact reason of some low-life seeing a bag with the orange "I have a gun inside me" tag and making off with it. The tag must be placed inside, even of obvious rifle cases. At that point, it's your fault that it has "Colt", "Kimber", Glock", "Winchester", "From my cold, dead, hands...", "Gun control is using both hands", or what ever... stickers all over the bag.
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