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Old August 15, 2018, 07:18 PM   #1
TXAZ
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“IF” you would consider letting others hog hunt on your land...

My BIL is thinking of leasing out some of his Texas ranch for hog hunts. No surprise he has a problem with the hogs beyond his capabilities
.
If you had a ranch what criteria would you use to allow hog hunters in and what would you charge?
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Old August 15, 2018, 08:06 PM   #2
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Verify hunters had a valid hunting license, and I would charge maybe $100-150 per day (24 hr period) and all kills must be processed/removed from the property. I would log all the hunters in with a valid state ID (a drivers license would be the preferred) I would let youth hunters accompanied by a legal guardian hunt for free, but the guardian still gets the normal fee and license criteria. I would allow camping but campsite must be left in the as found condition or any future hunts would not be allowed.

These rates are a hell of a lot less expensive than most day hunt ranches charge.
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Old August 15, 2018, 11:21 PM   #3
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My first preference would be to charge enough and provide enough value that I was likely to weed out the, uh... well, you know who I mean. I don't know how much that would be as I've never been involved in such business.

I would have an informal interview process at the very least, for weeding out of same. It doesn't take a lot of talking to identify people I don't want around, especially with firearms.

Also, I would create very detailed maps with allowed and not allowed areas clearly marked, areas for camping, fires, etc, clearly marked, usable and unusable paths/roads clearly marke, rules for OHVs, etc, etc.

I would also have a 1 warning policy, and that 1 warning happens when I explain the 1 warning policy before they start the hunt.
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Old August 16, 2018, 07:43 AM   #4
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If the hogs are indeed a problem, I'd keep the fee as low as possible. I'd ask other deer-lease ranchers for recommendations for potential customers.

I'd start with the cost of premiums for liability insurance and use that as a guide for fees.

I see Brian's ideas as good for interviews, maps and rules.
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Old August 16, 2018, 01:58 PM   #5
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Well it really depends on if he wants the hogs eradicated or wants to supplement his income? How much is his liability insurance going to increase by allowing hunters on his property? I sure wouldn't charge much if he just wants the hogs gone, but I'd charge enough to pay for a good insurance policy in case someone was hurt on my property from a hunting activities.
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Old August 16, 2018, 02:33 PM   #6
TXAZ
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Originally Posted by taylorce1 View Post
Well it really depends on if he wants the hogs eradicated or wants to supplement his income? How much is his liability insurance going to increase by allowing hunters on his property? I sure wouldn't charge much if he just wants the hogs gone, but I'd charge enough to pay for a good insurance policy in case someone was hurt on my property from a hunting activities.
Pure eradication of the existing parcel / herd / drift / drove of pigs.

If he 'just opened it up to any Tom, Dick or Harry' we can all accurately surmise where that would end up.
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Old August 16, 2018, 03:43 PM   #7
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I agree about the T, D, H.

I think your brother should consider trapping them first.

Usually, when we run the traps, a nightly score of 10-15 is common, but it is time consuming and a lot of work.

If he doesn't have the resources for trapping, it can be "hired" out.

We learned that you can never get rid of all of them, but can control them somewhat.

And, there is always sodium nitrite.
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Old August 16, 2018, 03:56 PM   #8
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Call your local military base MWR office and talk to them about organizing a day or two hunt for their soldiers. Hunting in Texas is incredibly difficult for military as leases are sky high, there's little public land, and they're not in the area long enough (or often enough) to build relationships.
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Old August 16, 2018, 05:17 PM   #9
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Thanks Dufus. Poisoning probably isn't going to fly. There is a concern of residual poison, even though some claim it's all metabolized...
I don't know if he's looked at the large traps or not. The small ones are virtually worthless, kinda like stomping on 1 ant.

Zoomie, I'll pass the Mil idea along, that's probably a win-win. Question is if they would have their own hunting rifles.
Thanks guys.
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Old August 16, 2018, 09:11 PM   #10
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Just my opinion.
Nope!! No sir's.

I do own a parcel of hunting land. 160 acres of old growth Minnesota forest.
I let a few fellows on my Posted land every year to hunt providing they eat what they harvest.

From what I've read very few Feral pig shooters practice that endeavor. Not at all my Bag gents.
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Old August 16, 2018, 09:48 PM   #11
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There is a ranch I go to work on gas wells and they use large magnetic numbers on the doors of the hunters pickups to help know who is who and to spot someone that should not be there.
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Old August 18, 2018, 01:34 AM   #12
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I never meant to imply he should allow anyone and everyone to hunt on his land, I'm sorry if I came across that way. I actually like the idea of hiring trappers or trapping them yourself. That sounds like the best way to put the biggest dent in the population the fastest.
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Old August 18, 2018, 02:11 AM   #13
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I let a few fellows on my Posted land every year to hunt providing they eat what they harvest.

From what I've read very few Feral pig shooters practice that endeavor. Not at all my Bag gents.
I ate the hogs I've shot in the past. I don't object to your opinion at all, but I don't object to the people that leave them lay either when they try to eradicate them. Hogs can do an extreme amount of damage to property in a short amount of time. If you have ever had an invasive species come in and destroy your property, I'd bet you would change your mind quickly as to having to harvest all the animals.

I've had to deal with prairie dogs a lot on my families property, and have had the amount of cattle we can run be diminished by more than 50% on that land. You can't kill them off fast enough with a rifle to make it an effective control method. Poisons aren't as good as they used to be at controlling them either, your best hope is the plague moves in and wipes the entire town out.

I also see your point, where feral hogs aren't much different from the pork people buy at the market. You see it as a waste of meat, but feral pigs are an invasive species and aren't regulated as a game animal in many states. Feral hogs also don't breed in the fall and birth in the spring like most wild game, they can produce a litter up to three times a year. That fact makes their population extremely hard to manage, with normal management tools we use on most game animals.

My opinion is states like TX will always have a feral pig problem as long as it is a money maker. Take the money out of pig hunting and you'll see the hog problem dealt with.
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Old August 18, 2018, 10:04 PM   #14
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Just a this fellows opinion:
Not me nor anyone else is allowed to kill on my land and leave their quarry lay for the birds irregardless of the animal status. "That's wonton taking of life as I see it."

Again Feral Pig was indeed around pit digging long before big land owners promoted their total eradication under Law. Again.
Their are Natural safe guards limiting all species of animals that inhabit this planet so to keep we animals from over populating. Bubonic plague. Avian influenza off the top of my mind for humans. Swine fever, brucellosis and trichinellosis plus Coyote and Cougar known to attack feral pig which helps keep such so called vermin in check. ~ Oops!
Those same expansive land owning individuals promoted some time back time did they not? "lets get rid of all mouse killing coyote and push those nasty bushwhacking Cougar to near extinction." >Auh~~ today's intelligent animal huggers some perhaps believe "that foolish doing just may turn out to be a huge mistake in controlling feral pig population."

So how's about some State politicians getting involved again at the behest of those same Ranchers & Farmers asking for the legal addition of baited live trapping pen's year round be allowed and shooting all pig trapped 2ft away in distance for quicker dispatch results is also acceptable. As Mothers Natures way is less responsive to those big land owners with their overwhelming dilemma. Oh well:

What happens else where isn't my business. Spouting off occasionally is kind'a fun though.~~
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Old August 18, 2018, 11:39 PM   #15
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Noting your repeated and snide "big land owners" quip, while you preside over your 160 acres. The total of the land I own is push-mowed in 25 minutes.

You are a "big land owner" to hundreds of millions of Americans.

Maybe not all the big land owners are bad folk.
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Old August 19, 2018, 11:27 AM   #16
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I'd get a lawyer and insurance agent to look at the proposition and set up a release for them to sign. Vetted them is a great idea.

Get copies of all necessary licenses for all involved.
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Old August 19, 2018, 11:43 AM   #17
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Tell him to look into the cost of liability insurance first. Charging for land use changes how the assorted laws, not just the fish and game laws, affect everything. If some guy stubs his toe while hunting he can sue for damages and probably win. Charging a fee means you're running a business and you must operate like you're running a business.
"...set up a release for them to sign..." Waivers usually don't mean squat, but it'd depend on State laws. Absolutely talk to a lawyer.
"...you know who I mean..." The rectal orifi? snicker.
"...Poisoning probably isn't going to fly..." Illegal in most places.
"...That's wonton..." That's a Chinese dumpling.
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Old August 19, 2018, 11:50 AM   #18
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"...That's wonton..." That's a Chinese dumpling.
Pork is a common wonton filling. So what's the problem?

Releases can be broken but are some defense.
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Old August 19, 2018, 02:07 PM   #19
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Just a this fellows opinion:
Not me nor anyone else is allowed to kill on my land and leave their quarry lay for the birds irregardless of the animal status. "That's wonton taking of life as I see it."
What about coyote or do you not allow coyote hunting on your 160 acres? Or do you feel predator control is wanton taking of life?


Quote:
Poisoning probably isn't going to fly..." Illegal in most places.
Poisoning of feral pigs in was the solution the State of TX came up with to deal with feral hogs. It was the people who made a living providing hunts for hogs that cried foul the loudest and got it stopped. So now Texas hands are pretty much tied, as hunting isn't controlling the population like it does with other game species.
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Old August 19, 2018, 02:17 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by taylorce1 View Post
What about coyote or do you not allow coyote hunting on your 160 acres? Or do you feel predator control is wanton taking of life?




Poisoning of feral pigs in was the solution the State of TX came up with to deal with feral hogs. It was the people who made a living providing hunts for hogs that cried foul the loudest and got it stopped. So now Texas hands are pretty much tied, as hunting isn't controlling the population like it does with other game species.
I'm sorry, but I have to sort of disagree with you about the professional hunting outfits getting the poisoning stopped in Texas. While we have some folks making money on the hogs, the majority of hogs killed in the state are by private individuals hunting on their own lands, or land belonging to acquaintances.
Poisoning was a bad idea in the first place and found people against it from the get go.
The amount of research into the side effects of poisoning hogs was not sufficient to allow such a thing to happen.
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Old August 20, 2018, 08:26 PM   #21
Sure Shot Mc Gee
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What about coyote or do you not allow coyote hunting on your 160 acres?
No stranger/s to date have ever asked permission.

As far as me controlling such doe/fawn molesting animals? I cruise my land every-so-often and always have a long barrel firearm of some sort along for those: just in case_ situations.
Like mice when the yote count needs to thinned. If the local Grey wolf don't catch em? My turn_"Hello how U been flat bolt 243 standing handsome in the corner of my National Security."

Quote:
You are a "big land owner" to hundreds of millions of Americans.
Well if that the case? I did something right {financially} years ago when the land became available in 91. Wasn't easy on the family or me paying the land debt off in >5 instead of 15 yrs. Ate allot of Spam sandwiches at work & Sunday special's: Salisbury steak & boiled potato suppers, so to accomplish that early pay-off land debt.

"No one gave me a 1 million dollars the day I left my parents home so to start my career with." I left my parents home having only gumption and integrity filling my Kit Bag.
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Old August 20, 2018, 09:38 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Old Stony
I'm sorry, but I have to sort of disagree with you about the professional hunting outfits getting the poisoning stopped in Texas. While we have some folks making money on the hogs, the majority of hogs killed in the state are by private individuals hunting on their own lands, or land belonging to acquaintances.
Poisoning was a bad idea in the first place and found people against it from the get go.
The amount of research into the side effects of poisoning hogs was not sufficient to allow such a thing to happen.
Actually the side effects of Warfarin on feral hogs is well documented, Australia was trying it back in the 80s and 90s. There is a lot of data on it if you want to sift through it all. Sodium Nitrate is probably the best option and the one the Australians are using to control their feral hog population.

Yes, a lot of people like to hunt hogs and that's great. It wasn't just the guide services complaining, I know it was much broader than that. Hog hunting is big business that brings in a lot of out of state hunters. They buy gas, hotels, food, hunting licenses and other things while visiting TX. Having a significant and rapid decrease in the feral hog population would have a huge economic impact on the state of TX especially in the rural parts of the state. Hog hunting is an industry in TX and other states and is big business if you'll admit it or not.

However, the argument let the hunters and trappers take care of them obviously isn't working. Believe me I see the appeal of hog hunting, it can be done year around, no bag limits, and it gives guys paying for a lease to hunt more opportunities to get out for a weekend than just the deer seasons. Again there is no incentive for hunters and trappers to really put a dent in the population.

All I'm really saying is take the money out of hog hunting, and the feral pig population will have to decline. With the money gone you'll have landowners and hunters alike begging for the pigs to be controlled. If there was never any hog hunting industry, then the OP's brother-in-law wouldn't have his current problem. I can't fault a landowner either for trying to make money off of something that his land supports, nor any other business that can profit from it that's how capitalism is supposed to work.
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Old August 21, 2018, 05:20 AM   #23
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My first preference would be to charge enough and provide enough value that I was likely to weed out the, uh... well, you know who I mean. I don't know how much that would be as I've never been involved in such business.
From hunting over half a century, I've yet to see where income/money had anything at all to do with hunter ethics or environmental stewardship. Some of the biggest slob hunters I've witnessed were driving brand new pick-ups and had all the latest gear. Setting your price high is just giving folks high expectations. If one really wants to just eradicate the hogs then you need numbers or quality hunters....not just folks with deep pockets. I don't understand the idea that one needs to have an exterminator pay them for getting rid of nuisance animals.

In Wisconsin, as long as you do not charge folks to hunt on your land, you can not be liable for anything that happens to them, as long as you are not grossly negligent. This is so landowners do not have to worry about being sued after being nice and allowing hunter access.

If it was me, and I wanted folks to eradicate hogs on my property, I would allow anyone who wanted to hunt them do so for free until the problem was gone. I would be a bit discriminatory about who I let on, but, how much damage could they do in comparison to leaving the hogs do their stuff?
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Old August 21, 2018, 10:12 AM   #24
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Well if that the case? I did something right {financially} years ago when the land became available in 91. Wasn't easy on the family or me paying the land debt off in >5 instead of 15 yrs. Ate allot of Spam sandwiches at work & Sunday special's: Salisbury steak & boiled potato suppers, so to accomplish that early pay-off land debt.

"No one gave me a 1 million dollars the day I left my parents home so to start my career with." I left my parents home having only gumption and integrity filling my Kit Bag.
I like that!
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Old August 21, 2018, 03:51 PM   #25
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Quote:
My BIL is thinking of leasing out some of his Texas ranch for hog hunts. No surprise he has a problem with the hogs beyond his capabilities
.
If you had a ranch what criteria would you use to allow hog hunters in and what would you charge?
Well right there, your brother has a conflict of interest. I understand the notion of making money for hog hunts. I also understand the problem with hogs. Once you starting leasing your land for hog hunts, hogs become less of a problem because they become a cash commodity. The people who lease their land to get rid of their hogs never really want the hogs gone because of the cash income.

If he is going to lease, I would suggest leasing to an outfitter instead of leasing to individual hunters. Have a contractual agreement with the outfitter and so only have one legal agreement with which to contend and only have the hassle of dealing with one entity.

You want an outfitter that is running hunts through the area on a regular basis. By making his property one of their regular stops, the property will get hit on a regular basis and that will keep the pressure on the hogs on a more consistent basis.

He won't make as much from the outfitter, but he also won't have to deal with all of the phone calls from allowing day hunts. He won't have to give the property tours over and over again. Etc. Day leasing will ultimately yield more money, at least for a while, but also just be a lot more hassle, particularly when clients are unhappy. With an outfitter running numerous properties, the outfitter handles all that.

He could lease to an individual, but few individuals are going to keep much regular pressure on the property. Maybe he could find the right person to be out there every weekend, but most individuals will let things slide if they aren't seeing any hogs on a regular basis.
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