Carjacking scenario -- tactics? - Page 2

JERRYS. · July 7, 2019, 11:03 AM

there is no substitute for common sense.

TXAZ · July 7, 2019, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JERRYS.

there is no substitute for common sense.

If it were truly common, that's true. But it's not.

The situationally aware will remain vigilant. The others will become prey.

Brit · July 9, 2019, 10:19 PM

Jamaica has carry permits. My Buddy, an IPSC shooter, carries all the time. He is always asking us to visit, great shot as well.
When I first obtained a pistol license in Florida. My Son was a Citizen, we, my Wife and I are now as well. Before 911! So when I crossed the border at Detroit, first chance I had, up the trunk, Gun out and 14 rounds in, one in breach. First carry was a BHP.

When going from the Bridge exit, weird back streets to get to I 75 South.
Now lost, looking up at what appeared to be Hwy 75. But I was below it, crappy street. This trip I was on my own.

Stopped at the end of the Street, stop sign. Tall young black guy, nice suit, leather briefcase, turned window on passenger side down, 4". Asked for directions to I 75, he put his case down, smiled, tried to shove his hand in, other hand on top of the glass, attempted to push it down.

My Browning was under my right thigh, hand on the grip. I brought it up, to the window, he squealed like a cat when you step on its tail, stepped back, fell down! I think he fell over his case.

Took a while but I found the road! That was a long time ago, but I will not forget that shock! After a while, my right leg was shaking, drove left-footed for a while.

davidsog · July 27, 2019, 09:55 AM

Carjacking was a likely scenario in many Third World nations. It was especially prevalent in Central and South America.

Good advice about locking your door and maintaining situational awareness. That is your best defense.

Make sure you carry your weapon in such a manner you can access it while seated. Think about the fact the the carjacker will have the jump on you so plan to wait for his attention to be directed somewhere else. Being right handed and having your pistol on your strong side leaves it in the same location as your seatbelt release.

Be aware you can shoot thru glass as well as shoot while seated pistol over your shoulder and behind you. I recommend practicing both. If you do not know the techniques then take a class.

Good time is the transition as you exit and he enters the vehicle. Be aware that he might know that and try to strike you to keep you disorientated during that transition. Be cognizant, block, get out the way, and look for your moment he is distracted to draw.

Most importantly, practice your draw and engagement. Practice, Practice, Practice.

You should be able to draw and holster your weapon without looking at it or searching for it. Your eyes need to remain on the threat not your pistol.

If you cannot do basic skills then your CCW is more of a liability than a self defense tool.

briandg · July 27, 2019, 02:17 PM

Quote:

I met young honeymooning couple who'd had a terrifying experience. They rented their own car, and ventured out to some remote spot trying to find a hiking trail. Down some windy, isolated side street, a man ran out in front of their slowly driving car and stopped them. He asked where they were going (and they told him), so he ran to the side, opened the back door and climbed in the car with them! Saying he had directions. So, terrified, they followed his directions. Thankfully for them, he actually did bring them to where they wanted to go -- but then demanded money for his service. They just gave him what was in their wallet and he went on his way.

He never threatened them overtly, never showed or suggested a weapon, they didn't argue or resist with their money, so I don't know if it even counts as robbery. But I've been wondering ever since, what I could have/should have done in such a scenario (beyond what I already did, which was not to venture out into unknown territory with bad directions, looking like a lost tourist!)

This has always been a commonplace thing. Local 'guides' latch onto wealthy looking people and grab on hard. they don't commit any offense, but they always look for easy marks. People who will feel threatened or nervous, and afraid of rejecting his favors.

Imagine this. You're old, retired, wise. You see an old couple going into a barbecue restaurant that you know is always full of violent biker thugs. I'd suggest to them that they move on to another place where the food is better and the clientele is safer. If I was a different guy, i'd offer to show them how to get there. maybe we would all winde up having memphis style ribs at the "blues bash", rather than boiled pork shoulder at "the shattered bone." A pushy tour guide in a port city will be less subtle

davidsog · July 29, 2019, 09:04 AM

One other thing to add in regards to situational awareness and leaving your options open.

Never get closer to the vehicle in front of you so that you drive out should something happen. It is common in the third world for example for criminals to use motorcycles to get to their victims roadside.

When you park or stop always ensure you can see the entire rear tire of the vehicle in front of you. That is a quick rule of thumb that ensure you can clearance to get out from behind them if necessary.

TunnelRat · July 29, 2019, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidsog

One other thing to add in regards to situational awareness and leaving your options open.

Never get closer to the vehicle in front of you so that you drive out should something happen. It is common in the third world for example for criminals to use motorcycles to get to their victims roadside.

When you park or stop always ensure you can see the entire rear tire of the vehicle in front of you. That is a quick rule of thumb that ensure you can clearance to get out from behind them if necessary.

I had a driving instructor that used to give the same advice. I don't think he had security in mind, but more manuvering around disabled vehicles. Never thought of it this way. Good tip.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

FireForged · July 30, 2019, 06:53 AM

distances is good common sense but don't let it create a false sense of security. distance is easily overcome and you don't control what others do. If the guy in front of you is part of it, he can easily back up. If you leave such a gap that you can drive around, its probably pretty easy for someone to nose another vehicle in the gap at an angle. People who target people in vehicles are not typically working alone.

For the most part, the whole "situational awareness" issue is a fallacy. Sure, you should pay attention but a person working alone without the aid of tech or a team is not likely going to be able to develop a meaningful awareness regarding their "situation" by relying solely on a primary 180 degree ( intermittent 360) single point observation at eye level. That said, you have no chance to thwart bad actors if you do not pay attention so, YES.. you should pay attention. Situational Awareness is a much larger endeavor altogether and I believe that most people are using the term improperly.

A persons "situations" encompasses a much larger area than the coffee shop they currently occupy. Again, you are not likely to get a handle on all that by yourself. Not unless you are using some impressive tech.

**Aguila Blanca** · July 30, 2019, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FireForged

distances is good common sense but don't let it create a false sense of security. distance is easily overcome and you don't control what others do. If the guy in front of you is part of it, he can easily back up. If you leave such a gap that you can drive around, its probably pretty easy for someone to nose another vehicle in the gap at an angle. People who target people in vehicles are not typically working alone.

That's a very good point, and something I had not considered even when driving through neighborhoods that cause me to remember to leave escape space.

briandg · July 30, 2019, 09:40 PM

My daughter is a deep state liberal and a true lover of humanity. Cue the rolling eyes. The other day I drove past her apartment and saw a derelict hanging out by her parking lot. I said 'hmmm' and she said 'give it a rest dad, he's probably just tired'. There is an alley on the other side of the building near her entrance where I normally drop her off. Swung around the corner, stopped by the back entrance, and we talked for a few minutes before I left.

Whoa. The derelict from the front had circled around from the other side and started coming up the alley towards us. Got out and walked her to her door. Did he dumpster dive or look at the cars? No. He didn't do anything unusual. He was just a ragged man that was hanging around outside a parking garage, who left that parking garage to walk down an alley in a sort of rough area. If he had dug through the trash I would have felt more confident that he wasn't any sort of a criminal threat.

Yes, she would have walked right past him without thinking, and wouldn't have locked her doors as she drove past him. She always seems to believe that she is magically protected from the possible presence of bad guys.

**Aguila Blanca** · July 30, 2019, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by briandg

Yes, she would have walked right past him without thinking, and wouldn't have locked her doors as she drove past him. She always seems to believe that she is magically protected from the possible presence of bad guys.

Sounds like my daughter -- who has been mugged three times in three years at university.

Smart kid, but zero situational awareness.

briandg · July 31, 2019, 01:26 AM

In her case it's not so much situational awareness but naivety. She just thinks that it doesn't apply to her.

Brit · August 2, 2019, 04:13 AM

Our little Jeep Cherokee locks all the doors at 15 MPH. AC is your friend.
I gave my Son advice when he was 18 YOA! Nothing good happens after midnight, in any City, anywhere!

He goes out for a meal, with his Wife, my Wife and I babysit. He Ubers. This way I don't worry too much. He is still my Lad, at 57 YOA. A Glock 43 lives in his back pocket. My 43X likes a nice snug holster a lot.

When we go out for Supper, my Wife and I. My limit is one glass of Red Wine. The French say it is good for you.

After the meal, I recover Jeep, pick her up at the door.
A terrible method I watch the Young Guys use. He presses door release, he enters the driver's door. His young Lady walks around the vehicle on her own, gets in the vehicle! A 10-second walk.

I pop the lock, me standing with my 75-year-old Lady at her door. Make sure she safely negotiates the step, hi heels and all. Lock door. Slam.
My door, me in, lock as I close the door. If I can, back in. Seat belts and go.

This method worked in Australia/England/The Continent/Canada/ and my last move. The good old USA! Of course, armed now.

**Aguila Blanca** · August 2, 2019, 07:20 AM

Quote:

I pop the lock, me standing with my 75-year-old Lady at her door. Make sure she safely negotiates the step, hi heels and all. Lock door. Slam.

Like a proper gentleman. That's the way I was raised by my grandparents.

Chivalry is dead in the United States.

TailGator · August 2, 2019, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Chivalry is dead in the United States.

No, but it's badly wounded. ;-)

How many shut the car off and pocket the keys when we escort our dear ones to the car door? If we don't we risk someone jumping into the driver seat and leaving with them and the car. Push button ignitions are even worse - no key required if there is a thingamajig in her purse or your nearby pocket.

My point isn't to criticize those who don't, but to point out that I'm not sure there is a completely risk-free way to go about this.

MTT TL · August 19, 2019, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FITASC

My wife and I have been in the Islands many times; have rented cars or hired a one-man tour guide to see the "REAL" side of things. The folks are genuinely friendly, poor, and looking to make a buck, not commit a crime and then deal with their police. Didn't matter whether it was The Bahamas, BVI, USVI, Jamaica, St. Martin, Dominica, etc.

Those places aren't like east St. Louis or Camden, etc. The cultural differences are very stark compared to what you experience here.

No, they are much worse. I don't know when the last time you went to USVI was but they now have the 4th highest murder rate in the world and their murder rate is more than ten times that of the US. You couldn't pay me to visit.

http://vifreepress.com/2018/01/unite...overall-world/

July 30, 2019, 06:53 AM	#33
FireForged Senior Member Join Date: November 4, 1999 Location: Rebel South USA Posts: 2,074	distances is good common sense but don't let it create a false sense of security. distance is easily overcome and you don't control what others do. If the guy in front of you is part of it, he can easily back up. If you leave such a gap that you can drive around, its probably pretty easy for someone to nose another vehicle in the gap at an angle. People who target people in vehicles are not typically working alone. For the most part, the whole "situational awareness" issue is a fallacy. Sure, you should pay attention but a person working alone without the aid of tech or a team is not likely going to be able to develop a meaningful awareness regarding their "situation" by relying solely on a primary 180 degree ( intermittent 360) single point observation at eye level. That said, you have no chance to thwart bad actors if you do not pay attention so, YES.. you should pay attention. Situational Awareness is a much larger endeavor altogether and I believe that most people are using the term improperly. A persons "situations" encompasses a much larger area than the coffee shop they currently occupy. Again, you are not likely to get a handle on all that by yourself. Not unless you are using some impressive tech. __________________ Life is a web woven by necessity and chance...

July 30, 2019, 09:40 PM	#35
briandg Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2010 Posts: 5,468	My daughter is a deep state liberal and a true lover of humanity. Cue the rolling eyes. The other day I drove past her apartment and saw a derelict hanging out by her parking lot. I said 'hmmm' and she said 'give it a rest dad, he's probably just tired'. There is an alley on the other side of the building near her entrance where I normally drop her off. Swung around the corner, stopped by the back entrance, and we talked for a few minutes before I left. Whoa. The derelict from the front had circled around from the other side and started coming up the alley towards us. Got out and walked her to her door. Did he dumpster dive or look at the cars? No. He didn't do anything unusual. He was just a ragged man that was hanging around outside a parking garage, who left that parking garage to walk down an alley in a sort of rough area. If he had dug through the trash I would have felt more confident that he wasn't any sort of a criminal threat. Yes, she would have walked right past him without thinking, and wouldn't have locked her doors as she drove past him. She always seems to believe that she is magically protected from the possible presence of bad guys. __________________ None.

July 31, 2019, 01:26 AM	#37
briandg Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2010 Posts: 5,468	In her case it's not so much situational awareness but naivety. She just thinks that it doesn't apply to her. __________________ None.

July 7, 2019, 11:03 AM	#26
JERRYS. Senior Member Join Date: September 23, 2013 Location: Alabama Posts: 2,968	there is no substitute for common sense.

July 9, 2019, 10:19 PM	#28
Brit Senior Member Join Date: January 29, 2005 Location: Orlando FL Posts: 1,934	Jamaica has carry permits. My Buddy, an IPSC shooter, carries all the time. He is always asking us to visit, great shot as well. When I first obtained a pistol license in Florida. My Son was a Citizen, we, my Wife and I are now as well. Before 911! So when I crossed the border at Detroit, first chance I had, up the trunk, Gun out and 14 rounds in, one in breach. First carry was a BHP. When going from the Bridge exit, weird back streets to get to I 75 South. Now lost, looking up at what appeared to be Hwy 75. But I was below it, crappy street. This trip I was on my own. Stopped at the end of the Street, stop sign. Tall young black guy, nice suit, leather briefcase, turned window on passenger side down, 4". Asked for directions to I 75, he put his case down, smiled, tried to shove his hand in, other hand on top of the glass, attempted to push it down. My Browning was under my right thigh, hand on the grip. I brought it up, to the window, he squealed like a cat when you step on its tail, stepped back, fell down! I think he fell over his case. Took a while but I found the road! That was a long time ago, but I will not forget that shock! After a while, my right leg was shaking, drove left-footed for a while.

July 27, 2019, 09:55 AM	#29
davidsog Senior Member Join Date: January 13, 2018 Posts: 1,326	Carjacking was a likely scenario in many Third World nations. It was especially prevalent in Central and South America. Good advice about locking your door and maintaining situational awareness. That is your best defense. Make sure you carry your weapon in such a manner you can access it while seated. Think about the fact the the carjacker will have the jump on you so plan to wait for his attention to be directed somewhere else. Being right handed and having your pistol on your strong side leaves it in the same location as your seatbelt release. Be aware you can shoot thru glass as well as shoot while seated pistol over your shoulder and behind you. I recommend practicing both. If you do not know the techniques then take a class. Good time is the transition as you exit and he enters the vehicle. Be aware that he might know that and try to strike you to keep you disorientated during that transition. Be cognizant, block, get out the way, and look for your moment he is distracted to draw. Most importantly, practice your draw and engagement. Practice, Practice, Practice. You should be able to draw and holster your weapon without looking at it or searching for it. Your eyes need to remain on the threat not your pistol. If you cannot do basic skills then your CCW is more of a liability than a self defense tool.

July 29, 2019, 09:04 AM	#31
davidsog Senior Member Join Date: January 13, 2018 Posts: 1,326	One other thing to add in regards to situational awareness and leaving your options open. Never get closer to the vehicle in front of you so that you drive out should something happen. It is common in the third world for example for criminals to use motorcycles to get to their victims roadside. When you park or stop always ensure you can see the entire rear tire of the vehicle in front of you. That is a quick rule of thumb that ensure you can clearance to get out from behind them if necessary.

August 2, 2019, 04:13 AM	#38
Brit Senior Member Join Date: January 29, 2005 Location: Orlando FL Posts: 1,934	Our little Jeep Cherokee locks all the doors at 15 MPH. AC is your friend. I gave my Son advice when he was 18 YOA! Nothing good happens after midnight, in any City, anywhere! He goes out for a meal, with his Wife, my Wife and I babysit. He Ubers. This way I don't worry too much. He is still my Lad, at 57 YOA. A Glock 43 lives in his back pocket. My 43X likes a nice snug holster a lot. When we go out for Supper, my Wife and I. My limit is one glass of Red Wine. The French say it is good for you. After the meal, I recover Jeep, pick her up at the door. A terrible method I watch the Young Guys use. He presses door release, he enters the driver's door. His young Lady walks around the vehicle on her own, gets in the vehicle! A 10-second walk. I pop the lock, me standing with my 75-year-old Lady at her door. Make sure she safely negotiates the step, hi heels and all. Lock door. Slam. My door, me in, lock as I close the door. If I can, back in. Seat belts and go. This method worked in Australia/England/The Continent/Canada/ and my last move. The good old USA! Of course, armed now.