Canton OH Police CCW Holder Encounter

[shortwave]

I should have added something in my last post.

I agree with maestro pistolero that the City of Canton will probably still do everything in its power to try and strike an out-of-court settlement with the ccw holder.

I would almost bet that there's a standing offer to the ccw holder as we speak. Also a very good possibilty that due to deal negotiations between city officials and ccw holder, thats the reason for the postponement.

This case is like a slow- motion train wreck

Yep! ...and what your seeing is a case in which someone finally had the guts to stand up to city hall and not accept some BS deal like that was originally offered.

What a joke.....' We're(as in the Canton prosecuting attorney) are willing to drop all charges (of which shouldn't have been filed in the first place and will get thrown out of court should it go there) on you if you don't sue the City of Canton.'
Doesn't sound like a very good 'deal ' for the victim does it?

Problem is, many people would have accepted this so called deal cause they are intimidated by 'city hall' and just want everything to go away so to speak.

I'm glad this case got the attention it did as it shows just how bad the 'system' in Canton is broken:

they've got a 14yr veteran cop on the street that for whatever reason feels justified in using his authority to threaten /intimidate citizens and is comfortable enough to do it knowing he's on film.

they've got a PA that feels justified in offering a private 'hush' deal to a citizen who's rights have been victimized by a city LEO. We also have to remember that this same PA has probably seen other previous dashcam video's of Harless in action since he's probably prosecuted previous cases in which Harless was involved.

they've got brass,from the safety director on down, in the Canton PD that have viewed the tape of Harless and have not arrested him. They too have probably seen past vids of Harless in action.

lastly, they've got at least one city leader,Canton City Council President Schulman, that with his own statements, of which he feels Ohio's current gun laws are bringing the guns into his community, is against cc for decent citizens and is against the basic right for one to be able to defend one's own life...
...which as I posted before, his feelings cost the City of Canton and business's therein(Football Hall of Fame,motels,restaurants,gas stations etc.) anywhere from $2000-$3000 just recently as our family decided not to stay in a city that has leaders with this attitude. I wasn't able to let Schulman know what he cost Canton directly as he wouldn't answer his phone but I was able to leave it on a message for him as well as a message for the mayor.

We all ended up staying about 2mi.(as the crow flies) from my house in the 'Old Man's Cave' area.. Everybody from out of town rented chalet's but wife and I stayed at our house along with some nieces and nephews.

Back on topic.

Yea, IMO, the 'system' in Canton is broke to say the least!

I just hope the ccw holder stands his ground and he, and the citizens of Canton don't let this get swept under the rug , demand it be fixed and pay better attention to the people that are running their city...I.E. Schulmans term as Council Pres. is up in Dec. (I think).

If that doesn't happen, it will be just a matter of time before something similar happens again.

[Hitthespot]

Boy do I disagree. This guy is screwed.

Are you guys actually following this thing between the lines.

1) There has been no arrest of the officer involved.
2) The city council president basically upheld the officer, and blamed the laws in place.
3) The video is explicid, they are still following through with the court case against the defendant.
4) The city of Canton has made it very apparent they don't care about phone calls, emails, etc.... from anyone. In other words, were the boss and we'll do what we want.

Who's going to help this guy? The judge who has dinner and plays golf with the city council president and the the mayor twice a month. These people actually believe they are above the public and the law.

If the public, or the FBI ( some higher authority) doesn't get whole heartedly involved in this thing, he's screwed.

That's my opinion.

[youngunz4life]

basically - at least the way I see it - the Officer's disciplinary hearing will be over before this cab driver even goes to trial(or at least while it is still in process).

Harless will get a month off from work w/no pay and he will choose not to appeal or even ask for 'time served'. In other words and in my opinion, Harless will miss another month from work after his "hearing" is adjudicated. Whether or not he has any more time to use towards the 30days is unknown @ this time even if he can use it.

This sort of reminds me of the kid who gets arrested for drugs in college. He gets a serious talking to and picks up trash one sunday mrng after some guy at the education center or whatever scares him half to death and gives him this assignment...while at the same time some non-college kid down the street gets a felony or at least a misdemeanor on his record after a court case, fees, article in the paper, and other stresses.

Don't get me wrong, sometimes an example is made out of the college kid and he is kicked out of school...same w/police; just not this time as Harless will get off. Show me any evidence that it seems he might be fired. He'll probably even keep it of his permanent record(like if he transfers depts someday or whatever as one example).

[shortwave]

You guys might be right. Hard to say with the idiotic steps and the blatant disregard for justice that the city of Canton has displayed thus far.

One would think that the ccw holders counsel will assure that his client will be treated fairly in accordance with the law....there will be alot of eyes on this case if it does go to trial. I doubt there's going to be a Judge in Canton willing to mar his/her reputation cause of dirty politics. One never knows.

Also, as far as Harless goes, I hope the City of Canton leaders realize the future liability Harless would bring to them if they were to re-employ him back on the street. If ya think this case makes Canton look ugly, what do ya think Canton officials would look like if they allowed him back on the street and something like this or worse happened.

This case has got national attention with a LE dashcam vid. showing Harless threatening to shoot a citizen, threatening citizen with further harrassment,disregarding all proper basic LE procedures taught for a stop and along with the fact his actions CLEARLY show signs he is a ticking time-bomb.

Not only do I think he won't be on the street in Canton, I don't think any other PD in the country would touch him. Least I hope not as he has no business doing police work.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not convinced Harless will ever get arrested as he should, I just don't think he'll return to the street and more than likely will go out on some kind of dissability. Which may be why he's currently on paid sick leave. Think about it, he's got the perfect vid. thats been shown nationwide to show his mental statis is not right.

We'll see.

[Aguila Blanca]

Perhaps I'm just a hopeless optimist (although I'm a senior citizen and nobody has EVER called me an optimist before), but I'm just not seeing all the doom and gloom some others are apparently seeing. I won't speculate how the "citizen's" case will go if/when it gets to court, but my guess is that with the video he's likely to have the charges dismissed.

As to Officer Harless -- I think it's pretty clear that he's toast. The department does have to follow the rules established in the collective bargaining agreement with the union, but it seems clear to me that the department is just going through the motions until they can cut the guy loose.

This is case number two -- and it's just the second case with a video that has gone Internet viral. You can pretty well bet that there are more such incidents, and you can pretty well bet that the department is aware of them. Until now, they may have tolerated such behavior, maybe even tacitly encouraged it -- but the kitty cat is now out of the bag. Officer Harless is now "unclean." He's a walking, talking liability nightmare for the city and the police department. Now that the whole world knows this clown is a thug in a uniform, there's just no way they can afford to allow him back on duty. Not gonna happen.

[armoredman]

Harless has a lot of options to fight termination through the union. I have ridden this tiger before, and it's no fun whatsoever. His admin investigation won't be completed for some time, as appeals and such can drag this out a loooong time, and then we see if he qualifies for donated leave time - will his buddies on the force donate their leave time to him to keep being paid while fighting his possible termination? Time will tell.
Hitthespot, even if the judge IS the Chief's best buddy, the case can only go up, to someone who they don't hang out with. If the Ohio Concealed Carry guys can keep whipping up donations for his legal fund, this could go far indeed, with possible consequences like Miranda.

[shortwave]

Alot of times as far as a gov't agency is concerned, in this case the City of Cantons PD, it's apparent they are not going to file criminal charges against him but it wouldn't surprise me if the city officials don't sit down with Harless and lay everything on the line to him. Telling him he can resign and still get his pension plus what the city paid into his retirement or if the city has to go to the expense of firing him and succeeds, then Harless would only get from his retirement what he paid in and not what the city matched.

That can amount to several thous. dollars that Harless is gambling with if the city is successful in firing him.

I've seen this tactic used many times and with some employee's having as much as 20+yrs.

I don't ever recall an employee taking the 'YOUR FIRED' route.

Course I don't know the legalities, but I wonder if the City of Canton PD brass can tell Harless "either you resign or we're going to press criminal charges on you....then YOUR FIRED".

Again, I can't stress enough to the citizens, especially those of Canton, if you want this guy off the street, call every city leader, local newspapers and radio stations expressing your wishes....this was very important when the City of Cols.,Ohio fired the Cols. fireman for hanging his dog from his basement rafters and using it for target practice. The public outcry for this POS's job was tremendous and reflected greatly at his hearing. An LEO is a public servant just like a fireman.

[pnac]

Not to sound too cynical or anything, but what if Harless has some "dirt" on one or more city officials? That might explain his "I'm above the law" behavior and the city's reluctance to prosecute.

[Hitthespot]

Well you folks seem more positive than me that justice will prevail. I guess if I thought justice was going to prevail Hairless would have been arrested the next day, like he should have been. But again, since most of you seem confident justice is coming, after this post I'll just sit back and watch and see what happens, rather that continuing to stir the pot and keeping everyones feathers in an up roar. However I'll state for the record that justice to me is not harless getting fired or paid sick leave, or taking sebatical for two years. How his work handles his unprofessional behavior has nothing to do with justice. He threatened to kill someone and harass them continuously. I would have been arrested the next day. I expect no special treatment for him. Is a matter of fact even the state of Ohio states he is to be held to a HIGHER standard. If so he should be sitting in jail and made an example out of. Justice is not prevailing so far. We have got so used to nothing happening, and it's getting watered down through the luxury of time, that were waiting on him to get disaplinary action. Who cares about disaplinary action. Put him the same place I'd have to go if I got taped doing the same thing. I will tell you one thing, if I was the defendent I would demand this went way outside their jurisdiction. No way would I go to a Canton court room. Talk about walking into a mine field. OK I'm shutting up now.

I apologize if I seem a little one sided. I'm usually pretty level minded and open minded. But the fact that his blatent behaviour can go unpunished has me fuming for some reason.

PS. PNAC your post made me laugh. Your almost stating the obvious. Their making themselves look crooked, they don't need any help from anyone else, but to tell you the truth, I don't think they give a damn.

[Aguila Blanca]

The victim of all this (the permit holder who was threatened by Harless) could push things by making a Federal complaint of deprivation of rights under color of law. I fully expect that's in the wings, but I also expect that if he were to file that complaint now, the city would try to use it as another chip in the negotiations. ("Drop the Federal complaint or we'll continue to persecute -- errr, prosecute -- your case.") They must know the possibility is out there and I'm sure they are seeking ways to forestall it, but I would like to think the victim is holding that ace in his sleeve.

[shortwave]

Well you folks seem more postive than me justice will prevail

....ooops, you must have misunderstood my post. If mine is the one you're referring to.

I didn't say Harless would be arrested. IMO, justice would be, Harless already been arrested and sitting in jail, not drawing a dime of money from any kind of leave.

My posts have been related to how I think things may go from here on out.

Too, I don't feel it would be a long shot at all if the city would threaten criminal charges against Harless if he refused to resign. Hopefully they'll just fire him.

What I can't understand and am sure there is a reason, is why the ccw holder himself has not went down and filed charges against Harless.

[drcook]

another news update from the Canton Repository

http://www.cantonrep.com/newsnow/x65...violated-rules

[MLeake]

shortwave, I don't know how the system works in Ohio, but in many states private citizens can sign criminal complaints, but only the DA's office can press charges. In many cases, the DA's office may opt not to do so.

[Hitthespot]

Shortwave---myposts haven't been directed at anybody in peticular. I have pretty much agreed with your point of view, that's for sure. I just don't find the same peace of mind that everything will end as it should, that others seem to have. I hope their right and I'm wrong.

drcook---thanks for the article. Once again nothing about justice, just interdepartmental bull. Seems so low priority to me compared to what any normal, honest American should be concerned with.

Oh, I love in the article that their still complaining about the phone calls and emails; it's impeding their investigation. DO WHAT YOUR SUPPOSE TO DO AND THE PHONE CALLS AND EMAILS WILL STOP. I'm dying with laughter here. There is something very very wrong in Canton.

Aquila---if the defendent has the right to file a Federal complaint/charges, I sure hope it's coming. I don't see any satisfaction coming from Canton.

Mleake---There is no doubt that is a huge part of the problem. The DA is right in there with them. I would also think that these offices would work independently of one another. I mean I know they have to work together to procecute criminals but cmon. They are obviously meeting with each other and working to their own benifit or the cities, they are definitely not working on upholding the law. The DA had more than enough evidence to bring a case against the officer, yet to date nothing, (and this has nothing to do with his works disaplinary case) nothings been done. In my mind it has become a joke. Integrity, Integrity, Integrity. I say it's time for the FBI to start filing some charges. There has to be laws that are being broken on this thing. This just can't be right.

[armoredman]

another news update from the Canton Repository

Well, that was surprisingly fast, fueled by public outrage. Hopefully this isn't the end of it.

[shortwave]

Thanks MLeake,

Apparently Barlett has filed a complaint with IA according to the latest update drcook posted.

I'm more encouraged by IA's findings report.

I'll miss my guess if Harless does not resign prior to his discplinary hearing date.

Also know one thing for sure, city leaders, especially the mayor, DO NOT LIKE embarrassment or negative attention caused to their city by one of their employee's. Especially when the bad attention is coming from not only that cities citizens, but citizens from all over the country.

Just a note on the grand scheme of things:

Negative PR of this magnitude to a city usually warrants a meeting between the 'big money' people in the city and the mayor in which he's told in 'not so polite' terms, thats so there's no misunderstanding, that if this bad PR doesn't go away, you Mr Mayor will not be a candidate for re-election next term. The money people don't really care how the mayor handles the bad situation so long as the bad PR stops.

If the calls keep pouring into the newspaper,radio/TV stations, etc., I'm sure one of these meetings will take place if it hasn't happened already.

Thats politics for ya

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by shortwave

I'm more encouraged by IA's findings report.

I'll miss my guess if Harless does not resign prior to his discplinary hearing date.

I'm unclear from the article if the victim's complaint will result in another IA investigation, or if this report is the report arising out of the investigation of his complaint. I don't think IA typically investigates without a complaint, so I think this is it.

It's not a whitewash, but it's not exactly a full broadside, either. Yes, I would say calling a member of the public an MF and threatening to blow his [bleep]ing head of might reflect poorly on the department. Very incisive on the part of IA.

The disturbing part is that the punishment could be as light as 30 days off. It is my devout hope that Officer Harless has generated sufficient undesirable attention on the canton PD that they will unload him as quickly as their administrative process allows.

THEN the victim can file his Federal "1982" complaint about deprivation of rights under color of law.

[shortwave]

AB,

Your probably right about this IA report being the result of the complaint filed by Bartlett.

Can't imagine what the departmental investigation findings will be. Harless broke so many departmental policies in this film and his partner broke a few as well.

I can see a copy of this vid. being distributed to academy's across the nation showing cadets how NOT to handle a stop. What a list of screw ups.

The instructors showing these vids. will end their presentation by saying " if you're dumb enough to employ these pee poor tactics during a stop, do NOT be stupid enough to have your dashcam pointing at you".

[drcook]

Newsnet5 is reporting that they now have a 3rd video of Harless

http://www.newsnet5.com/dpp/news/local_ ... th-threats

The police chief says he never knew there was a problem. I bet the mayor and folks in Canton are just besides themselves. I now wonder when the Feds are going to get involved in this

[maestro pistolero]

That link has been taken down already. Try This http://www.newsnet5.com/dpp/news/loc...-death-threatsAt the end of the vid it's sounds like Harless says "I'll kill him next time", or is it my imagination?

[Aguila Blanca]

NewsChannel5's investigators also obtained hundreds of pages of records on Harless, including more than one dozen other internal affairs complaints.

We asked Chief Dean McKimm about why nothing has been done until now. He said until he saw the tapes, he never knew Harless had any problems.

Either the chief never talks to the IA people and they never talk to the chief (unlikely), or those dozen previous complaints were whitewashed sufficiently to keep the guy on the street (much more likely).

This is why cities should have citizens' review boards, either instead or or in addition to Internal Affairs. Unfortunately, too many IA investigators harbor a strong bias in favor of the officer.

[youngunz4life]

3 strikes you're out...a 3rd video and he is all done

he still could slip thru the cracks and up w/another dept sometimes in a different or same state.HAPPENS ALL THE TIME

[youngunz4life]

http://www.newsnet5.com/dpp/news/loc...-a-second-time

probably a repeat but I had trouble hearing video 3 so I tuned in for the easy to hear video 2 for its 3 minutes. The Chief has to hold some responsibility for this.

[Hitthespot]

None if these new revelations surprise me in the least. We all know the mental / personality problems this officer is exhibiting didn't just develope in the last couple months. We all know his behaviour has been swept under the rug and probably condoned. This is corrruption on a larger scale than just him. I'll bet they've had a riot sitting around the station laughing at the video tapes this guy has made. The chief didn't know? That's so funny it's sad. They state in the article there is at least a dozen internal affairs complaints.

It's time to give the city of Canton what they want. Stop the emails and phone calls to them, and start sending them to the FBI. This has now gone beyond the officer and gone beyond anything that is acceptable in the U.S.A.

The ONLY thing I'm shocked about is that they didn't destroy these tapes.

[shortwave]

...sounds like Harless says "I'll kill him next time"...

I thought the same thing but I don't have ext. speakers hooked up to this computor. Hard to be sure.

Either the chief never talks to the IA people and they never talk to the chief(unlikely) or those dozen previous complaints were whitewashed...

If there were any convictions in those dozen(I think 16 complaints in his jacket to be exact) at least the prosecuting att'y reviewed the films as evidence. Course depending on when the complaints took place, its possible Harless was able to turn the dashcam off at the time or like in a couple cases I know about, there were electrical shorts in the dashcam recorders(or somewhere under dash) that burnt the whole dash out including dashcam and film. One cruiser burnt so bad it was totaled.

That was the old systems.

I don't know what dashcam system Canton currently has but many are now set so the LEO can't turn cam off and the vid. goes directly to the PD communications equip. No tape in cruiser. Also communications can remotely click on any dashcam under their jurisdiction and watch whats going on during a stop from the station.

There has almost had to have been some cover- ups or at the very least, looking the other way, with Harless in the past. I would bet big money that there has been past convictions in which the PA used Harless's dashcam vids. as part of evidence for the conviction and Harless was acting un-professional.

Bet before all this is over there will be more complaints filed against the dept. for past arrest.

Makes ya wonder just what else is happening in this department the Chiefs not aware of.

I wish the Feds would get involved and help him out.