Plated bullets in revolver?

[edfardos]

Has anyone gotten plated bullets to work in a revolver? .. and by work, I mean, not shed plating material and lead your barrel? I use xtreme plated bullets in all my other pistols (and fmj 223) with great success. My ruger spits copper and leaves rings of plating in the forcing cone. My s&w returns home with lead in the barrel.

These are both 44mag applications. downloaded to 1100fps (tried 2400, CFEPistol, HP38).


curiously,
-edfardos

[sghart3578]

You may be pushing them too fast.

Your Ruger may have a restriction at the forcing cone. Rugers are known for this condition. It comes from over-torquing the barrel in the frame.

I use only cast bullets, sized for my guns. Never cared for plated.

[Radny97]

I've got more than 10,000 xtreme bullets through several of my revolvers, mostly ruger gp100s. I've never seen what you are describing. Mine have always shot without leaving anything other than what you would see with jacketed bullets. Something else is going on here. Perhaps you have a burr on the forcing cone or you barrel-cylinder alignment is poor.

[Nick_C_S]

You may be pushing them too fast.

Yes, you may be pushing them too fast.

I shoot a lot of plated bullets in revolver. Mostly 38/44 Special. And a fair bit of 357 Mag too. But not 44 Magnum. (A lot of 45 ACP too, but that's not a revolver .)

It's important to understand that plated bullets are meant to be a cleaner alternative to lead bullets. They were never meant to be a low cost substitute for jacketed bullets. Of course, as soon as they hit the market, loaders started treating them as such. I suppose the manufacturers should have seen that one coming.

I know the box says "1250 fps Max" or whatever, but I would never drive them that hard. With 38/44 Special, it's not much of an issue. I never go beyond 900-ish f/s - not as a rule, mind you, just that going beyond is outside my loading style/purpose. For 357 Mag, I go to about 1050-ish. If I want to go hotter, I cross over to jacketed.

Even at that, when I shoot a lot of plated bullets, there is an "orange hue" left behind in the barrel. I just clean as usual, and move on. If I still see a little orange after cleaning, I don't sweat it. It's never built up to the point where it's a problem. Been loading/shooting them for years.

I like plated bullets. But they have their rightful role. And being a substitute for jacketed bullets isn't it.

[Nick_C_S]

Perhaps you have a burr on the forcing cone or you barrel-cylinder alignment is poor.

. . . ^ This could be too. ^ (Radny97's post came in while I was composing mine.)

I also failed to see the "shedding lead" part in your OP.

I'd start by turning them way down and see what happens. If they're still showing lead, it's time to have the guns looked at.

My gut still tells me you're just driving them too hard though.

[NoSecondBest]

I'm with the "driving them too hard" idea. Too many shooters are confused about what a plated bullet is. They are a LOT more like a cast bullet than a jacked bullet. If you want to drive them past 900fps, use jacketed bullets. Regardless of what the box says, they simply won't perform well at higher velocities.

[TimSr]

I understand that not everybody has had my trouble free experience at driving cast bullets to full magnum velocities (1300+) but if you have to slow plated bullets down to 900fps, I don't understand the point of them.

I do agree that soft lead bullets with a "spray on film" jacket should not be pushed to full magnum pressures. If you are afraid of plain cast bullets, (all I use) use coated cast 18BRN bullets so you have a harder core than lightly plated soft lead. Plated soft lead should work okay up to 38 +P or 9mm pressures at best.

[g.willikers]

if you have to slow plated bullets down to 900fps, I don't understand the point of them.

According to the reloading company here, (where I used to get my cast lead bullets), the shooting ranges more and more are demanding plated bullets.
The owners, and many shooters, think it's less air polluting than lead bullets. And the reloading companies naturally provide what their customers want.

[NoSecondBest]

I understand that not everybody has had my trouble free experience at driving cast bullets to full magnum velocities (1300+) but if you have to slow plated bullets down to 900fps, I don't understand the point of them.

Tim, I really don't understand the point of them to begin with. I think the purpose of developing them was to confuse people thinking they're jacketed....or basically the same as jacketed. A good cast bullet will do everything a plated bullet will do. I'd say " I must be getting old", then I remember....I am old

[mikld]

How is the OP crimping? A roll crimp may cut through the plating into the soft lead and cause plating shedding and leading. I used a taper crimp when I shot some .38 Specials...

I agree with Nick, plated bullets have their place, but for me, I already have good bullets. I don't have a leading problem with my cast bullets and I don't get everything sticky/messy with lube. Plated are no more accurate than my home cast. If I "need" high velocities, I'll just go with jacketed bullets. I've only used about a thousand plated bullets, mostly in my semi-autos, and they preformed OK, but for me, I have very good bullets on hand...

If I feel like it I also powder coat bullets, but not very often any more, for the same reasons above, my cast bullets are pretty good...

[BigJimP]

Plated bullets will work, sometimes, if you don't push them too fast - and if you're really careful as you crimp them ( get them just tight enough without cracking the plating...)...

However, since plated bullets don't have a cannelure ...you may get some bullet setback, as the gun fires, kind of like a bullet puller...so in my view, its best to have a true jacketed bullet with a cannelure on it so you can crimp them properly. ( one of my buddies was getting a lot of setback on his revolver rounds in .357 mag and especially in .44 mag ...because he was trying to use plated bullets and save a few bucks...)...until it scared him.

I quit using plated bullets in all of my revolvers.../ crimp issues, etc ...in .38 spl, .357 mag and .44 mag.../ have gone to Montana Gold jacketed bullets exclusively now on all my revoler reloads. Great results.

[spacecoast]

The crimping comment was valid, a nice hard crimp normally applied to .44mag will be too much for a plated bullet and likely cuts the copper down to the lead.

[Pond, James Pond]

Has anyone gotten plated bullets to work in a revolver?

Yes.

I've loaded plated bullets to about 1200fps, but these are sold as high speed bullets as they are also coated with a polymer to aid travelling down the bore. Allegedly.

Either way, they work fine for me and the bore is plenty clean.

[Nick_C_S]

They (plated bullets) are a LOT more like a cast bullet than a jacked bullet.

Good post all-around NoSecondBest.

if you have to slow plated bullets down to 900fps, I don't understand the point of them.

Because of that g.willikers said:

the shooting ranges more and more are demanding plated bullets. The owners, and many shooters, think it's less air polluting than lead bullets.

And what I already said:

plated bullets are meant to be a cleaner alternative to lead bullets. They were never meant to be a low cost substitute for jacketed bullets.

[TailGator]

plated bullets don't have a cannelure

And even that isn't universally true. X-Treme, and perhaps others, makes some plated bullets with cannelures. I load some .38 special for indoor use with them, and they handle quite nicely.

With the chrono results reported by the OP, I am a bit more suspicious of crimping problems or gun problems than I am of the plating itself, but others here have a lot more loading experience than me, and I will watch and see how this plays out after the OP monkeys with some of the ideas.

[SHR970]

Having used plated bullets over 20 years..I seriously don't think they are being overdriven @ 1100 fps if that result is out of two different guns. Copper in the forcing cone and spitting out of the Ruger and Lead in the barrel of the S&W tells me one of two things is going on. Either they are being over crimped to the point of cutting through the plating or the bullets are a bit oversized. I'm betting on crimp. I use a standard Hornady roll crimp die but have it set to just crimp.

I have fired over 20k out of 3 different 357's (SP101, GP 100, Blackhawk) at W.O.T. over W296 and AA#9 without problems. My AA#9 load is my Go To load for my Blackhawk.

I have also run several thousand out of my SRH 44 and most were loaded over W296 or AA#9. Again no issues.

Take a bullet puller to a loaded round and tell us if you see a distinct ring around the bullet (Hint...if you do you are over crimping).

[Nick_C_S]

X-Treme, and perhaps others, makes some plated bullets with cannelures.

Correct. I have a boatload of these: http://www.xtremebullets.com/38-158-...8swc-b0500.htm. And there's a bunch of others that have cannelures as well.

I taper crimp them, btw. I never roll crimp a plated bullet - cannelure or not.

[black mamba]

I've loaded several thousand plated bullets in both 44 mag and 45 colt, with velocities from 800 fps up to about 1,000 fps with no problems at all. Roll crimps have been universally used, both with and without cannelures. If no cannelure, I seat the bullets so that the roll crimp is over the start of the ogive. Never had any shaved plating or leading of any kind. Regardless of the powder used, I have found the accuracy sweet spot in four different revolvers in two different calibers to be around 950 fps.

[edfardos]

OP here,

that's great info everyone thanks. so it sounds like it's possible, but not always at rated speeds (1200 for berry's 1500 for xtreme).

Ruger super redhawk was 1200-1400fps.
S&W Model 69 was 1100fps.

I did a mild crimp for the ruger (was using H110). I did absolutely no crimp for the S&W. It's possible i crimped too much on the ruger - i gave up on it a couple of years ago, still had some xtreme bullets lying around and thought maybe I could get them to work in the new S&W. While i didn't get plating in the forcing cone, i did get lead in the bore.

keep in mind, it's not a problem with every shot -- the plating fails in one and ten. It's enough to draw blood from my face with copper fragments with the ruger. Once plating fails, the exposed/soft/swaged lead really sticks to the bore.

As for Hard Cast, that's what I normally use:

S&W cyls are .429, so I use xtreme hard cast .429 at 18bhn.
Ruger cyls are .431, so I use Oregon Trail Laser Cast .431 at 26bhn.

The ruger does not lead at all - in fact, it's shockingly clean.
The S&W gets initial leading but it doesn't build up, comes out easy with choreboy. I use Liquid Allox on the S&W which helps.

Anyhow, that's a bunch of facts. I don't know what to make of it other than I'll stick with what seems to work (hard cast). It'd be nice to know why I can't use plated bullets in revolvers and others can. The S&W was just replaced at the mother ship and it was exquisitely built this time. Impeccable.

OP,

-edfardos

[SHR970]

One other possibility.. kind of an outlier...you might have got a batch that the plating didn't adhere to the core properly.

[edfardos]

That occurred to me as well, mentioned it to extreme, and they suddenly shipped me another box of 500! Same result, but still, what a great company!

Edfardos

[jetinteriorguy]

I used to use a lot of the Extreme bullets with great success, in both my .357 and .41 mag. I load them to moderate jacketed levels with no problems. I don't have a chrono so can't attest to actual velocity but judging by recoil they are fairly stout, plus I shoot them from both my levers at even higher velocities and stil have no issues. I do crimp them with the Lee collet crimper set to a medium crimp so they are good in the levers tubes. But I'm slowly switching to the HiTec coated bullets because I can drive them to magnum velocities (I assume) based on max loads for jacketed bullets from manufacturers web sites. I also have had no issues with the HiTec bullets from Acme.

[CommandoX]

Very interesting read for me.

Like a couple others I've had good success with the Xtreme 158 Semi Wad Cutter bullets. I've actually shot about 3000 of them so far and about 2700 of that has been through my Ruger GP100 6". I've tried lots of powders but settled on 6.5 grains of W231 for "Target Magnums" and 14.0 grains of 2400 for "True Magnum-Sound" bullets. They are both coming out around 1150 and I've had NO problems with leading or plating separation. I'm crimping "lightly" with the Lee FCD. If I want "true" magnums I use other bullets and powder.

I found the Extremes to be close to useless in my .44 SRH though. Now I use Bayou 240 Elmer Keiths at .432 diameter. I do get a little forcing cone build up but it takes 100 rounds to get there. Still comes off easy peasy with the Lewis Lead Remover.

I'm surprised to hear some of the comments about plated speeds and use. I've always loaded them as if they were lead but haven't had issues. Maybe I've been lucky....?

[mmb713]

If you are shooting your 44s at moderate velocity and getting leading you are almost certainly over crimping them and breaking the plating. I also crimp my X-treme bullets in 357 and 45 Colt with a moderate roll crimp using the FCD and get excellent accuracy with no leading. If you are crimping them the same as you would a jacketed bullet you are using too much crimp for the bullet.

H110 is a very poor match with plated bullets. It requires a firm crimp for proper ignition which will certainly break the plating. Save it for jacketed loads. I use Universal mostly for my plated revolver loads. Any powder with a similar burning rate should work great in your 44s.

Plated bullets are strictly target and plinking bullets pushed to moderate velocity. If you want to go full throttle you need to switch to jacketed of hard cast.

[Nick_C_S]

If you plan on loading a lot of plated revolver bullets, I recommend getting a taper crimp die.

I have TCD's for both 38/357, and 44 Mag/Spl. Actually, I have three each for both diameters. I have one that I use for the seat die that is pre-set to take out about half the flair (I use a spacer to go between Spl & Mag); and then I have a die each for (Correction:) crimping - one pre-set for mag, and one for Spl. I'm lazy - I don't like messing with adjusting dies. And then, if I do need to roll crimp, then the Lee FCD gets the call - after they first go through the taper crimp. I have a bit of a different process. . . So even my roll crimped rounds are first taper crimped.

I even have a couple dedicated seat dies that are pre-set for my most common "pet" loads. Screw 'em in and start loading.