Tragic but an innocent pizza delivery guy survived

[TXAZ]

When we lived in AZ, it seemed that about once a month a CCW holder stopped an assault or robbery.
(clarify edit: move to present day FL)
It may be the current environment, but it seems similar events make instant national news. I believe Pizza Hut forbids drivers from being armed, but this Dominos driver was. I hope there are no repercussions against the driver by Dominos.
Conversely, do you think this 32 year old young man would have brought a knife to a gun fight if he knew the driver was likely armed?

http://www.myfoxorlando.com/story/23...s-armed-robber

[JohnKSa]

Nearly any large company will have a policy against employees (other than security guards) being armed to limit liability. I've found a few non-official sources that claim Dominos has just such a policy.

It's almost certain that he will be fired.

[TXAZ]

I hope not JohnKSa. A 50+ year old pizza driver is likely just trying to make ends meet. I guess we will see over the next few days.

[spacecoast]

Nearly any large company will have a policy against employees (other than security guards) being armed to limit liability. I've found a few non-official sources that claim Dominos has just such a policy.

I wonder how that compares to their liability if their driver is stabbed and bleeds out in the parking lot?

This one hits close to home for me, the hotel is just off I-95 and the immediate area has seen plenty of trouble in the past. Last year a couple robbing a different hotel at the same exit ended up in a chase and shot a long-serving female sheriff's deputy to death. Definitely not a place in which to be out and about late at night (unless, of course, your job depends on it).

If these "we deliver" food places started mandating that ALL drivers have their CC permits and are encouraged to carry, I think we would see fewer of these incidents. Word would spread quickly in the criminal community.

[MLeake]

We've had related discussions before (typically about pharmacies). There is minimal, if any, liability to the employer based on the criminal actions of third parties. Add to that the fact that some employers take out insurance policies on their employees - that pay the employers - and there is NO incentive for corporate to authorize carry.

A couple or so decades back, I drove pizzas (senior year of high school). One of my buddies at the same company received what turned out to be a planned ambush order. He arrived at an apparently deserted house, got out of his car to verify the address, and was approached by a knife-wielding robber. At the time, our company used canvas shopping bags to transport soft drinks, and my buddy had a six-pack of Coke in one of those bags.

He used the weighted bag to knock the robber silly, then jumped into his car and sped off.

Corporate reaction? Canvas bags were removed, and soft drinks were put into plastic sleeves that would not stand up to such use...

[Glenn E. Meyer]

We discussed employer or local liability for not letting you carry. IIRC, the argument is who is the bad actor. It is the criminal. The employer or locale is not responsible unless there is a known or directed threat - not just the possibility of a robbery. Our law types might comment.

[thallub]

The "justice system" failed to keep a violent criminal behind bars. This from the link says it all.

Kelly was struck and pronounced dead at the scene. Deputies say this wasn't the first offense for Fredrick Kelly Jr. It turns out he has a lengthy violent criminal history that includes Armed Robbery, Aggravated Battery and False Imprisonment. Brevard County Sheriff deputies also said that the suspect in this investigation, Kelly, was released from prison in 2009, after serving a reduced sentence for similar violent crimes.

Yeah, Domino's will probablly fire the delivery man. They have done that before.

[P5 Guy]

At least he is alive to get fired.
Remember back about 25 years ago when Corporations like that were sued to stop redlining certain neighborhoods?

[Skans]

If I were a Pizza Delivery guy, I'd carry a gun and not worry about "being fired". Let's see, I have to hustle around in my own car delivering pizzas to drunk idiots, sketchy people and some who are flat out looking to rob you of your money and non-company provided vehicle. Not only would I carry a gun, but it would be a full-sized large capacity .40 and a BUG.

If I got fired, I'd apply for the same job 3 doors down. Too little pay for such a high risk job. Some company rules are only for dead employees.

[ripnbst]

You know what else these companies could do? Tell the public their people are allowed to carry even if they really aren't. Fear of the gun would likely keep the away.

Knowing that many large companies have policies against it to limit liability is why this happens.

[Double Naught Spy]

You know what else these companies could do? Tell the public their people are allowed to carry even if they really aren't. Fear of the gun would likely keep the away.

No, it would not. It would be hypocrisy at the most basic level. The drivers would feel like they are being hung out to dry. Plus, it would not be a secret for very long that the supposedly armed drivers aren't armed. On top of that, the notion of being armed does not stop robberies. Fear of the gun only goes so far when people 1) have not heard about the drivers purportedly being armed, 2) when judgment is clouded by drugs or alcohol, 3) judgment is overruled by intense need (jonesing for drugs, desperate for money to survive), or 4) when the hype is not believed.

Telling the public that your drivers are armed when they are not would be a VERY BAD IDEA.

[Ralgha]

I'm afraid I'm not seeing the part of this story that's tragic. A career violent criminal has been removed from society, I wouldn't call that tragic.

[TXAZ]

Thallus noted

Yeah, Domino's will probablly fire the delivery man. They have done that before.

Maybe, but I just gave them my $0.02 worth on their email feedback on their website.


Maybe worthwhile, maybe not but I tried.

[ClydeFrog]

I agree with most of the posted remarks, but...
Id add that some employees who KNOWINGLY violate company SOPs or cut corners to save time/hassles bring a termination on themselves.

A few years ago, I read of a major pizza chain that fired 02 store managers for how they did bank deposits/$$$ turn-ins.
They'd cut corners & have only one person do it(rather than pairs) & would go to banks/offices with lax attitudes(not securing doors, escorts for employees at closing, no CCTVs/lights, etc).
This led to a armed robbery & major changes.
Savvy criminals & violent thugs may track or plan a business down to the last detail or topic.
As I've stated in the past, there are no "professional robbers". When a armed robber aims a loaded weapon at you, they are fully prepared to kill you! There are no "stick up kids". George Clooney or Brad Pitt are not going to smooth talk you or be glib.
You need to fully ready to defend yourself if you have a clear shot & can take out the felon(s).
Clyde

[DnPRK]

An insurance company is not obligated to pay for the death of an employee shot during a robbery.

But the same insurance company will be forced to pay millions to the family of a robber shot by an employee.

[Jim Watson]

Times change.
My Dad was a city bus driver, 1940-1976.
Sometime in the 1950s, holdups of bus and taxi drivers were increasing.
The sheriff pointed out that this was a hazardous occupation because many of the drivers were armed. And furthermore, if stick ups did not cease, he would deputize and arm ALL the drivers. Holdups did not completely go away, but they dropped off a lot.

By the time he retired, the attitude and approach had changed. Exact fare only into a locked and bolted down fare box, no change on hand.

[Tom Servo]

A career violent criminal has been removed from society, I wouldn't call that tragic.

A life taken without the benefit of due process? Yes, I'd consider that tragic. Necessary at the time and under the circumstances, but it's still nothing to celebrate.

[RodTheWrench]

No, Tom, nothing to celebrate but the guy was locked up how many times and was back doing the same thing again? It's too bad it had to end this way, but he chose to live his life in violence and he died in justifiable violence. No tears shed here.

[Double Naught Spy]

A life taken without the benefit of due process?

I would not call it tragic either. Not calling it tragic isn't the same as celebrating. The career criminal forced the situation, not the pizza guy. The pizza guy's life was being threatened without due process first.

What is tragic is whatever grief and disharmony the pizza guy is going through.

[Skans]

I would not call it tragic either. Not calling it tragic isn't the same as celebrating. The career criminal forced the situation, not the pizza guy. The pizza guy's life was being threatened without due process first.

What is tragic is whatever grief and disharmony the pizza guy is going through.

Ditto - I couldn't have expressed it better.

[MLeake]

Due process is something that applies to how the state acts, with its luxury of time and deliberation. There can't be due process, per se, in a fight for survival. That is something for the aftermath.

[ClydeFrog]

In my metro area last week, a armed citizen(pizza guy) smoke-checked a violent robber.
The crook had a large knife & moved to rob the delivery driver at a low-end hotel.
The deceased subject had a long, long history of violent crime.
The police investigation is still under way but a PD media affairs rep said that any criminal charges were unlikely.

Clyde

[MLeake]

ClydeFrog, the OP incident was covered by myFOXorlando.com - are you sure this was not the same incident? (West Melbourne)

[TXAZ]

As noted in a post above, I used the following link to provide polite and proactive support of this pizza delivery driver back to Dominos management.

https://info.dominos.com/dominos_pizza/contact.nsf/

If you are so inclined please consider.

Glenn,
Thanks for the ok to post the link.

[spacecoast]

More details in the case -

http://www.floridatoday.com/article/...police-officer

Be sure to read both pages, he may not lose his job because it was an independent Domino's and not a company owned store.

Many employers have long banned guns from the workplace as part of a violence-prevention strategy, but those policies routinely are being tested as states pass laws making it easier for residents to carry concealed guns...

Food-delivery employees are sometimes viewed as targets by criminals because the latter know they’re carrying money and food. And it’s often later in the evening.

Let's hope for the sake of the people do this kind of work that concealed carry becomes an accepted option.

Arthur Hayhoe of the Florida Coalition to Stop Gun Violence, said his position is that “guns and business don’t mix.” Hayhoe is an outspoken critic of the National Rifle Association.

Note the standard absurd comment from the representative of the Antis.