Pietta 1851 Wedge Removal - Page 2

ClemBert · July 29, 2009, 03:23 PM

I was satisfied with this particular 1851's appearance. The cylinder did not free spin easily but it did turn easily enough when cocking the hammer. There was no binding against the barrel. However, this puppy is going back to Cabelas. I will ask them to exchange it. I would have liked to pump a few magnum loads through it to loosen it up a bit. That may have done the trick to loosen the wedge. But if I shoot it then I own it so I don't feel like risking it. With Cabelas generous return/exchange policy I think the safe play is to switch it out.

robhof · July 29, 2009, 03:31 PM

Have you tried presoaking with penetrating oil? If you bought it new, you might want to try the dealer. If not, careful heating of the frame with a butane torch around the wedge and touching an ice cube to the wedge, just before tapping it. The heat expansion and cold shrinkage should give a few thousandth of space. An uncle of mine, who used to do his own smithing, used this tenique to remove barrels on revolvers to change out. This was his last resort method when a long 2x4 wouldn't break the barrel free. He set it up in a padded vice and carefully heated the frame around the barrel and dribbled some water on the barrel, then turned the frame with the board, always worked for him.

ClemBert · July 29, 2009, 03:37 PM

Naw, no need to go through that. This is a new revolver from Cabelas and I'll just do an exchange. If this was bought "as is" or from the bargain bin then I'd just go shoot the poop outta it to loosen it up. Since it is new there is no need for the heroic approach.

arcticap · July 29, 2009, 04:02 PM

I really thought that the vice would work.
You did make a nice set up to try that method out with too.
If you could secure the gun in the vice and use 2 boards with holes to provide access to the wedge, I really think that a dead blow hammer and a punch would do the trick.
A hard wood punch might even work.
It's not about the strength of the punch, but the transfer of energy to the wedge.
And they also make plastic dead blow hammers instead of the traditional brass or bronze dead blow, and leather could be used to protect the wedge along with using a steel punch if necessary.
I would probably borrow a friend's dead blow hammer because I know someone who has one that's heavyweight bronze.
Cabela's would take it back if the effort failed anyway. But of course no one would blame you if didn't want to try that route. Maybe being so difficult to remove is just a "bad sign"!

olmontanaboy · July 29, 2009, 07:50 PM

Quote:

So...who bet on the Gorilla and who bet on ClemBert?

Sorry man, If I had not gone through this very thing myself I woulda bet on you and the vise. I would not have beleived I could not remove the wedge from my army with the force I applied with that maul. I'm thinking they must use the wedege to "FORCE" misalinged parts in some revolvers. My thinking is like yours "this aint right" cant be good for the pistol all that hammering. Get a new one

ClemBert · July 29, 2009, 08:22 PM

Quote:

I really think that a dead blow hammer and a punch would do the trick.

I did use a dead blow hammer and a punch. It bent the punch. The punch I made was pretty beefy. Beside, that 1/4" thick brass wedge killer bent under extreme force. That vice I have is much larger than what your average homeowner owns. I was using two hands to crank on it and I'm a 6'3" gorilla myself.

Quote:

Maybe being so difficult to remove is just a "bad sign"!

Exactly...its bad mojo to have a problem like this before the first shot.

Quote:

I'm thinking they must use the wedege to "FORCE" misalinged parts in some revolvers. My thinking is like yours "this aint right" cant be good for the pistol all that hammering. Get a new one.

I gave it the ol' college try three times and struck out. I would have liked to have loosened her up with some big loads but in the end it didn't make sense to end up owning it just for that experiment. This thing will probably end up in the bargain bin for $150 bucks. Hell, if Cabelas told me to keep it for $150 I would. But why mess with it if I can get one without the problems. Its already been dropped of at UPS. Hope the next one is a keeper!

Hopefully the new owner is a member here. Can't wait to read about the wedge from hell from some other sucker...ahem, I mean soot lord.

arcticap · July 29, 2009, 09:04 PM

Maybe we should all email Pietta and tell them to start putting grease on their wedges and in the arbor/barrel slots.
How much would that cost them, about a 1/2 cent?

ClemBert · July 29, 2009, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Maybe we should all email Pietta and tell them to start putting grease on their wedges and in the arbor slots.
How much would that cost them, about a 1/2 cent?

How 'bout we suggest they have the gorilla lay off the spinach?

Smokin_Gun · July 30, 2009, 12:28 AM

Did you try knockin' down or sqeezin' the tip of the wedge spring downward to clear the barrel slot...it may have too steep a ramp on it to clear the barrel slot. Jus' a thought...

ClemBert · July 30, 2009, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Did you try knockin' down or sqeezin' the tip of the wedge spring downward to clear the barrel slot...it may have too steep a ramp on it to clear the barrel slot. Jus' a thought...

Yup, I sure did. I would say I did everything within reason to get that sucker out. My goal was to get the wedge out without marring the wedge or the barrel. I did pretty much remove the bluing on the wedge and replace it with a layer of brass though. I'm sure I could get it out (with a steel punch and a 5 lb sledge) but I really didn't want to end up with a brand new dinged up revolver.

robhof · July 30, 2009, 01:19 PM

With all you've done, I'd definitely opt for the exchange and have them test the wedge on the new one before sending, to be sure you don't have to start from square one again.

Deadguy · July 30, 2009, 06:24 PM

Mr. Pietta himself hangs out on the cascity.com forums (goes by the name Alchemista). Perhaps if a few of use went there and voiced our "experiences" with the gorilla that overtightens screws, nipples, and barrel wedges, Mr. Pietta might do something about it.

sundance44s · July 31, 2009, 08:41 AM

Why not do it the easy way .. spend 3.99 order one of these , I`ve been useing one for years ...and it still works ...http://www.trackofthewolf.com/(S(xwr...Num=TOOL-KEY-B
getting the wedge out of a Colt can be as hard as you want it to be .

enyaw · July 31, 2009, 09:14 AM

Clembert, I'm a cap&baller gunsmith. Fix guns for people from all over. Fixed the worst of the worst. Never had wedges stuck like a Pietta unless someone did some really weird thing to get it stuck.
Piettas are very difficult to get the wedges out of when new. I had the same problem with new guns sent to me to accurize and fix the point of aim to the point of impact.
I get all the wedges out. I'm not an engineer even though I studied Civil engineering in college most of three years. Interesting but off track for the post right? Sorry Bud.
Anyway from years of "fixing everything imaginable" I've picked up certain mechanical attributes or added to my mechanical aptitude.

Sometimes the Piettas have the rear of the arbor slot "even" with the rear barrel slots. That lets the wedge get stuck in the arbor slot when it contacts fore and aft in the arbor. (once the wedge is out you have to file the rear arbor slot away some so the wedge can contact only the barrel slots at the rear of the wedge. The wedge can't function when the rear of the arbor slot contacts the wedge)
It does come loose though. Even when the wedge is installed mechanically correct but too tight. I think Pietta may kinda form fit the wedges for the perfect fit. ie Seat the wedge in the corresponding parts by force. Also the hook on the wedge spring (like Smoking Gun mentioned) that had ,pretty much, a 90 degree bend to its end grabs the barrel and gets caught by the spring tip hooking on the barrel. Know what I mean? When the wedge finally comes out that edge on the barrels slot where the wedge hook "was" will be re-shaped with a relief that's angled so the wedge spring can let the wedge out. The spring relieves the barrel there the first time the wedge comes out. That relief will be silver since the bluing is off there now. Can't see it unless you take the wedge out and look under that edge close. Anyway before wacking the wedge you should depress the tip of the wedge spring to " eyeball" whether or not there will be space for the spring to depress enough to enter the barrel slot. There are times,believe it or not that the wedge spring can't depress enough to clear the top of that barrel slot to get out. Don't ask me how they force it in that way.
Anyway....it takes a substantial transfer of energy to knock the wedge loose. With the gun on it's side on a board with more wood to level the barrel the chance of arbor damage(loosen the arbor) is minimized substantially.
Put the gun on wood with some wood under the barrel to make the gun level on it's side. Something softer than wood under the grip. Padded wood would work like to fold a shop rag to pad the wood under the grip. Use something substantial as a punch. Why a punch? If you wack the tip of the spring hard enough it may break the wedge spring. Gotta not hit the spring if it's possible so hitting the wedge with a hammer is bad(hitting the part of the wedge that sticks out of the barrel slot).
If the wedge is flush with the barrel then it doesn't matter whether you hit the spring or not. Only when the spring hooks the outside of the barrel slot does it matter.Something substancial? Steel punch made from a screw driver shank with the wood or plastic handle removed. Use a steel hammer with some weight to hit the punch. It is a good idea to take a larger size screwdriver and grind the tip off some to widen the tip just almost as thick as the wedge under the spring. It doesn't matter if the screw driver is much thicker than the slot. Only the tip of the widened screw driver enters at the first movement of the wedge. You make sure some of the tip of the screw driver punch is thin enough to enter the wedge slot a little,like a quater inch or a little less at the first movement of the wedge. Make sure you try to controp the screw driver punch so you don't drive it too far in the wedge slot and deform the edges of the slot. Side note.....remove the wood or plastic from the screw driver shank so you are hitting steel to steel.
Not too long of a screw driver though since the length of the screw driver shank absorbs energy and can flex under the blows of the hammer. Make the screw driver punch long enough to get your whole hand wrapped around it for a steady support. Wearing a leather glove absorbs some of the sting of holding the steel as it's hit with steel to move steel. The vibration and the energy wasted from the shank flexing goes into your hand so don't leave the shank too much longer than it needs to be to wrap your hand around it. You wrap you hand around the shank of the punch so the punch is supported and gets the energy transfered. The steel punch transfers energy better than brass. Brass for the initial hits to the wedge softens the transfer of energy some and all the energy has to transfer. Steel to steel to the steel wedge for the fist blows usually. It doesn't hurt a thing to try brass first though. The wedge may move with a brass punch.
Use a brass punch with the end filed flat so it can enter the wedge slot (and not hit the spring tip)just a little . Use a brass punch that's at least 3/8ths inch diameter. Even a 1/2 inch diameter punch is good since the tip is filed flat for maybe a 1/4th inch. Don't make the flat part too long for the first blows to the wedge.
If the brass fails and the steel is needed then you watch the wedge and the screw driver shank punch. When the wedge moves a little and the tapered screw driver is just about getting too thick for the slot then go to a punch or a thinner piece of steel(that fits into the slot and is almost as thick as the wedge and almost as wide since the bigger the punch the more energy transferred). Take the sharp edges off the edges of that piece of steel being used for a punch now (and file a notch so it doesn't hit the spring tip)that enters the wedge slot. Round off the edges just a tad so they won't catch the edge of the arbor slot or the edge of the barrel slot as the piece of steel enters and goes thru the wedge slot.
In the beginning lay the big screw driver punch "square" on the edge of the wedge. You probably should file a notch so it doesn't hit the spring tip but you can have the end of the driver tip small enough to go under the spring tip.
Make sure it's(screw driver shank punch) positioned so it isn't on the barrel anywhere. With the heavy hammer wack the punch and transfer the energy to the wedge. The punch needs to be wide in diameter (3/8ths) and the hammer a ball peen with some weight. A carpenters hammer will work too.
Once the wedge moves a little you can try brass or nylon drift punches. It may still need the steel piece you made that can enter the wedge slot though. May need that to go all the way thru to the other side.
Make sure that piece of steel is not as wide as the wedge nor as thick or you may get the wedge out and find the slab steel punch is now stuck in there.

Laying the punches square on the wedge tip minimizes any deformation of the wedge tip. If there is a little deformation don't fret. Wedges are made for hitting them. They get dinged up some. A new wedge costs a good bit anymore(too much in my book) but it's not too costly to get a new one if you need a pristine gun.
Anyway "Clembert" your punch used was too small to transfer enough energy. You need stiff punches for the first blows for the first small movement of the wedge.
There are times that the wedge can shoot out with some force when it breaks loose and if there's room for it to do so it will fly a ways.
When the gun is layed out like I suggested once the wedge moves a little and you may move the wedge easier then take out the wood that was under the wedge with a little space between. It was just there to make sure the wedge didn't move far enough for the screwdriver punch to enter the slot and ,since the screw driver is thicker than the wedge slot, deform the barrels slot some. Once the wedge moves enough make sure there's room for it too get all the way out.
You know, pick it up and rest it on your legs sitting in the chair once the wedge gets easier to move. Once the wedge moves some it gets easier to wack all the way out.
Keep the large screw driver punch and the piece of steel that can go thru the wedge slot to get the wedge all the way out with your shooting stuff you take with you to go shoot. You may want to take the barrel off your gun for some reason while at the range. Once the wedge has been in and out of the slot enough it pops right out with a lesser blow than the first time.
I went thru the trouble to type this as a helper for anyone removing a new Pietta wedge that's stuck. Most of the new Piettas come with stuck wedges so chances are that if you return the gun because of a stuck wedge the exchange gun will have a stuck wedge also.
Work carefully when removing a stuck wedge. You don't want to marr or scratch your barrel and if you do it properly you won't.

sundance44s · July 31, 2009, 09:34 AM

I`ll have to differ on enyaw`s advice on useing a steel punch ......if you hit it hard enough to move the wedge the steel punch will slip off the wedge and put a nasty looking scratch on the barrel ...I have never had one come out easy .......it will take a good wack with a fairly heavy hammer (I use a 21 oz frameing hammer ) and the brass punch shown in my last post ....................the brass punch will not leave any uglys on the barrel when it slips yet it is heavy enough to do the job with a good hammer .
Save the steel punch for something besides gun smithing .

Hawg · July 31, 2009, 10:16 AM

I wouldn't want to use steel either. I might would if I had to but I wouldn't want to. My 60 Colt (Pietta) had a wedge that was a little hard to remove but nothing a couple of sharp raps with a plastic screwdriver handle didn't cure.

breed · July 31, 2009, 04:31 PM

i would like to have the BT and TG off that gun.

breed · July 31, 2009, 04:32 PM

it looks plated to me.

Smokin' gun · July 31, 2009, 07:36 PM

Here is how to handle wedge removal on a pristine gun you just bought. Lay the gun on it's left side on blocks of wood and take a screw driver that's big enough but not too big for the wedge channel and knock it down with any kind of hammer. grease it. After shootin it rounds per day or a week or so - the wedge spring will finally break and you can just about pop it in or out w/ your palm. The plastic handle of your screw driver is a good tool for popping it in or out and tigtining barrel to cylinder. While all this is going on; order a spare wedge..so when you want to display or sell it--- your gun will still look pristine new again as long as you didn't bugger up the barrel. --

sundance44s · August 1, 2009, 01:04 AM

I just noticed this purdy pistola is on sale at Cabelas for 239.00 ....was 299.00 I may have to order one for myself ...damn the wedge .

EmptyHull · August 1, 2009, 01:05 AM

Clem, let us know how the new one does. I was bettin on you though!

Tim

enyaw · August 1, 2009, 02:04 AM

Sundance...the brass punch you posted a pic of....blade .083 in thick?
The stuck Pietta wedges I've encountered would ruin that punch first time out of the gate.

You'll run across one of the "tough ones" to get out someday.....the steel punches you save for other things besides gunsmithing.....remember where you put them.

Anyone that isn't well versed in tool use....it would be best to take the gun back and exchange it before you might marr it if the wedge is stuck hard enough that a nylon punch can't get it out.
Anywhooo....I like that brass punch posted in Sundances link. I'll get one. The punch Smoking Gun made for me years ago from space age nylon is gettin a little ragged.
Sundance....you have a good point about steel can slip and marr the barrel. I wouldn't recommend a novice with the tools to use one. It is hard on the nerves if a barrel of a new gun gets scratched up.

Especially if you get mad and beat the dang thing into a flat piece of scrap steel.

That is how those really stuck wedges can make a guy feel. Mad Dog crazy mean and angry. That's not nice.
Better to get a gunsmith to get the wedge out or send the gun back where it came from.
If I could think of anything else to say I could put some more of those funny little faces in my post.

Heck, may as well have some fun here.
Now take heed folks....steel punches can slip and can scratch the barrel. A coupla layers like three or four will help protect the area around the wedge some. Not completely though. Later Pards.

sundance44s · August 1, 2009, 07:04 AM

Hey ya Wayner ...I didn`t know that was you ...no doubt if done with much care a steel punch could be used ...but for me not worth a slip on a purdy Italian made pistol ....evpecially this one with the engraveing ....
I`m not sure how thick the brass punch is I posted but I have wacked the hell out of it and only mushroomed the flat tip a little ..it has never bent .
You may already have one of these lyman hammers , nylon on one side brass on the other and the heads are replaceable ...these work well too if the wedge isn`t stuck too bad .http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=192310
The brass drift punch I posted earlyer works better with a heavy hammer for wedges that are factory new stuck .

enyaw · August 1, 2009, 10:27 AM

Sundance, when you convert yer Sharps to the Gremmer model that looks like a Hawken/Sharps with two wedge keys holding the new forearm with the nosecap that punch will come in handy.

How'd you know this was me,Wayner?

The Track of the Wolf link had the size of that punch. It must be the harder type brass. The yellow versas the white brass?
Yer right about that purty gun and the steel punch slippin on that engraved barrel. That would be crying time to put a big scratch on it. I have one just like it. Nice looking and nice shooter too. Doesn't shoot real high(niether of my Pietta Navy Colts do) and shoots straight. I'd hate to hit the engraving with a steel punch.
That tells the story. Drive the stuck wedges out carefully or run the risk of damage. Pietta should fit those wedges and then loosen them back up so people don't damage their new guns.
I don't understand the reasoning behind Piettas wedges being stuck. They must kinda form fit to seat them in conjunction to the bottomed arbors(which I love on those Peittas...the bottomed arbors)but why leave them stuck? Those stuck wedges are difficult for almost everyone to get out and.....I've never heard too many say they are not difficult.
Even if a person had one of those presses for pressing bearings and all it would be a chore to set up a jig or whatever to press out the stuck wedges.
I've just had to remove shrink fit collars and pressed fit bearings from my antique tractors rear axles. I drilled and chiseled the shrink fit collars and took a burning torch to the pressed fit bearings.

Man, they were almost as hard to get off as a stuck Pietta wedges.

Your recomendation about a heavier hammer is the main stay of getting off a really stuck Pietta wedge. I'll tellya those wedges should be remedied at the factory before they are put in the boxes to ship to the US. Would someone please tell Alchimista to get his shop foreman to get that done???

Those Piettas are too nice to risk damage right off the bat because of a stuck wedge.
Anywhoooo....yous the man Sundance....with good advise.

sundance44s · August 1, 2009, 04:49 PM

Wayner , Shadow , lucky guess on my part I think I can pick your and Smokinguns posting out ......seen alot of them .
That brass drift is made out of a harder probally American made brass , ( may have a little more bronze ) or something in it .....but it won`t bend nor will it scratch the Italian made steel ...so far anyway . I have mushroomed the tip some what on mine , I need to dress it up before I use it again ...but it has seen alot of service .
I use the plastic head on my little lyman hammer once I get one broke free , and for the Hawken type barrel wedges ...........but no doubt a new Colt made by Pietta has a wedge installed by a guy with issues ...I think he must be the same guy tightening the screws on the Pietta Remingtons too .
For no other reason I always recomend some one start their black powder pistol experience with a new Remington , instead of the 1851 Navy .
See ya back at the camp fire at Voy Forum ..... (I`ll have to push Dick Dork out of my seat when I get back ) ...

July 29, 2009, 03:31 PM	#27
robhof Senior Member Join Date: September 16, 2007 Posts: 712	robhof Have you tried presoaking with penetrating oil? If you bought it new, you might want to try the dealer. If not, careful heating of the frame with a butane torch around the wedge and touching an ice cube to the wedge, just before tapping it. The heat expansion and cold shrinkage should give a few thousandth of space. An uncle of mine, who used to do his own smithing, used this tenique to remove barrels on revolvers to change out. This was his last resort method when a long 2x4 wouldn't break the barrel free. He set it up in a padded vice and carefully heated the frame around the barrel and dribbled some water on the barrel, then turned the frame with the board, always worked for him.

July 29, 2009, 04:02 PM	#29
arcticap Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2005 Location: Central Connecticut Posts: 3,166	I really thought that the vice would work. You did make a nice set up to try that method out with too. If you could secure the gun in the vice and use 2 boards with holes to provide access to the wedge, I really think that a dead blow hammer and a punch would do the trick. A hard wood punch might even work. It's not about the strength of the punch, but the transfer of energy to the wedge. And they also make plastic dead blow hammers instead of the traditional brass or bronze dead blow, and leather could be used to protect the wedge along with using a steel punch if necessary. I would probably borrow a friend's dead blow hammer because I know someone who has one that's heavyweight bronze. Cabela's would take it back if the effort failed anyway. But of course no one would blame you if didn't want to try that route. Maybe being so difficult to remove is just a "bad sign"! Last edited by arcticap; July 29, 2009 at 05:19 PM.

July 30, 2009, 12:28 AM	#34
Smokin_Gun Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2005 Location: Mojave Desert, CA Posts: 1,195	Did you try knockin' down or sqeezin' the tip of the wedge spring downward to clear the barrel slot...it may have too steep a ramp on it to clear the barrel slot. Jus' a thought... __________________ "I Smoke Black Powder" "Favor an 1858 Remington" SGT. Smokin' Gun, Mosby's Rangers 43rd Virginia Cavalry C.S.A. SASS# 19634, ... Admin:http://blackpowdersmoke.com/oldcoots/index.php

July 30, 2009, 01:19 PM	#36
robhof Senior Member Join Date: September 16, 2007 Posts: 712	robhof With all you've done, I'd definitely opt for the exchange and have them test the wedge on the new one before sending, to be sure you don't have to start from square one again.

July 31, 2009, 09:14 AM	#39
enyaw Senior Member Join Date: November 28, 2008 Posts: 134	Clembert, I'm a cap&baller gunsmith. Fix guns for people from all over. Fixed the worst of the worst. Never had wedges stuck like a Pietta unless someone did some really weird thing to get it stuck. Piettas are very difficult to get the wedges out of when new. I had the same problem with new guns sent to me to accurize and fix the point of aim to the point of impact. I get all the wedges out. I'm not an engineer even though I studied Civil engineering in college most of three years. Interesting but off track for the post right? Sorry Bud. Anyway from years of "fixing everything imaginable" I've picked up certain mechanical attributes or added to my mechanical aptitude. Sometimes the Piettas have the rear of the arbor slot "even" with the rear barrel slots. That lets the wedge get stuck in the arbor slot when it contacts fore and aft in the arbor. (once the wedge is out you have to file the rear arbor slot away some so the wedge can contact only the barrel slots at the rear of the wedge. The wedge can't function when the rear of the arbor slot contacts the wedge) It does come loose though. Even when the wedge is installed mechanically correct but too tight. I think Pietta may kinda form fit the wedges for the perfect fit. ie Seat the wedge in the corresponding parts by force. Also the hook on the wedge spring (like Smoking Gun mentioned) that had ,pretty much, a 90 degree bend to its end grabs the barrel and gets caught by the spring tip hooking on the barrel. Know what I mean? When the wedge finally comes out that edge on the barrels slot where the wedge hook "was" will be re-shaped with a relief that's angled so the wedge spring can let the wedge out. The spring relieves the barrel there the first time the wedge comes out. That relief will be silver since the bluing is off there now. Can't see it unless you take the wedge out and look under that edge close. Anyway before wacking the wedge you should depress the tip of the wedge spring to " eyeball" whether or not there will be space for the spring to depress enough to enter the barrel slot. There are times,believe it or not that the wedge spring can't depress enough to clear the top of that barrel slot to get out. Don't ask me how they force it in that way. Anyway....it takes a substantial transfer of energy to knock the wedge loose. With the gun on it's side on a board with more wood to level the barrel the chance of arbor damage(loosen the arbor) is minimized substantially. Put the gun on wood with some wood under the barrel to make the gun level on it's side. Something softer than wood under the grip. Padded wood would work like to fold a shop rag to pad the wood under the grip. Use something substantial as a punch. Why a punch? If you wack the tip of the spring hard enough it may break the wedge spring. Gotta not hit the spring if it's possible so hitting the wedge with a hammer is bad(hitting the part of the wedge that sticks out of the barrel slot). If the wedge is flush with the barrel then it doesn't matter whether you hit the spring or not. Only when the spring hooks the outside of the barrel slot does it matter.Something substancial? Steel punch made from a screw driver shank with the wood or plastic handle removed. Use a steel hammer with some weight to hit the punch. It is a good idea to take a larger size screwdriver and grind the tip off some to widen the tip just almost as thick as the wedge under the spring. It doesn't matter if the screw driver is much thicker than the slot. Only the tip of the widened screw driver enters at the first movement of the wedge. You make sure some of the tip of the screw driver punch is thin enough to enter the wedge slot a little,like a quater inch or a little less at the first movement of the wedge. Make sure you try to controp the screw driver punch so you don't drive it too far in the wedge slot and deform the edges of the slot. Side note.....remove the wood or plastic from the screw driver shank so you are hitting steel to steel. Not too long of a screw driver though since the length of the screw driver shank absorbs energy and can flex under the blows of the hammer. Make the screw driver punch long enough to get your whole hand wrapped around it for a steady support. Wearing a leather glove absorbs some of the sting of holding the steel as it's hit with steel to move steel. The vibration and the energy wasted from the shank flexing goes into your hand so don't leave the shank too much longer than it needs to be to wrap your hand around it. You wrap you hand around the shank of the punch so the punch is supported and gets the energy transfered. The steel punch transfers energy better than brass. Brass for the initial hits to the wedge softens the transfer of energy some and all the energy has to transfer. Steel to steel to the steel wedge for the fist blows usually. It doesn't hurt a thing to try brass first though. The wedge may move with a brass punch. Use a brass punch with the end filed flat so it can enter the wedge slot (and not hit the spring tip)just a little . Use a brass punch that's at least 3/8ths inch diameter. Even a 1/2 inch diameter punch is good since the tip is filed flat for maybe a 1/4th inch. Don't make the flat part too long for the first blows to the wedge. If the brass fails and the steel is needed then you watch the wedge and the screw driver shank punch. When the wedge moves a little and the tapered screw driver is just about getting too thick for the slot then go to a punch or a thinner piece of steel(that fits into the slot and is almost as thick as the wedge and almost as wide since the bigger the punch the more energy transferred). Take the sharp edges off the edges of that piece of steel being used for a punch now (and file a notch so it doesn't hit the spring tip)that enters the wedge slot. Round off the edges just a tad so they won't catch the edge of the arbor slot or the edge of the barrel slot as the piece of steel enters and goes thru the wedge slot. In the beginning lay the big screw driver punch "square" on the edge of the wedge. You probably should file a notch so it doesn't hit the spring tip but you can have the end of the driver tip small enough to go under the spring tip. Make sure it's(screw driver shank punch) positioned so it isn't on the barrel anywhere. With the heavy hammer wack the punch and transfer the energy to the wedge. The punch needs to be wide in diameter (3/8ths) and the hammer a ball peen with some weight. A carpenters hammer will work too. Once the wedge moves a little you can try brass or nylon drift punches. It may still need the steel piece you made that can enter the wedge slot though. May need that to go all the way thru to the other side. Make sure that piece of steel is not as wide as the wedge nor as thick or you may get the wedge out and find the slab steel punch is now stuck in there. Laying the punches square on the wedge tip minimizes any deformation of the wedge tip. If there is a little deformation don't fret. Wedges are made for hitting them. They get dinged up some. A new wedge costs a good bit anymore(too much in my book) but it's not too costly to get a new one if you need a pristine gun. Anyway "Clembert" your punch used was too small to transfer enough energy. You need stiff punches for the first blows for the first small movement of the wedge. There are times that the wedge can shoot out with some force when it breaks loose and if there's room for it to do so it will fly a ways. When the gun is layed out like I suggested once the wedge moves a little and you may move the wedge easier then take out the wood that was under the wedge with a little space between. It was just there to make sure the wedge didn't move far enough for the screwdriver punch to enter the slot and ,since the screw driver is thicker than the wedge slot, deform the barrels slot some. Once the wedge moves enough make sure there's room for it too get all the way out. You know, pick it up and rest it on your legs sitting in the chair once the wedge gets easier to move. Once the wedge moves some it gets easier to wack all the way out. Keep the large screw driver punch and the piece of steel that can go thru the wedge slot to get the wedge all the way out with your shooting stuff you take with you to go shoot. You may want to take the barrel off your gun for some reason while at the range. Once the wedge has been in and out of the slot enough it pops right out with a lesser blow than the first time. I went thru the trouble to type this as a helper for anyone removing a new Pietta wedge that's stuck. Most of the new Piettas come with stuck wedges so chances are that if you return the gun because of a stuck wedge the exchange gun will have a stuck wedge also. Work carefully when removing a stuck wedge. You don't want to marr or scratch your barrel and if you do it properly you won't. Last edited by enyaw; July 31, 2009 at 09:45 AM.

July 29, 2009, 03:23 PM	#26
ClemBert Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2009 Location: Orlando Posts: 936	I was satisfied with this particular 1851's appearance. The cylinder did not free spin easily but it did turn easily enough when cocking the hammer. There was no binding against the barrel. However, this puppy is going back to Cabelas. I will ask them to exchange it. I would have liked to pump a few magnum loads through it to loosen it up a bit. That may have done the trick to loosen the wedge. But if I shoot it then I own it so I don't feel like risking it. With Cabelas generous return/exchange policy I think the safe play is to switch it out.

July 29, 2009, 03:37 PM	#28
ClemBert Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2009 Location: Orlando Posts: 936	Naw, no need to go through that. This is a new revolver from Cabelas and I'll just do an exchange. If this was bought "as is" or from the bargain bin then I'd just go shoot the poop outta it to loosen it up. Since it is new there is no need for the heroic approach.

July 29, 2009, 09:04 PM	#32
arcticap Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2005 Location: Central Connecticut Posts: 3,166	Maybe we should all email Pietta and tell them to start putting grease on their wedges and in the arbor/barrel slots. How much would that cost them, about a 1/2 cent?

July 30, 2009, 06:24 PM	#37
Deadguy Member Join Date: April 17, 2008 Location: WI Posts: 93	Mr. Pietta himself hangs out on the cascity.com forums (goes by the name Alchemista). Perhaps if a few of use went there and voiced our "experiences" with the gorilla that overtightens screws, nipples, and barrel wedges, Mr. Pietta might do something about it.

July 31, 2009, 08:41 AM	#38
sundance44s Senior Member Join Date: February 6, 2006 Location: Hernando , Ms. Posts: 579	Why not do it the easy way .. spend 3.99 order one of these , I`ve been useing one for years ...and it still works ...http://www.trackofthewolf.com/(S(xwr...Num=TOOL-KEY-B getting the wedge out of a Colt can be as hard as you want it to be .

July 31, 2009, 09:34 AM	#40
sundance44s Senior Member Join Date: February 6, 2006 Location: Hernando , Ms. Posts: 579	I`ll have to differ on enyaw`s advice on useing a steel punch ......if you hit it hard enough to move the wedge the steel punch will slip off the wedge and put a nasty looking scratch on the barrel ...I have never had one come out easy .......it will take a good wack with a fairly heavy hammer (I use a 21 oz frameing hammer ) and the brass punch shown in my last post ....................the brass punch will not leave any uglys on the barrel when it slips yet it is heavy enough to do the job with a good hammer . Save the steel punch for something besides gun smithing .

July 31, 2009, 10:16 AM	#41
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,189	I wouldn't want to use steel either. I might would if I had to but I wouldn't want to. My 60 Colt (Pietta) had a wedge that was a little hard to remove but nothing a couple of sharp raps with a plastic screwdriver handle didn't cure.

July 31, 2009, 04:31 PM	#42
breed Senior Member Join Date: June 9, 2009 Posts: 230	i would like to have the BT and TG off that gun.

July 31, 2009, 04:32 PM	#43
breed Senior Member Join Date: June 9, 2009 Posts: 230	it looks plated to me.

July 31, 2009, 07:36 PM	#44
Smokin' gun Senior Member Join Date: May 7, 2009 Posts: 121	Here is how to handle wedge removal on a pristine gun you just bought. Lay the gun on it's left side on blocks of wood and take a screw driver that's big enough but not too big for the wedge channel and knock it down with any kind of hammer. grease it. After shootin it rounds per day or a week or so - the wedge spring will finally break and you can just about pop it in or out w/ your palm. The plastic handle of your screw driver is a good tool for popping it in or out and tigtining barrel to cylinder. While all this is going on; order a spare wedge..so when you want to display or sell it--- your gun will still look pristine new again as long as you didn't bugger up the barrel. --

August 1, 2009, 01:04 AM	#45
sundance44s Senior Member Join Date: February 6, 2006 Location: Hernando , Ms. Posts: 579	I just noticed this purdy pistola is on sale at Cabelas for 239.00 ....was 299.00 I may have to order one for myself ...damn the wedge .

August 1, 2009, 01:05 AM	#46
EmptyHull Senior Member Join Date: March 29, 2009 Posts: 145	Clem, let us know how the new one does. I was bettin on you though! Tim

August 1, 2009, 02:04 AM	#47
enyaw Senior Member Join Date: November 28, 2008 Posts: 134	Sundance...the brass punch you posted a pic of....blade .083 in thick? The stuck Pietta wedges I've encountered would ruin that punch first time out of the gate. You'll run across one of the "tough ones" to get out someday.....the steel punches you save for other things besides gunsmithing.....remember where you put them. Anyone that isn't well versed in tool use....it would be best to take the gun back and exchange it before you might marr it if the wedge is stuck hard enough that a nylon punch can't get it out. Anywhooo....I like that brass punch posted in Sundances link. I'll get one. The punch Smoking Gun made for me years ago from space age nylon is gettin a little ragged. Sundance....you have a good point about steel can slip and marr the barrel. I wouldn't recommend a novice with the tools to use one. It is hard on the nerves if a barrel of a new gun gets scratched up. Especially if you get mad and beat the dang thing into a flat piece of scrap steel. That is how those really stuck wedges can make a guy feel. Mad Dog crazy mean and angry. That's not nice. Better to get a gunsmith to get the wedge out or send the gun back where it came from. If I could think of anything else to say I could put some more of those funny little faces in my post. Heck, may as well have some fun here. Now take heed folks....steel punches can slip and can scratch the barrel. A coupla layers like three or four will help protect the area around the wedge some. Not completely though. Later Pards.

August 1, 2009, 07:04 AM	#48
sundance44s Senior Member Join Date: February 6, 2006 Location: Hernando , Ms. Posts: 579	Hey ya Wayner ...I didn`t know that was you ...no doubt if done with much care a steel punch could be used ...but for me not worth a slip on a purdy Italian made pistol ....evpecially this one with the engraveing .... I`m not sure how thick the brass punch is I posted but I have wacked the hell out of it and only mushroomed the flat tip a little ..it has never bent . You may already have one of these lyman hammers , nylon on one side brass on the other and the heads are replaceable ...these work well too if the wedge isn`t stuck too bad .http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=192310 The brass drift punch I posted earlyer works better with a heavy hammer for wedges that are factory new stuck .

August 1, 2009, 10:27 AM	#49
enyaw Senior Member Join Date: November 28, 2008 Posts: 134	Sundance, when you convert yer Sharps to the Gremmer model that looks like a Hawken/Sharps with two wedge keys holding the new forearm with the nosecap that punch will come in handy. How'd you know this was me,Wayner? The Track of the Wolf link had the size of that punch. It must be the harder type brass. The yellow versas the white brass? Yer right about that purty gun and the steel punch slippin on that engraved barrel. That would be crying time to put a big scratch on it. I have one just like it. Nice looking and nice shooter too. Doesn't shoot real high(niether of my Pietta Navy Colts do) and shoots straight. I'd hate to hit the engraving with a steel punch. That tells the story. Drive the stuck wedges out carefully or run the risk of damage. Pietta should fit those wedges and then loosen them back up so people don't damage their new guns. I don't understand the reasoning behind Piettas wedges being stuck. They must kinda form fit to seat them in conjunction to the bottomed arbors(which I love on those Peittas...the bottomed arbors)but why leave them stuck? Those stuck wedges are difficult for almost everyone to get out and.....I've never heard too many say they are not difficult. Even if a person had one of those presses for pressing bearings and all it would be a chore to set up a jig or whatever to press out the stuck wedges. I've just had to remove shrink fit collars and pressed fit bearings from my antique tractors rear axles. I drilled and chiseled the shrink fit collars and took a burning torch to the pressed fit bearings. Man, they were almost as hard to get off as a stuck Pietta wedges. Your recomendation about a heavier hammer is the main stay of getting off a really stuck Pietta wedge. I'll tellya those wedges should be remedied at the factory before they are put in the boxes to ship to the US. Would someone please tell Alchimista to get his shop foreman to get that done??? Those Piettas are too nice to risk damage right off the bat because of a stuck wedge. Anywhoooo....yous the man Sundance....with good advise.

August 1, 2009, 04:49 PM	#50
sundance44s Senior Member Join Date: February 6, 2006 Location: Hernando , Ms. Posts: 579	Wayner , Shadow , lucky guess on my part I think I can pick your and Smokinguns posting out ......seen alot of them . That brass drift is made out of a harder probally American made brass , ( may have a little more bronze ) or something in it .....but it won`t bend nor will it scratch the Italian made steel ...so far anyway . I have mushroomed the tip some what on mine , I need to dress it up before I use it again ...but it has seen alot of service . I use the plastic head on my little lyman hammer once I get one broke free , and for the Hawken type barrel wedges ...........but no doubt a new Colt made by Pietta has a wedge installed by a guy with issues ...I think he must be the same guy tightening the screws on the Pietta Remingtons too . For no other reason I always recomend some one start their black powder pistol experience with a new Remington , instead of the 1851 Navy . See ya back at the camp fire at Voy Forum ..... (I`ll have to push Dick Dork out of my seat when I get back ) ...