Why do people "downgrade" for the survival rifle?

[Beentown71]

I am that guy...kinda.

I have nice rifles in my safe. I have an AK in the bottom of my BOB. I may grab my extra rifles but I KNOW that one works and is in my BOB with mags and ammo. It is ready all the time and I don't take it out but every 6 months to re-lube. If it is truely a grab a go situation that one is always ready and I can enjoy the other rifles in the mean time.

My bug out location has my survival rifles and ammo. Mostly in the .22 variety.

[highpower3006]

I too, have a variety of weapons to choose from. In a pinch anything is way better than nothing. That being said, I have settled on my PSA Mforgery (14.5" barrel w/pinned flashhider) and my old reliable Beretta 92. Relatively light weapons for the caliber, Ammo is also fairly light and it would probably be available anywhere here in the US.

If I was just trying to survive in the woods, hands down it would be a .22 rifle and/or pistol.

[Mobuck]

Most of my rifles are just typical hunting rifles but a few have some sentimental significance and I would hesitate to use them as a "survival" rifle-not that they wouldn't serve the purpose.
Keep in mind the type of use the survival rifle gets. Carried full time, dropped, dinged, clanked, soaked, handled constantly-those things are going to leave a mark. I carry a Ruger 22/45 that I bought cheap because the seller's dog had chewed the base of the grip fairly severely. It doesn't affect the function of the pistol and I have no qualms about how I use it. Trapline use is tough on a handgun-mud, water, blood, dropped in the lake. I wouldn't think of taking Dad's old High Standard on that mission even though it would do the job. Neither would I haul out a S&W kit gun for such use.
If I thought I MIGHT need the firepower, I wouldn't leave an AR stored and carry a H&R single shot .223. Some guns are just there to use and some are more like old friends that you don't feel good about abusing.

[rickyrick]

If you have access to all of your firearms, you could use the cheapo survival rifles to ARM family members or friends while retaining the good rifles for yourself.

[Rifleman 173]

I have a couple of different rifles that I use for training purposes. But I have one precision rifle that is my primary rifle for survival purposes. Since I have intently studied my shooting craft over and over, I practice for close range engagements and longer range precision shooting needs too. I do tactical shooting (high speed, multiple target scenarios) and stalking/stealth shooting scenarios too. I have taught myself to do double taps at close range for most tactical shooting and have also learned to do the Mozambique shooting scenario of 2 to the chest and 1 to the head just in case I bump into any drugged up zombie bad guys. Zombie is my slang for bad guys and not like the t.v. and movie zombies. Zombies = goblins = hobgoblins and so on.

[PH/CIB]

In a true individual survival situation living off a pack on my back I would probably grab either my AR or my Vepr AK in 556,,,even tho I prefer 308,,,if I did not know how long it might be before I could replentish ammo I can carry a lot more rounds of 556. I would also grab a 22 long rifle pistol and a brick of ammo 500 rounds for small game hunting. In an individual survival situation with just me to supply for,, I have no problem carrying the most expensive firearms in my arsenal.

In a collective survival situation with a lot of people it becomes a whole different ballgame where a rifle that gets you by but is not the most expensive or best will probably have to do. With a defensive perimeter with a well for water or a stream or pond for water, and the ability to grow food and livestock, that is a whole different ballgame. Even though I would prefer people with different skill sets in the medical, mechanical, agricutural, and defensive skill sets, just to name a few, who have their own supplies and firearms and know how to use them and would meet at our prearranged perimeter,,,there will always be family members and friends who are not prepared for anything...For them a reliable and relatively accurate rifle will work, they dont need the best as the best for all would be cost prohibitive, but they do need a reliable and combat accurate rifle. An AR15 or AK74 would be best as there is very little recoil and they are easy to shoot easy to train a newbie on. For the more experienced a good 308 battle rifle extends the range that you can defend the perimeter out to, and for your best marksmen a couple of 338 Lapua rifles with good glass pushes the defense of your perimeter out even further for counter sniper work,, past what most guys with other calibers can shoot accurately into your perimeter. As you can see with a limited budjet you probably could not afford the best just the best quality that you could afford.

I quess I must have some Swiss in me,,,I love the idea of a National Militia with a rifle in every closet and ammo in every closet and food and water and medical supplies in every home...

At one time I was thinking of buying ten or twelve Mosin Nagants,,,they are still around $70-80 dollars on AIM SURPLUS and for $700 I could have ten rifles and the ammo is cheap...I have not done it because it is a bolt action rifle slow to fire and reload especially for the inexperienced and the recoil might be too much for the inexperienced.

[darkgael]

An earlier post asked a very good question.
What do you mean when you say "survival"?
Evidently, based on the responses in this thread, the word can have many meanings (and it does).
What is the situation and how long will it last?
Are you home during a period of civil unrest?
Are you on the road alone? With your family? Are you trying to get somewhere? Are you without a home (gotta carry everything?)? Floatplane crashed west of Denali?
Has the "world gone belly up"?
Do you have a means for resupply or do you have to carry all the ammo that you'll need for the forseeable future? On foot? In a car?
For many of these, I'd pick a .22 - or that little, clumsy looking "survival rifle". For others, I'd want a heavier rifle....but not if I had to carry all the ammo that I might need. It'd be a hunting rifle.....a firearm with some reach. Yes, I would certainly consider that expensive and very accurate hunting rifle.
I cannot envision any scenarios in which I'd choose either an AR or an AK, other than last ditch defense of my home. In any other situation, they are a compromise in many ways. Not the best hunting rifles, ammo bulkier and heavier than .22LR...what they excel at is combat. If combat is what you mean by "survival", then perhaps. By oneself, on the road, chances of surviving an encounter with a determined enemy -especially if there is more than one and I am alone - are slim and none and not particularly enhanced by an AK/AR.
Avoidance is the plan. If I cannot avoid, I may be well and truly f.....d. As would most people be.
IMHO
Pete

[BIG P]

Never looked at it as a downgrades,Just different tools for different jobs.

My AR's & AK's are pretty nice rifles,Along with My long range bolt guns.
Dont think of any of mine as down grades.

[rickyrick]

Well my true thoughts of a survival rifle would be needing a squirrel or rabbit to munch on.

Let's say a downed airforce pilot, he is not going to survive conflicting with the enemy. He will survive by staying hidden and moving quietly until he can escape or help arrives. So a .22 will fit the bill as it won't be noticed very far away.

So it depends are you talking true survival, seeking water, shelter and food? Or are we talking about repelling a siege at your perimeter? In the latter case, it would be others seeking basic survival needs. And you are in a defensive situation.

The sound of your high powered rifle echoing across the devastated plains is going to invite others to investigate what you might have of value, might be the rifle itself, everyone will need one.

[shaunpain]

I own a 12 gauge and rifles and pistols in varying calibers that were purposefully purchased with one common ethos: utility. I have platforms that I am interested in and always wanted to own, but nothing fancy and certainly no race horses or competition medalists. My only requirement is that they fulfill a caliber desire, in the specific actions I prefer (mostly bolt guns and single action semis), and that they shoot straight. Any gun will do as long as your caliber is sufficient. Many of the members of this forum own magnificent specimens of firearms we may not even know exist. I would bet two paychecks that none of those guns are going into the fight. I don't have that kind of wallet. I'm taking whatever's loaded and closest to me. Dang, it's probably gonna be the Mossberg! 99% stop will win me over every time.

[m_liebst]

.22lr all day for a survival rifle:

Whats it gonna take to sling around 1000+ rds of .223/ .308/ vs. 2 bricks of .22lr

Not to mention your high powered rifle/ scope setup will be heavier lugging around on most occasions.

With the .22lr, my pack will actually have quite alot of room left for all my other necessaties.

The report of a .22lr "especially subsonic loads" is not going to be recognized from a far compared to higher calibers.

.22lr is the most commonly manufactured/ used/ popular/ tradable/ attainable ammo- hands down

Look... I agree that the .22lr isn't on the top of my list for stoppage power.
but I'm looken at the survival/compatability aspect here.

Velocitors and HV nickel plated shell ammo -like stingers for longer ammo life..
I take the 10/22 carbine all-weather synthetic stock- my wifey carries the 22/45...

[tahunua001]

I personally have never heard of someone saying this. most of the time I see guys that tote 308, 30-06 and 300 win mag that claim they would take a 10/22 or something like that. I personally don't own any really high quality weapons but I also have my safe queens but the second I have to bug out to the mountains I'll grab as many of them as I can for every situation I MIGHT encounter and grab as much ammo as possible and leave the world behind me.

[L_Killkenny]

Whats it gonna take to sling around 1000+ rds of .223/ .308/ vs. 2 bricks of .22lr

You ain't gonna catch me toteing 1000 rounds of anything in a survival situation. A centerfire with 20-25 rounds of ammo is plenty, maybe double it if I were to decide on a rimfire.

There's survival and then there's SHTF and beleive it or not there is a difference. I read all sorts of survival books, watched lot's of TV, done a much primitive camping and wilderness trips yet never once have I heard, seen or needed 1000 rounds. Save the 1000 round count for zombie threads.

LK

[zombieslayer]

I love zombie threads!
Lookin fwd to halloween again!

[BigMikey76]

I am not a really big "bug out" planner - I just don't see the likelyhood that I will ever have to do it. Having said that, I have put some thought into it, and of the weapons I have, I would take my .22 if I had to choose one. Sure, it is cheaper and has less stopping power than my nicer deer rifle, but it is also lighter, and semi-auto instead of bolt action. Factor that in with the availability, weight and size differences between .22 ammo and pretty much anything else, and it becomes a no brainer.
Given the option, naturally I would take both, and I wouldn't worry about scratching up the wood on my 7-08, but sometimes you just have to take one and be done.

[m_liebst]

LOL I love zombie threads too


Quote: I read all sorts of survival books, watched lot's of TV, done a much primitive camping and wilderness trips yet never once have I heard, seen or needed 1000 rounds. Save the 1000 round count for zombie threads.


Well now you've heard my opinion- if thats the first for you

[dayman]

I live so far out in the woods that I'm not sure where I'd "bug out" to.... Maybe climb a tree? That being said, as a paranoid man, I do have a packed BOB ready to go.

I think to answer the OP's question, the reason people choose a cheap gun for their bug out is that they're seeing it as a dedicated purpose gun. It's easy to shell out the money for a high point to stuff into you BOB where - hopefully - you'll never use it - separate from your other guns.

Personally, I don't keep a gun in my BOB at all - if I did it would probably be a .22 pistol for portability. However, I'm more worried about water purification, food, and shelter than defense in a bug out scenario, and there's only so much room in my pack.

As things stand if I had time I'd probably just grab my 30-30 (or better yet my bow) on the way out the door.

[Grant D]

Like dayman said... I live in the country,where would I go?? the city?? not!!
I'll just stay at home with all my guns and supplies.

[droptrd]

Just because an Arsenal costs 2-3 more than a WASR doesnt neccesarily mean its better. The tolerances of manufacturing are and can be fairly wide. The aresenal parts are factory mass produced just as the wasr. Arsenal IME just seems to take a little more time and care when assembling/converting their rifles. But factory tolerances can make a difference when talking about individual rifles. Maybe the said WASR shoots more acurately and more reliably. For me a doomsday situation calls for the most reliable weapons I have. If thats means my $1500 RRA stays home and my $400 WASR comes with me so be it.

I can honestly say, if i were ever to be in a SHTF violent confrontation, I would never ever say - "I surrender! You guys have more expensive rifles than I do! I Surrender!"

But then again, ive never been a price tag elitist.

In a survival situation its function over form(and price)

[Double Naught Spy]

If you have access to all of your firearms, you could use the cheapo survival rifles to ARM family members or friends while retaining the good rifles for yourself.

Yes, but if I am arming them, then maybe I don't to go the downgraded route on them anymore than for me.

Just because an Arsenal costs 2-3 more than a WASR doesnt neccesarily mean its better.

Right, there are some good and fairly inexpensive rifles. Cost isn't what determines quality or applicability, though better quality gun do tend to cost more.

I read all sorts of survival books, watched lot's of TV, done a much primitive camping and wilderness trips yet never once have I heard, seen or needed 1000 rounds. Save the 1000 round count for zombie threads.

I don't think folks in a crisis ever complained about having extra ammunition left over, but many certainly have complained about not having enough. 1000 rounds is a lot, but maybe if you are a Korean business owner during the last Watts riots, then you know exactly what it feels like to use your gun in self defense to protect your business (in some cases business and home) and family from rioters for multiple days with no clear indication as to when the rioters would be stopped.

[rickyrick]

DNS, first of all hi-5

A lesson I learned early in the army, no matter how advanced a fighting force. Somebody has to burn poop.

As the one supplying the weapons, I would think myself as the regime leader, therefore exempt from burning poop......and exempt from the AR7

[saltydog452]

It'd depend on just what you intend to survive. And for how long.

A closed breech, takedown .22rf with decent peeps like the 39A seems to make sense to me.

salty

[Willie Lowman]

Zombie is my slang for bad guys and not like the t.v. and movie zombies. Zombies = goblins = hobgoblins and so on

Oh, so you can dehumanize the people you are fantasizing about shooting. Got it.

[Edward429451]

Perhaps he should rehearse a scenario where he takes the bad guys out to eat and gets to know them real good and understand it was the moms fault for holding him too much/little when he was young?

I don't understand the point you're perhaps trying to make? Being emotionally detached from someone who may be trying to victimize you would seem to me to be an obvious and preferable position to be in.

[Buzzcook]

The end of the world as we know it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzqiPvGrkTo

For me a "survival" rifle is for when I misplace myself in the wilderness. Since most of my time in the wilderness is when I'm hunting or hiking I already have two default guns. A .30-06 bolt action for the former and a Ruger MK II for the later.
Occasionally I'll have a .22 rifle when I'm hiking.

If I were to be dropped off somewhere in the middle of nowhere I'd opt for my Marlin 60. A close second would be my 20ga pump.

Future dystopia or civil unrest don't really concern me.

On edit Here's a "teotwawki" forum.
http://www.survivalistboards.com/tag...fter+teotwawki