Robber walks in with gun already drawn - Page 5

Glenn E. Meyer · December 20, 2013, 12:48 PM

Why say anything? If he passes you, that's OK. If you start to yap, might get shot.

I've ridden the subways enough to understand that mentality.

Double Naught Spy · December 20, 2013, 01:29 PM

LOL, Glenn, they don't even act like they have been robbed. They respond with about as much physical representation as giving a train conductor their ticket. They know he is still on the bus and sit there like zombies, most of them.

**Frank Ettin** · December 20, 2013, 01:52 PM

Well some passengers did join in once the good guy took the initial action.

And I agree that the good guy was luck. Some of the passengers were too.

The initial move the good guy used, turning the gun in 90 degrees against the weak side of the wrist, is one of several disarms I've trained on in a number of classes. But one thing every instructor teaching disarms has said: "The bad guy will almost always get one shot off." So maybe the gun indeed wasn't loaded or was non-functional.

Glenn E. Meyer · December 28, 2013, 12:31 PM

Here's one for you.

As the story says - did everything wrong.

http://www.policeone.com/bizarre/art...daysTopStories

OuTcAsT · December 29, 2013, 09:45 AM

Quote:

As the story says - did everything wrong.

Lets see: she disarmed the BG without anyone being shot, kept her composure, followed the BG armed with HIS firearm, and pointed LE right to him. By "conventional" wisdom, perhaps she did everything "wrong" Sounds like she had the proper mindset to pull off what she did in stellar fashion. I have a hard time seeing the "wrong" personally. Looks like the famous "wrong girl" showed up just in time.

Glenn E. Meyer · December 29, 2013, 12:12 PM

She did as much wrong as the woman in the Glock ad that was denounced here.

**Frank Ettin** · December 29, 2013, 01:05 PM

Sometimes you can do things wrong and by the vagaries of chance get a good result. And sometimes you can do things right and by the vagaries of chance get a bad result.

That's especially true when you're dealing with other people who themselves might or might not be making good choices under the circumstances.

Glenn E. Meyer · January 1, 2014, 02:43 PM

Here's another for you.

http://www.policeone.com/police-hero...-with-own-gun/

If the vet pulled the trigger - it would have been quite the mess.

Glenn

Compromise · January 4, 2014, 07:29 AM

Quote:

Quote:
My point remains the same.
Whether you're "playing" with friends or "drilling" with coworkers, you're not actually defending yourself from the turning target, and you know that you're going to draw ahead of time.
Your draw speed when you're waiting and expecting to draw is going to be far faster than your "real world" draw speed.
Right! The decision has already been made to shoot. You may be standing with a pen and notebook, but you are already geared up to shoot, everything adjusted correctly, and ready to go. There are no real world consequences for shooting the wrong person. You know the range is clear behind the targets.

I run a diagnostic drill that doesn't get rid of all the variables at all, but is illustrative of what I can expect to be a best case scenario for shooting. The only timed number I figure that is remotely accurate of my real world capability is a cold drill where I get out of my car, put on my eye and ear protection, and proceed to the line for the drill without adjusting any gear or garb, then run the drill at defensive speed. I am consistently slower, or less accurate, or both on this first drill than after I warm up. When we ran this drill with the shooting group, we found folks could shave as much as 1.5 seconds off their time and increase their accuracy to 100% with shooting a Mozambique at just 7 yards...AFTER they warmed up and had everything adjusted just-so, ready for the firing line.

What this drill illustrated is that for defensive shooting purposes, a given person will not be consistently as accurate or as fast as what they like to think their accuracy and times are, not unless they get into a gun fight right after they leave the gun range.
__________________
"If you look through your scope and see your shoe, aim higher."
-- said to me by my 11 year old daughter before going out for hogs 8/13/2011

this is where the R.A.T comes into training.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bONuP9wAm-g

December 20, 2013, 12:48 PM	#101
Glenn E. Meyer Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2000 Posts: 20,064	Why say anything? If he passes you, that's OK. If you start to yap, might get shot. I've ridden the subways enough to understand that mentality. __________________ NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc. - Aux Armes, Citoyens

December 20, 2013, 01:29 PM	#102
Double Naught Spy Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2001 Location: Forestburg, Montague Cnty, TX Posts: 12,717	LOL, Glenn, they don't even act like they have been robbed. They respond with about as much physical representation as giving a train conductor their ticket. They know he is still on the bus and sit there like zombies, most of them. __________________ "If you look through your scope and see your shoe, aim higher." -- said to me by my 11 year old daughter before going out for hogs 8/13/2011 My Hunting Videos https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange

December 20, 2013, 01:52 PM	#103
Frank Ettin Staff Join Date: November 23, 2005 Location: California - San Francisco Posts: 9,471	Well some passengers did join in once the good guy took the initial action. And I agree that the good guy was luck. Some of the passengers were too. The initial move the good guy used, turning the gun in 90 degrees against the weak side of the wrist, is one of several disarms I've trained on in a number of classes. But one thing every instructor teaching disarms has said: "The bad guy will almost always get one shot off." So maybe the gun indeed wasn't loaded or was non-functional. __________________ "It is long been a principle of ours that one is no more armed because he has possession of a firearm than he is a musician because he owns a piano. There is no point in having a gun if you are not capable of using it skillfully." -- Jeff Cooper

December 28, 2013, 12:31 PM	#104
Glenn E. Meyer Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2000 Posts: 20,064	Here's one for you. As the story says - did everything wrong. http://www.policeone.com/bizarre/art...daysTopStories __________________ NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc. - Aux Armes, Citoyens

December 29, 2013, 12:12 PM	#106
Glenn E. Meyer Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2000 Posts: 20,064	She did as much wrong as the woman in the Glock ad that was denounced here. __________________ NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc. - Aux Armes, Citoyens

December 29, 2013, 01:05 PM	#107
Frank Ettin Staff Join Date: November 23, 2005 Location: California - San Francisco Posts: 9,471	Sometimes you can do things wrong and by the vagaries of chance get a good result. And sometimes you can do things right and by the vagaries of chance get a bad result. That's especially true when you're dealing with other people who themselves might or might not be making good choices under the circumstances. __________________ "It is long been a principle of ours that one is no more armed because he has possession of a firearm than he is a musician because he owns a piano. There is no point in having a gun if you are not capable of using it skillfully." -- Jeff Cooper

January 1, 2014, 02:43 PM	#108
Glenn E. Meyer Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2000 Posts: 20,064	Here's another for you. http://www.policeone.com/police-hero...-with-own-gun/ If the vet pulled the trigger - it would have been quite the mess. Glenn __________________ NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc. - Aux Armes, Citoyens