Range accident today

[mehavey]

BP loaded rounds don't go funky/degrade... barring someone pouring a load of bear grease on top of the powder/under the ball.

Key question. . .was it BP?






** Sidenote: The N-SSA has the formal command "Snap Caps" the beginning of each day's event.
Everyone points their barrel down for 2-3 caps/watch grass move.
Every once on a great, Great, GREAT while you'll hear "BOOM !."
... and 2-300 men look down the line to see who has big the smoking hole in the ground in front of them.

[kmw1954]

No mention has been made as to they type of powder or the projectile.

As of yesterday morning; new range rule, all muzzle loaders must fire a cap before proceeding.

[SIGSHR]

In CW and RevWar reenacting clearing the muskets is mandatory after a battle, dumping powder, snapping a cap, the unit commander checks each partcipant by ordering them to "Spring Rammer", they hear the ping of metal against metal, they know it has been cleared properly.

[kmw1954]

I know zero about BP so I am completely in the dark on this subject. Though I thought it was common practice for these guns to mark the ramrod to indicate the bullet is fully seated?

[JohnKSa]

As of yesterday morning; new range rule, all muzzle loaders must fire a cap before proceeding.

That's should be standard practice at the start of a shooting session with percussion BP firearm.

https://www.americanrifleman.org/con...loading-rifle/

"Before loading a muzzleloader, it’s helpful to fire a few caps to make sure the nipple and vent hole into the breech is clear."

https://beasafehunter.org/loading-fi...g-muzzleloader

"With the muzzle pointed in a safe direction, "dry fire" a couple of caps to make sure that the passage through the nipple is clear. "

Though I thought it was common practice for these guns to mark the ramrod to indicate the bullet is fully seated?

The person wasn't following common practice in one or more ways:

If we believe their story then they didn't properly unload their firearm at the end of hunting season and they didn't start out the firing session by firing a cap or two, both of which are common practice.

If we don't believe their story then they loaded improperly in some other way, by either putting hugely too much powder in, perhaps also leaving an air gap or perhaps using smokeless powder instead of BP.

[Pahoo]

WOW, we are going all over the place on this thread and all are "mostly" spot-on. Just about each reply would be good start of a new thread. ......

I know zero about BP so I am completely in the dark on this subject. Though I thought it was common practice for these guns to mark the ramrod to indicate the bullet is fully seated?

Sir, you are correct and even though it is advised, many shooters don't follow. I restore and fabricate, new rods. I find many of the old rods to be scribed with a knife to show the historical full load and some recommend an empty load reference.

"Spring Rammer", they hear the ping of metal against metal, they know it has been cleared properly.

Good point and simple in it's use. We teach this....

BP loaded rounds don't go funky/degrade... barring someone pouring a load of bear grease on top of the powder/under the ball.

Rare but never say never as I have seen this happen and took me more than a few tries over the span of four days, to clear.

That first charge sat in the barrel for a year and probably "got funky" over time exposed to temperature/humidity changes.

The stuck load mentioned above sat in the condition you mentioined, for five-years......

There is an old muzzlerloader's saying that goes "you're not a TRUE muzzleloader until you've, loaded with no powder, loaded with no ball, double loaded, and shot your ramrod, ...at least once!"

Certainly not anything to crow about but yep, it happens I have Dry-Balled, pushed a stuck range-rod with a CO2. I have never double loaded and most of the time M/L folks make mistakes in loading, when they lose track of what they are doing. When I do, I dump the load and start all over again. When we teach a large group, Initially, I do all the loading and stay out of any conversations. ......

[reynolds357]

Not to go off topic, but this is one reason I am glad Georgia allows Youth to use modern center-fire during muzzleloader season. A lot of people get hurt with muzzleloaders. They shouldn't, but that's its own discussion.

[kmw1954]

Folks, after this discussion a thought has come that being as I work the range as an RO maybe I need to be more educated. Until now I have never had an interest in BP firearms which is the reason for my ignorance.

May now need to look into the purchase of one and also start reading and researching.

[Pahoo]

May I suggest that before you purchase an M/L, buy or read a copy of The Lyman Black Powder manual. There is a ton reference material out there. You can view some "fairly" good videos on YouTube but be careful as some is not entirely accurate or safe .....

https://www.amazon.com/Lyman-Powder-.../dp/B0000C6I4U

Be Safe !!!

[JohnKSa]

May now need to look into the purchase of one and also start reading and researching.

You may find that you really enjoy it. Even if you don't, the process of learning about it will be interesting and fun.

[DaleA]

Folks, after this discussion a thought has come that being as I work the range as an RO maybe I need to be more educated.

Certainly education is a Good Thing but at one indoor 50 foot range I shot at during a weekly league shoot we had the range to ourselves and one night after our league shooting was done one member asked to shoot his BP revolver. Six shots out of his gun we had trouble seeing the targets for the smoke. After that BP was not allowed.

The rest of the story: six rounds of BP out of his period revolver DID smoke up the range but after a while, when the smoke didn't dissipate and actually grew thicker we realized he had set the plastic tarp in front of the shooting positions on fire. It was short work for us to go forward and stomp out the smoldering tarp but that contributed to the 'no black powder' rule from then on.

Additional note: The range in question was at Como Park Pavilion in St. Paul, MN and to make it economical to heat in the winter time there was a wall on the firing line with dutch doors to open to your lane so the shooters were really separated from the range itself. It made the range easier to heat and safer too as no one could even get in front of the firing line without going through some effort and contortions. (Which we all did to get in front of the line and stomp out the smoldering tarp.)

[tdrizzle]

Not Columbia County, I hope. I was just there a couple of weeks ago with my brother.

[mehavey]

Anyone yet figure out what actual powder was being used...?

[Jim Watson]

Six shots out of his gun we had trouble seeing the targets for the smoke.

Interesting, a friend brought his flintlock - TC Patriot - to the indoor range in the basement of the WPA era National Guard Armory, what a dungeon. Even with 1930s ideas of ventilation, the smoke would clear between shots. Difference between a muzzleloader and a sixshooter.

[Aqualife]

Grew up in PA near Valley Forge. On high school trip to the park ranger told story how revolutionary soldiers flintlock guns sometimes would not fire. But being in battle shooting endless shots they would not notice. After loading three shoots on top of each other their rifles would explode. I’m sure this was all urban legend.

As a kid this made an impression on me. Seeings how we had to shoot flint in PA. So loaded my flintlock and seated the ram rod in barrel. Then made circle around the rod with my knife. If I ever double loaded then that line would be too high off the barrel.

Always loved That I came up with that idea even thought I’d never heard of someone doing a double charge in real life.

[FrankenMauser]

If we believe their story then they didn't properly unload their firearm at the end of hunting season and they didn't start out the firing session by firing a cap or two, both of which are common practice.

A few years ago, I removed a live round of .358 Winchester from a .50 cal muzzleloader.
The primer was scary looking, with a bunch of dents and gouges from the owner slamming a ball puller into it and trying to get the screw tip to bite.

Loaded.
But not in the usual way....

[jcj54]

There were many instances in the Civil War of just such occurrences.
My grandfather, a long time gunsmith, related that on a number of occasions when reenacting was getting started people would bring family handed down muskets for him to check over. This was before the replica market was going. On at least 6 occasions he removed loads from the barrels. In one instance there were 3, in the second there were 5.
If the first had finally gone off the soldier would have had a bad day.