Questions about Single-Action

NRAhab · July 17, 2006, 12:06 PM

I know that there are probably one or two people out there that have a single action wheel gun for home defense, or even personal carry.

So here's my question, then. When you draw, are you cocking the hammer immediately, or do you leave the hammer down?

This is an extended discussion from a buddy who works a ranch. He advocates using the hammer in a similar fashion to pumping a shotgun; ie as an audible warning.

Please don't reply with "get a 1911/glock/whatever".

tjhands · July 17, 2006, 12:30 PM

I'm interested in hearing the responses to this. I've never heard of using a SA revolver for home defense. I think it's safe to say that it's not the best choice for the average shooter. Too much "mind work" at the crucial moment, if you're going to have to cock the hammer, aim, and pull trigger. The less you have to think about, mechanically speaking, the better.
But I suppose one could argue that carrying a 1911 in a cocked-and-locked configuration is just as involved to activate, what with having to flick off the safety first.
I'm sure if you practiced enough at home with a SA revolver in mock scenarios, you could become proficient enough with it to make it viable.

But really, just get a Glock.

NRAhab · July 17, 2006, 01:12 PM

I'm marginally curious as to why this was moved. While it is specific to revolver users, it concerns a tactical question.

To rephrase "If using a single action wheelgun, should you cover a target with the hammer cocked or not?"

revjen45 · July 17, 2006, 01:33 PM

Cocked with finger off the trigger. Cock the hammer when presenting. If you are covering the target you don't want 2 things you have to do to fire.

beenthere · July 17, 2006, 01:34 PM

Today is one of those days avery month or so when I can't use my right hand because of an arthritis "flare". It may be here for a day or a week.

With a SA I can shoot with my left hand while using the edge of my right hand to cock it.

1. My hands aren't always strong enough to shoot DA.

2 No Ambi safety on my auto.

3. Right hand useless today for jacking a slide.

Days like this a SA is my everything gun, and to be consistent it is on it's way to being my always everything gun.

Cocked with my finger off the trigger.

Bullrock · July 17, 2006, 01:37 PM

Aside from using a SA revolver for HD, that's one hellova question. If you were pulling the SA revolver from a holster, the first contact should be with the thumb on the hammer. (Some old gunfighters recommend the thumb wrapped around the hammer to avoid slipage). Either way you would be covering your target fully cocked.

If it's a bedside revolver, some folks would recommend covering your target, hammer down, just in case it happens to be unannounced company coming over for a late night beer.

For myself, I'd cock that sucker everytime...

timothy75 · July 17, 2006, 02:04 PM

Treat the hammer as if it were a saftey on a 1911. With your thumb on it you can have it cocked before you finish your presentation.

mjrodney · July 17, 2006, 02:32 PM

My FWIW thoughts, as someone who owns both SA and DA revolvers, and who relies on a wheelgun for defensive purposes almost exclusively.

If I were to rely on a SA for defensive purposes, I would have my thumb on the hammer, but that hammer would be down.

If I were to cock that hammer, I would now have a weapon that is relatively easy to touch off. Less than 3 lbs of trigger pull on mine.

Perhaps a hair (trigger) too easy.

I hardly consider myself to be a Rambo and I can see me jumping from an involuntary reaction to something that might startle me. My senses would return within a second or so, but would that startled reaction cause me to place my finger on the trigger and squeeze it before I could recover? Maybe when it really wasn't necessary?

I dunno.

DA rules......if you practice.

Ala Dan · July 17, 2006, 03:17 PM

I agree, thumb on the hammer with the hammer being "at rest" (down).
I don't advocate using a SA handgun for home D', as there are too
many particulars to have too deal with, when confronting an adversary.
Add too the fact, that the only SA revolver I own is a brand NIB Ruger
50th Anniversay Blackhawk .357 mag Flattop that has NEVER been fired.
While I like this firearm very much, I have others that are better suited
for home D'*~!

*FootNote: currently, a 4" service model Springfield XD-.45 ACP with a
Streamlight TLR-1 serves that purpose.

Bullrock · July 17, 2006, 03:27 PM

Quote:

MJRodney, If I were to cock that hammer, I would now have a weapon that is relatively easy to touch off. Less than 3 lbs of trigger pull on mine.

Maybe, but if you left your thumb on the hammer, or wrapped around the hammer it shouldn't go off if you have control of the weapon. Practice and familiarity with your SA will give you that edge.

Ever handle a cowboy gun? Whenever I pick one up I always work the trigger and the hammer. Cock the trigger, lower the hammer, cock the trigger, lower the hammer, with my finger still on the trigger. (Unloaded of course)

And the same action loaded, down range. Knowing your gun and how it will perform is the way to determine how you will handle it during an emergency.

Otherwise, trade for a SA/DA revolver.

Frenchy · July 18, 2006, 05:25 AM

I will have to agree with Bullrock here. It is a matter of familiarity and comfort zone.
All things being equal, I would go with a double action revolver. However...If the single action is your thing, you can become just as safe and proficient with it.

NRAhab · July 18, 2006, 09:20 AM

The point of this was more to settle a debate between a buddy and myself. A Ruger GP100 sleeps next to me.

Majic · July 18, 2006, 04:26 PM

Hammer cocked coming up on target and finger off the trigger until ready to fire. It doesn't matter how light a trigger may be if the finger is not on it, but the revolver should be ready to fire.
Use and learn the single action. Too many people actually try to treat them like a double action by having that finger on the trigger and thinking the revolver is easily cocked when pointed at the target. A single action is easily cocked when the revolver is in a verticle motion as in during the draw and recovering from recoil.

TexasCop · July 18, 2006, 05:07 PM

The point of having a weapon in that situation is to be able to use it. If you are presenting the weapon on target and the weapon is not cocked then you are just asking for trouble. I know of several range instructors who I have dealt with, both prior military and just plain LE, that will stick their index finger in the air when asked about how safe a glock is and say "This is my safety" and then they point at their temple and say "and THIS is my safety", meaning both control over their trigger finger as well as their mind and deciding when and when not to shoot are more important than just a weapon that may be in condition 1 or 2 or whichever you decide.

Don't know if I've answered any of your questions or not yet, but as far as I am concerned, if I used a SA revolver for home defense, I would be cocked with finger indexed when I was up on target. I would walk around with thumb on hammer with hammer down, but the minute I was presented with a target I would bring the weapon up while cocking the hammer.

Good luck with your debate with your buddy.

tipoc · July 18, 2006, 05:07 PM

I go with Majic on this.

tipoc

vpjack · July 20, 2006, 01:41 PM

With practice a single action is about as fast as a double action as witnessed by watching any good cowboy shooter. From draw establish a solid grip that you will not move and as you present the gun bring your off hand to grip and use the off thumb to cock the gun. Once the master grip is aquired that hand does not move and repeated cocking is done with the off thumb. Of course the key to any speed and not fumbleing is practice. How ingrained is it? When my wife, who has been shooting cowboy for a several years, went to her first IDPA match, when the timer sounded she pulled her Sig (which she's shot for 2 years) and tried to cock the hammer. Why? Because that was what she was use to doing when she was on the line and the timer sounded, just her trained reaction. She still shoots her SA better than her auto.

jack

popbang · July 21, 2006, 07:41 AM

I carry a single action revolver daily. I cock the hammer with my lfet hand as I extend to fire. If handling it one handed cocking is done when extending arm. I shoot a single action in our local IDPA matches from retention I can fire the first shot accurately and fast as anybody else.

seeker_two · July 21, 2006, 05:19 PM

Draw & raise gun to target.....cock hammer...keep finger off trigger until you're ready to fire.....

That's the way I handle all my SA's....revolvers AND autos....

Scorch · July 21, 2006, 05:26 PM

I always thought it was draw, use the cocking motion to lift the muzzle to line of fire, extend arm, fire. All with the right hand. Reaching across with the left hand works well for fanning the gun, but it is much faster to draw, cock, aim, and fire using the right hand. Try it. How else would you fire from horseback while holding the reins?

Bullrock · July 22, 2006, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Scorch, I always thought it was draw, use the cocking motion to lift the muzzle to line of fire, extend arm, fire. All with the right hand. Reaching across with the left hand works well for fanning the gun, but it is much faster to draw, cock, aim, and fire using the right hand. Try it. How else would you fire from horseback while holding the reins?

You have described the correct way to draw and shoot an SA. Anything else is personal preferrence and modification.

With a good horse you don't need to hold the reins. Just tie them and drop them over the saddle horn. The horse will keep chasing whatever you set him on and if you need to turn him, just use the inside pressure of your leg...

**44 AMP** · July 22, 2006, 02:56 PM

Cocking and firing the SA with one hand wasn't to let your other hand hold the reins, as previously stated, a good horse doesn't need the reins held every instant. Your non gun hand (usually the right) was expeced to be holding your saber!

It was, after all, originally intended for cavalry use!

NRAhab · July 24, 2006, 12:40 PM

That's what I need for home defense.

A good old fashioned cavalry saber.

July 17, 2006, 12:06 PM	#1
NRAhab Senior Member Join Date: August 20, 2005 Location: Bellevue, WA Posts: 683	Questions about Single-Action I know that there are probably one or two people out there that have a single action wheel gun for home defense, or even personal carry. So here's my question, then. When you draw, are you cocking the hammer immediately, or do you leave the hammer down? This is an extended discussion from a buddy who works a ranch. He advocates using the hammer in a similar fashion to pumping a shotgun; ie as an audible warning. Please don't reply with "get a 1911/glock/whatever".

July 17, 2006, 12:30 PM	#2
tjhands Senior Member Join Date: January 20, 2005 Posts: 1,718	I'm interested in hearing the responses to this. I've never heard of using a SA revolver for home defense. I think it's safe to say that it's not the best choice for the average shooter. Too much "mind work" at the crucial moment, if you're going to have to cock the hammer, aim, and pull trigger. The less you have to think about, mechanically speaking, the better. But I suppose one could argue that carrying a 1911 in a cocked-and-locked configuration is just as involved to activate, what with having to flick off the safety first. I'm sure if you practiced enough at home with a SA revolver in mock scenarios, you could become proficient enough with it to make it viable. But really, just get a Glock. __________________ "If the sole purpose of handguns is to kill people, then mine are all defective." - Uncle Ted Nugent

July 17, 2006, 01:34 PM	#5
beenthere Senior Member Join Date: November 16, 2004 Location: NE Indiana Posts: 460	Sa Today is one of those days avery month or so when I can't use my right hand because of an arthritis "flare". It may be here for a day or a week. With a SA I can shoot with my left hand while using the edge of my right hand to cock it. 1. My hands aren't always strong enough to shoot DA. 2 No Ambi safety on my auto. 3. Right hand useless today for jacking a slide. Days like this a SA is my everything gun, and to be consistent it is on it's way to being my always everything gun. Cocked with my finger off the trigger. __________________ The weak, and those unwilling to make the struggle, soon resign their liberties for the protection of powerful men or paid armies; they begin by being protected, they end by being subjected. Louis L'Amour

July 17, 2006, 02:32 PM	#8
mjrodney Senior Member Join Date: March 5, 2006 Location: SW Florida Posts: 435	My FWIW thoughts, as someone who owns both SA and DA revolvers, and who relies on a wheelgun for defensive purposes almost exclusively. If I were to rely on a SA for defensive purposes, I would have my thumb on the hammer, but that hammer would be down. If I were to cock that hammer, I would now have a weapon that is relatively easy to touch off. Less than 3 lbs of trigger pull on mine. Perhaps a hair (trigger) too easy. I hardly consider myself to be a Rambo and I can see me jumping from an involuntary reaction to something that might startle me. My senses would return within a second or so, but would that startled reaction cause me to place my finger on the trigger and squeeze it before I could recover? Maybe when it really wasn't necessary? I dunno. DA rules......if you practice. __________________ Proud supporter of the NRA

July 18, 2006, 05:25 AM	#11
Frenchy Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2000 Location: Mid-Missouri Posts: 719	I will have to agree with Bullrock here. It is a matter of familiarity and comfort zone. All things being equal, I would go with a double action revolver. However...If the single action is your thing, you can become just as safe and proficient with it. __________________ ...Steve Charter member/Plank owner of XD Talk. Com

July 17, 2006, 01:12 PM	#3
NRAhab Senior Member Join Date: August 20, 2005 Location: Bellevue, WA Posts: 683	I'm marginally curious as to why this was moved. While it is specific to revolver users, it concerns a tactical question. To rephrase "If using a single action wheelgun, should you cover a target with the hammer cocked or not?"

July 17, 2006, 01:33 PM	#4
revjen45 Junior member Join Date: May 7, 2006 Location: Everett, WA Posts: 626	Cocked with finger off the trigger. Cock the hammer when presenting. If you are covering the target you don't want 2 things you have to do to fire.

July 17, 2006, 01:37 PM	#6
Bullrock Senior Member Join Date: November 25, 2004 Posts: 2,686	Aside from using a SA revolver for HD, that's one hellova question. If you were pulling the SA revolver from a holster, the first contact should be with the thumb on the hammer. (Some old gunfighters recommend the thumb wrapped around the hammer to avoid slipage). Either way you would be covering your target fully cocked. If it's a bedside revolver, some folks would recommend covering your target, hammer down, just in case it happens to be unannounced company coming over for a late night beer. For myself, I'd cock that sucker everytime...

July 17, 2006, 02:04 PM	#7
timothy75 Senior Member Join Date: April 19, 2005 Location: Nevada Posts: 1,146	Treat the hammer as if it were a saftey on a 1911. With your thumb on it you can have it cocked before you finish your presentation.

July 17, 2006, 03:17 PM	#9
Ala Dan Member in memoriam Join Date: August 13, 1999 Location: In The HOT, Humid, and Mu Posts: 6,116	I agree, thumb on the hammer with the hammer being "at rest" (down). I don't advocate using a SA handgun for home D', as there are too many particulars to have too deal with, when confronting an adversary. Add too the fact, that the only SA revolver I own is a brand NIB Ruger 50th Anniversay Blackhawk .357 mag Flattop that has NEVER been fired. While I like this firearm very much, I have others that are better suited for home D'~! FootNote: currently, a 4" service model Springfield XD-.45 ACP with a Streamlight TLR-1 serves that purpose.

July 18, 2006, 09:20 AM	#12
NRAhab Senior Member Join Date: August 20, 2005 Location: Bellevue, WA Posts: 683	The point of this was more to settle a debate between a buddy and myself. A Ruger GP100 sleeps next to me.

July 18, 2006, 04:26 PM	#13
Majic Senior Member Join Date: May 24, 2004 Posts: 3,888	Hammer cocked coming up on target and finger off the trigger until ready to fire. It doesn't matter how light a trigger may be if the finger is not on it, but the revolver should be ready to fire. Use and learn the single action. Too many people actually try to treat them like a double action by having that finger on the trigger and thinking the revolver is easily cocked when pointed at the target. A single action is easily cocked when the revolver is in a verticle motion as in during the draw and recovering from recoil.

July 18, 2006, 05:07 PM	#14
TexasCop Senior Member Join Date: March 30, 2006 Posts: 396	The point of having a weapon in that situation is to be able to use it. If you are presenting the weapon on target and the weapon is not cocked then you are just asking for trouble. I know of several range instructors who I have dealt with, both prior military and just plain LE, that will stick their index finger in the air when asked about how safe a glock is and say "This is my safety" and then they point at their temple and say "and THIS is my safety", meaning both control over their trigger finger as well as their mind and deciding when and when not to shoot are more important than just a weapon that may be in condition 1 or 2 or whichever you decide. Don't know if I've answered any of your questions or not yet, but as far as I am concerned, if I used a SA revolver for home defense, I would be cocked with finger indexed when I was up on target. I would walk around with thumb on hammer with hammer down, but the minute I was presented with a target I would bring the weapon up while cocking the hammer. Good luck with your debate with your buddy.

July 18, 2006, 05:07 PM	#15
tipoc Senior Member Join Date: December 11, 2004 Location: Redwood City, Ca. Posts: 4,114	I go with Majic on this. tipoc

July 20, 2006, 01:41 PM	#16
vpjack Member Join Date: July 14, 2006 Posts: 43	With practice a single action is about as fast as a double action as witnessed by watching any good cowboy shooter. From draw establish a solid grip that you will not move and as you present the gun bring your off hand to grip and use the off thumb to cock the gun. Once the master grip is aquired that hand does not move and repeated cocking is done with the off thumb. Of course the key to any speed and not fumbleing is practice. How ingrained is it? When my wife, who has been shooting cowboy for a several years, went to her first IDPA match, when the timer sounded she pulled her Sig (which she's shot for 2 years) and tried to cock the hammer. Why? Because that was what she was use to doing when she was on the line and the timer sounded, just her trained reaction. She still shoots her SA better than her auto. jack

July 21, 2006, 07:41 AM	#17
popbang Senior Member Join Date: August 9, 2001 Location: out yonder Posts: 148	I carry a single action revolver daily. I cock the hammer with my lfet hand as I extend to fire. If handling it one handed cocking is done when extending arm. I shoot a single action in our local IDPA matches from retention I can fire the first shot accurately and fast as anybody else.

July 21, 2006, 05:19 PM	#18
seeker_two Senior Member Join Date: August 31, 2002 Location: Deep in the Heart of the Lone Star State (TX) Posts: 2,169	Draw & raise gun to target.....cock hammer...keep finger off trigger until you're ready to fire..... That's the way I handle all my SA's....revolvers AND autos.... __________________ Proud member of Gun Culture 2.0......

July 21, 2006, 05:26 PM	#19
Scorch Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2006 Location: Washington state Posts: 15,248	I always thought it was draw, use the cocking motion to lift the muzzle to line of fire, extend arm, fire. All with the right hand. Reaching across with the left hand works well for fanning the gun, but it is much faster to draw, cock, aim, and fire using the right hand. Try it. How else would you fire from horseback while holding the reins? __________________ Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs. But what do I know? Summit Arms Services

July 22, 2006, 02:56 PM	#21
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,844	One hand gun Cocking and firing the SA with one hand wasn't to let your other hand hold the reins, as previously stated, a good horse doesn't need the reins held every instant. Your non gun hand (usually the right) was expeced to be holding your saber! It was, after all, originally intended for cavalry use! __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

July 24, 2006, 12:40 PM	#22
NRAhab Senior Member Join Date: August 20, 2005 Location: Bellevue, WA Posts: 683	That's what I need for home defense. A good old fashioned cavalry saber.