New trend. SA striker fired guns with no manaul safety

polaris joe · June 18, 2017, 03:54 PM

Not sure if I approve of this. To me that becomes a dangerous situation when new shooters are packing guns with such light creep free triggers with no manual safety

IMightBeWrong · June 18, 2017, 04:03 PM

The only light and relatively creep free trigger I can think of is the Soviet TT-33 Mil Surp. What pistols are you referring to, exactly?

polaris joe · June 18, 2017, 04:14 PM

The list of light SA trigger striker fired guns is a fairly long one. You have to be aware of many of them

burrhead · June 18, 2017, 04:19 PM

This "new trend" is about 35 years old. Glocks were adopted by Austrian military and police forces in 1982. No light and creep free trigger on a Glock but the basic idea is the same; keep the booger hook off the noise switch.

jmr40 · June 18, 2017, 04:33 PM

The only SA striker fired gun with no manual safety that I'm aware of is the Springfield XD. Glock, S&W, and all others that I'm aware of are DOA.

Pops1085 · June 18, 2017, 04:42 PM

The SA XD's have that grip safety on them.

I wouldn't say it's a new trend, but there is a much larger surge striker fired guns lately.

I will admit, I do feel a little bit uneasy sometimes with some of my striker guns, and feel a little more comfortable with double/single action triggers, but that is more of a preference thing, not a condemnation of people who do carry them. I just tend to be clumsy sometimes, and take steps to protect myself from... myself haha.

DaleA · June 18, 2017, 04:48 PM

Quote:

This "new trend" is about 35 years old.

Not to discourage you polaris joe (and really, welcome to the forum) but as the above quote says this is hardly a new trend.

What pushes me into 'shrug, it's okay not to have a manual safety' camp is the huge number of law enforcement agencies that have taken to these guns.

There are reports of 'Glock Leg' but if there was anything like even a 1% chance of this happening our law enforcement squad rooms would be running red with blood. While I'm not a Glock fanboy I have drunk the Kool-Aid as far as the Glocks not needing a manual safety lever on them. As always, this is just an opinion and worth what you paid for it.

sigarms228 · June 18, 2017, 04:49 PM

Be careful what you wish for. There are many politicians that would love to make a 12LB trigger mandatory like in MA.

I have a Walther PPQ that I love and CCW it at times with no issue. But I use an all kydex holster that also completely protects the trigger guard and I take my time holstering.

polaris joe · June 18, 2017, 04:50 PM

No matter what the factory may claim the S&W M&P is SA. The H&K VP9 is SA. The Ruger American is SA. Looked at a new Remington recently. It is SA. CZ has a new SA striker fired pistol out.

polaris joe · June 18, 2017, 04:52 PM

Also the glock is not a SA gun.

sigarms228 · June 18, 2017, 04:52 PM

So what do you propose? Banning them? Even if manually operated safety is required many would simply not use it.

TunnelRat · June 18, 2017, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Not sure if I approve of this.

The reality is it doesn't need your approval.

The majority of NDs of which I've read involve people pressing triggers on what are assumed to be unloaded pistols. As someone that has had a ND with a DA/SA pistol that had a manual safety and a magazine disconnect I remain unconvinced that in those situations the trigger itself, or even a manual safety, will prevent a ND. Yes we can come up with other situations that aren't those, but at that point the user becomes the biggest factor.

As others have pointed out, striker fired pistols sans safeties are hardly new and if anything they're more popular than ever (even if you don't personally like them I think the sales figures would back me up on that). I think we're going to be just as safe as we've been for decades.

sigarms228 · June 18, 2017, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Also the glock is not a SA gun

.

Still does not prevent people from shooting themselves while holstering if careless and getting a "Glock leg"

polaris joe · June 18, 2017, 04:55 PM

This is not a old trend. Glocks are not SA

TunnelRat · June 18, 2017, 04:56 PM

Quote:

No matter what the factory may claim the S&W M&P is SA. The H&K VP9 is SA. The Ruger American is SA. Looked at a new Remington recently. It is SA. CZ has a new SA striker fired pistol out.

And the weights and trigger travel lengths on those pistols are not radically different than a Glock, which seems to be okay to you. All of these pistols have drop safeties so what does the amount of pre-cock of the striker mechanism really matter if the resulting trigger pulls are not radically different?

polaris joe · June 18, 2017, 04:58 PM

Not wanting to ban anything. I was pointing out that recently there are several SA pistons out there with very light triggers and no manual safety.

polaris joe · June 18, 2017, 05:00 PM

And these pistols have radically different triggers than Glocks. Much lighter and shorter trigger pulls

TunnelRat · June 18, 2017, 05:02 PM

Quote:

And these pistols have radically different triggers than Glocks. Much lighter and shorter trigger pulls

They really don't. Some have shorter travel, some have slightly lighter pulls. But it frankly isn't as dramatic as you're claiming. As someone that has owned both Glocks and M&Ps, all of the M&Ps I owned had pulls noticeably stiffer than my Glocks in terms of weight.

polaris joe · June 18, 2017, 05:04 PM

You need to check out the triggers on the H&K and some of the others. They are like the trigger on a good 1911

sigarms228 · June 18, 2017, 05:15 PM

Quote:

They really don't. Some have shorter travel, some have slightly lighter pulls. But it frankly isn't as dramatic as you're claiming. As someone that has owned both Glocks and M&Ps, all of the M&Ps I owned had pulls significantly stiffer than my Glocks in terms of weight.

I agree. My PPQ has significantly longer take up than my Glock 19. While a lot complain about that with the PPQ I prefer it for CCW reasons.

If someone jerked a trigger on a pistol due to a startled response I seriously doubt the trigger weight between a Glock 19 and something with a 1LB lighter trigger will make any difference.

TunnelRat · June 18, 2017, 05:17 PM

I don't need to check one out. I've owned one. The trigger pull is 0.6 lb. lighter than my Glock. That isn't significant to me. The travel is less, but again it's not dramatic IMO. If it is dramatic in your opinion you're welcome to that opinion.

bedbugbilly · June 18, 2017, 05:28 PM

The safety is the operator and common sense to keep the finger off the trigger until ready to fire - which is one of the first things any shooter should know whether it be pistol, rifle or shotgun. Common sense dictates that it is wise to carry in a holster which covers the entire trigger area so that it can't be accidentally "snagged".

I'm guessing that you are advocating that pistols should all have safeties and they should be "on" until you are ready to shoot? And I'm not trying to be difficult or cantankerous.

I have been shooting for over 50 years - revolver and semi-auto. I CCW both revolvers and semi-autos depending on where I'm going. I once had a 1911A-1 Colt and I trained myself to "sweep" the safety but that was on the 1911 platform. I no longer will carry a semi-auto for SD purposes with the safety on - in a SD situation, I want my side arm to have one in the tube and be ready to fire if necessary without worrying about getting flustered and not being able to fire due to forgetting to sweep the safety off.

I have had some very good training throughout the years as have many or most on here. But even the best training will not prepare you for the stress you will experience if you get in to a SD situation - and yes, I do know what it is like to be there and be shot at.

So, that is why you train until it is a natural instinct to keep that @#$# finger off the trigger until you are ready to pull it. I would have no issues in carrying what you describe your concerns are about. But, if it bothers you, then you need to make the decision as to what you are comfortable with - and then go with that platform.

Not trying to start an argument - just agreeing to disagree in regards to what you view as a problem or disagree with. And, whether a "new" shooter or an "experienced" shooter - until a person is completely familiar with the weapon that they are carrying and have some extensive range time with it to "learn" the handgun - they shouldn't be carrying it.

Jim Watson · June 18, 2017, 05:32 PM

There have been some people unwilling to carry a PPQ because of its light trigger.

But you don't get to approve their choice, joe.

sigarms228 · June 18, 2017, 05:41 PM

There are a lot of shooters that would never carry a Glock either because they want a safety or a pistol with a long and heavy DA first trigger pull or even for every pull.

5whiskey · June 18, 2017, 05:54 PM

Lots of misconception. Honestly calling a lot of striker pistols SA is a fallacy. There are a few that are SA, however they don't have super light,zero take-up, 1911 like triggers either. No modern main stream pistol, IMO, lacks any in mechanical safety features. Especially as litigious as modern America has become. If there is a safety design flaw, we will hear of it quickly enough.

June 18, 2017, 03:54 PM	#1
polaris joe Member Join Date: April 17, 2016 Posts: 61	New trend. SA striker fired guns with no manaul safety Not sure if I approve of this. To me that becomes a dangerous situation when new shooters are packing guns with such light creep free triggers with no manual safety

June 18, 2017, 04:03 PM	#2
IMightBeWrong Senior Member Join Date: March 22, 2009 Posts: 814	The only light and relatively creep free trigger I can think of is the Soviet TT-33 Mil Surp. What pistols are you referring to, exactly? __________________ "Intelligence is nothing more than discussing things with others. Limitless wisdom comes of this." - 山本常朝

June 18, 2017, 04:19 PM	#4
burrhead Senior Member Join Date: July 6, 1999 Location: Chihuahuan desert, Texas Posts: 1,148	This "new trend" is about 35 years old. Glocks were adopted by Austrian military and police forces in 1982. No light and creep free trigger on a Glock but the basic idea is the same; keep the booger hook off the noise switch. __________________ Join the GOA, SAF and the TSRA I'm offended by people that are easily offended.

June 18, 2017, 04:33 PM	#5
jmr40 Senior Member Join Date: June 15, 2008 Location: Georgia Posts: 10,809	The only SA striker fired gun with no manual safety that I'm aware of is the Springfield XD. Glock, S&W, and all others that I'm aware of are DOA. __________________ "If you're still doing things the same way you were doing them 10 years ago, you're doing it wrong" Winston Churchill

June 18, 2017, 04:49 PM	#8
sigarms228 Senior Member Join Date: October 29, 2011 Posts: 1,768	Be careful what you wish for. There are many politicians that would love to make a 12LB trigger mandatory like in MA. I have a Walther PPQ that I love and CCW it at times with no issue. But I use an all kydex holster that also completely protects the trigger guard and I take my time holstering. __________________ “When the people find that they can vote themselves money that will herald the end of the republic.” ― Benjamin Franklin

June 18, 2017, 04:14 PM	#3
polaris joe Member Join Date: April 17, 2016 Posts: 61	The list of light SA trigger striker fired guns is a fairly long one. You have to be aware of many of them

June 18, 2017, 04:42 PM	#6
Pops1085 Senior Member Join Date: November 25, 2012 Posts: 369	The SA XD's have that grip safety on them. I wouldn't say it's a new trend, but there is a much larger surge striker fired guns lately. I will admit, I do feel a little bit uneasy sometimes with some of my striker guns, and feel a little more comfortable with double/single action triggers, but that is more of a preference thing, not a condemnation of people who do carry them. I just tend to be clumsy sometimes, and take steps to protect myself from... myself haha.

June 18, 2017, 04:50 PM	#9
polaris joe Member Join Date: April 17, 2016 Posts: 61	No matter what the factory may claim the S&W M&P is SA. The H&K VP9 is SA. The Ruger American is SA. Looked at a new Remington recently. It is SA. CZ has a new SA striker fired pistol out.

June 18, 2017, 04:52 PM	#10
polaris joe Member Join Date: April 17, 2016 Posts: 61	Also the glock is not a SA gun.

June 18, 2017, 04:55 PM	#14
polaris joe Member Join Date: April 17, 2016 Posts: 61	This is not a old trend. Glocks are not SA

June 18, 2017, 04:58 PM	#16
polaris joe Member Join Date: April 17, 2016 Posts: 61	Not wanting to ban anything. I was pointing out that recently there are several SA pistons out there with very light triggers and no manual safety.

June 18, 2017, 05:00 PM	#17
polaris joe Member Join Date: April 17, 2016 Posts: 61	And these pistols have radically different triggers than Glocks. Much lighter and shorter trigger pulls

June 18, 2017, 05:04 PM	#19
polaris joe Member Join Date: April 17, 2016 Posts: 61	You need to check out the triggers on the H&K and some of the others. They are like the trigger on a good 1911

June 18, 2017, 05:17 PM	#21
TunnelRat Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2011 Posts: 12,212	I don't need to check one out. I've owned one. The trigger pull is 0.6 lb. lighter than my Glock. That isn't significant to me. The travel is less, but again it's not dramatic IMO. If it is dramatic in your opinion you're welcome to that opinion. __________________ Know the status of your weapon Keep your muzzle oriented so that no one will be hurt if the firearm discharges Keep your finger off the trigger until you have an adequate sight picture Maintain situational awareness

June 18, 2017, 05:28 PM	#22
bedbugbilly Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 2009 Posts: 3,287	The safety is the operator and common sense to keep the finger off the trigger until ready to fire - which is one of the first things any shooter should know whether it be pistol, rifle or shotgun. Common sense dictates that it is wise to carry in a holster which covers the entire trigger area so that it can't be accidentally "snagged". I'm guessing that you are advocating that pistols should all have safeties and they should be "on" until you are ready to shoot? And I'm not trying to be difficult or cantankerous. I have been shooting for over 50 years - revolver and semi-auto. I CCW both revolvers and semi-autos depending on where I'm going. I once had a 1911A-1 Colt and I trained myself to "sweep" the safety but that was on the 1911 platform. I no longer will carry a semi-auto for SD purposes with the safety on - in a SD situation, I want my side arm to have one in the tube and be ready to fire if necessary without worrying about getting flustered and not being able to fire due to forgetting to sweep the safety off. I have had some very good training throughout the years as have many or most on here. But even the best training will not prepare you for the stress you will experience if you get in to a SD situation - and yes, I do know what it is like to be there and be shot at. So, that is why you train until it is a natural instinct to keep that @#$# finger off the trigger until you are ready to pull it. I would have no issues in carrying what you describe your concerns are about. But, if it bothers you, then you need to make the decision as to what you are comfortable with - and then go with that platform. Not trying to start an argument - just agreeing to disagree in regards to what you view as a problem or disagree with. And, whether a "new" shooter or an "experienced" shooter - until a person is completely familiar with the weapon that they are carrying and have some extensive range time with it to "learn" the handgun - they shouldn't be carrying it. __________________ If a pair of '51 Navies were good enough for Billy Hickok, then a single Navy on my right hip is good enough for me . . . besides . . . I'm probably only half as good as he was anyways. Hiram's Rangers Badge #63

June 18, 2017, 05:32 PM	#23
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,543	There have been some people unwilling to carry a PPQ because of its light trigger. But you don't get to approve their choice, joe.

June 18, 2017, 05:41 PM	#24
sigarms228 Senior Member Join Date: October 29, 2011 Posts: 1,768	There are a lot of shooters that would never carry a Glock either because they want a safety or a pistol with a long and heavy DA first trigger pull or even for every pull. __________________ “When the people find that they can vote themselves money that will herald the end of the republic.” ― Benjamin Franklin

June 18, 2017, 05:54 PM	#25
5whiskey Senior Member Join Date: October 23, 2005 Location: US Posts: 3,657	Lots of misconception. Honestly calling a lot of striker pistols SA is a fallacy. There are a few that are SA, however they don't have super light,zero take-up, 1911 like triggers either. No modern main stream pistol, IMO, lacks any in mechanical safety features. Especially as litigious as modern America has become. If there is a safety design flaw, we will hear of it quickly enough.