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Old November 10, 2015, 10:39 AM   #1
Dennis6474
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unknown gun

I have what appears to be .32 target pistol. There is no manufacturer on the gun anywhere. There is a number "1" stamped on every part. The barrel, trigger guard etc. There are two stamping of what might be a shield on top of the barrel and receiver. The trigger is very light is what leads me to think it is a target gun.

I have had many guesses from gun maker's toy to prototype.

I know the pictures may not allow identification but let me know and I will try for some more or point me in a direction.
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Old November 10, 2015, 10:52 AM   #2
Jim Watson
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These turn up every once in a while.
It is a European target pistol. Action is somewhat like the Stevens.
Caliber is probably 6mm rimfire. It would probably shoot a .22 CB cap ok but I would not push it with full power .22s.

The 1911 ALFA (Adolph Frank, Hamburg, Germany) catalog shows the type for 42 Marks. This was a good deal of money at the time.
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Old November 10, 2015, 10:59 AM   #3
Mike Irwin
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Most likely a parlor gun.

That used to be a thing -- shooting in the house into a dedicated backstop you set up.

Very genteel.
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Old November 10, 2015, 12:05 PM   #4
Dennis6474
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I think that it is center fire. the hammer has the firing pin and it looks to hit in the center of the barrel.
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Old November 10, 2015, 12:05 PM   #5
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Not a parlor gun, it is a European type single shot target firearm of a type that was popular in the first half of the 20th century.. Somewhere on that gun are proof marks denoting the country of origin. The .32 S&W was a popular target round both here and in Europe.
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Old November 10, 2015, 01:33 PM   #6
Mike Irwin
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"Not a parlor gun..."

Maybe it was for someone who had a BIG parlor.

I assumed that it was going to be rimfire, that that was a pretty common form for a rimfire.

But, with the information that it's likely a centerfire, yeah. Target pistol.
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Old November 10, 2015, 01:50 PM   #7
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Try for better pictures of the "shield", also check underneath the barrel for more proof marks
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Old November 10, 2015, 02:49 PM   #8
Dennis6474
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Going to try to draw a picture of shield. It is not clear enough or large enough for a photo with my equipment.

Do these have any value at all?
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Old November 10, 2015, 03:24 PM   #9
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Value depends on the maker, condition, and caliber. An oddball European rimfire caliber may not be as desireable as an old American centerfire caliber.
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Old November 10, 2015, 08:39 PM   #10
James K
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The firing pin appears to be in the standing breech; the screw on the top likely holds it in.

The number 1 could mean a prototype or experimental, but more than likely is a batch number. In most small European factories, guns were made in "batches" of 100 or so; they were hand fitted and assembled, then taken apart, the parts numbered (e.g., 1-100), hardened, finished, and re-assembled. The numbers were used to make sure the fitted parts were re-assembled into the same gun. So there would have been many number 1's, an equal number of 2's and so on as long as production continued.

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Old November 10, 2015, 09:24 PM   #11
Jim Watson
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If bigger than .22/6mm it might be .32 S&W, .32 S&W Long or it might be .320 or .320 Long, European versions (ancestors?) of .32 Colt Short and Long.
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Old November 11, 2015, 09:31 AM   #12
Mike Irwin
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My guess is that it would be .320 Short/Long, but only a chamber cast and barrel slug would be able to determine for sure.
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Old November 11, 2015, 01:37 PM   #13
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"...Somewhere on that gun are proof marks...of what might be a shield..." Yep, the shield stamp is the proof mark. Shields abound in European proof marks.
http://www.nramuseum.com/media/940944/proofmarks.pdf
Slug the barrel for the actual diameter. Then, if you really want to, do a chamber cast using Cerrosafe(Brownell's).
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Old November 11, 2015, 01:42 PM   #14
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I always loved that link, where the NRA declares Belgium a part of Britain.
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Old November 11, 2015, 02:36 PM   #15
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The whole thing just LOOKS European!

Very nice lines on the pistol. I hope you'll press the course and see what it is chambered for. If it's nothing too obscure, it might be fun to shoot it once in a while.
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Old November 11, 2015, 05:19 PM   #16
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Thanks for posting the document on the proof marks. That information is useful.
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Old November 11, 2015, 06:55 PM   #17
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Mapsjanhere is right, but that list might antedate the NRA Museum or at least their web site. Whoever edited the document inadvertently included some Belgian proof marks under the British section. I once had a "discussion" with a gentleman who just couldn't accept a simple error and had concocted a convoluted "explanation" involving a secret British proof house in Belgium to prove arms for clandestine use in the British empire.

(The marks on the second page, with the proof house shown as Liege, are the Belgian ones; they belong in the Belgian section.)

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Old November 12, 2015, 05:56 AM   #18
Mike Irwin
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I'm not 100% sure, but I think that list originally came from either Blue Book of Gun Values or a Flayderman's guide.

You can see the sequential page numbers at the top of each page. Had NRA's museum staff put that together in house for publication on the web, it wouldn't have those markings.
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Old November 12, 2015, 11:49 AM   #19
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If you like good pictures, this German list has decent graphics
For those really into proofmarks, Wirnsberger's book is still a standard.
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Old November 12, 2015, 12:32 PM   #20
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I've used my Wirnsberger so much over the years that the binding has completely fallen apart.
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Old November 12, 2015, 02:11 PM   #21
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I wish the old Gun Digest proof mark articles had been combined into a book.
Baron Engelhardt wrote several in the 1950s and 1960s, Lee Kennett did a number in the 1970s and 80s. I still have many of the issues with the Kennett articles, I guess I could do some Xeroxing or scanning to bring them together.

One of the best internet sources is at
http://www.germanhuntingguns.com/index.asp#HOME
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