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Old May 25, 2022, 10:52 AM   #1
sncup
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Mag 20 shooting class gp100

Mag 20 shooting class gp100

Course requirements: reliable handgun 9mm or larger
500+ rounds shot in 2 days

I have a new 9mm for the class HK30L and was thinking about the recommendation of a 2nd gun.
I also have a Ruger GP100 MC 10MM / 40 I bought last year.
I really like the GP100 and since it uses moon clips I should be able to keep up with the class.

My question is am I crazy for thinking of using the GP100 as primary gun? 500+ rounds of 40 s&w out of a revolver in 2 days.
I’m in my 70’s with a bit of arthritis (medium size hand) so can I change the wood grips for rubber and get enough cushion to enjoy the course?

Ruger GP-100 Full-Size Rubber Grip with Snakeskin Backstrap & Frontstrap
https://www.altamontco.com/pistol-grips/ruger/gp100/

Is the revolver 40 cal vs SA 9mm just giving away too much to do OK in the class at my age?
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Old May 25, 2022, 01:30 PM   #2
BobCat45
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Only you can say.

I'm in my 70s too, and as much as I love my .357 mag revolvers, I download them for 'fun' shooting at the range and they do not hurt me. Not down to 38 Special level, but 125 grain JHPs at ~1100 ft/s are pleasant and use much less powder than real 357 mag loads.

If this is a class, not a match, you are probably not shooting for score and do not need to 'make power factor'; the bullets just need to hit where you aim them and either ring steel or punch through cardboard.

If you have enough moon clips or speedloaders, and a less=than-full-house load your GP-100 likes, the worst that happens is people tease you about living in the last Century. We can cope with that, no?

If there is a recommendation for a second gun, can you take both the Ruger and the HK and enough ammo for both, and just see how it goes?

I admire your spirit and wish you well with the class.
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Old May 25, 2022, 01:35 PM   #3
TunnelRat
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Mag 20 shooting class gp100

I think there are a few questions here. First to me is keeping up with a class for drills that are likely based around the assumption of say 3 standard capacity magazines or so per student. You’re going to need a lot of moon clips on your person to have the same overall capacity as the other students on the firing line. I’ve seen a guy with a SIG P238 keep up with a class of people using duty sized pistols and he did well, though he had ~8 magazines on his person. You will likely be doing 2-3 times the number of reloads as others in the class. Moon clips, depending on the clips, aren’t always quick to reload, by that I mean inserting the cartridges in the clips themselves. Get an idea of how long that takes you, if it’s easy it’s not much different than reloading a magazine (though spares in the event a clip gets bent out of shape might be good).

As far as fatigue, I’ve done courses that have been ~800 rd in one day, not 500 in two days, but I am younger than yourself (even if I do have arthritis in one hand). We aren’t talking a J frame but a full framed revolver, so it shouldn’t be as punishing as it could be. You know better than us what the recoil for that feels like to you.

Now assuming from the name that this is a Massad Ayoob class, I don’t see Ayoob being against the use of a revolver outright. The simple answer there is email and ask. Instructors generally want you to succeed. Be honest about your physical condition and equipment and he’ll likely steer you correctly. The other point is you have the P30L as well. Bring it along in case you find the revolver to be too tiring. Finally, don’t be too worried about your performance relative to the rest of the class (absent safety and as part of that keeping up with the line). Use the equipment most meaningful for you if it’s an option. If the revolver is what you are most comfortable with don’t eschew it just because others won’t be using one.


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Old May 25, 2022, 03:45 PM   #4
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From what I am told, magazines are loaded/limited to 6 rounds and they want all mag’s in holders. So having 10 moon clips (60 rounds / but only belt holders for 4). I only have 2-double holders for the H&K mags so whats the difference?

I do have both de-mooning tools and a mooning tool
https://revolverguy.com/tk-custom-mo...on-clip-tools/

I’m thinking I will bring both guns? (now to get 500 rnds of both 40 & 9mm – ouch). This is NOT a competition, Hopefully this will be a learning experience I will enjoy
so can I change the wood grips for rubber and get enough cushion to enjoy the course?
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Old May 25, 2022, 03:50 PM   #5
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Mag 20 shooting class gp100

Quote:
Originally Posted by sncup View Post
Tunnelrat
From what I am told, magazines are loaded/limited to 6 rounds and they want all mag’s in holders. So having 10 moon clips (60 rounds / but only belt holders for 4). I only have 2-double holders for the H&K mags so whats the difference?

I do have both de-mooning tools and a mooning tool
https://revolverguy.com/tk-custom-mo...on-clip-tools/

I’m thinking I will bring both guns? (now to get 500 rnds of both 40 & 9mm – ouch). This is NOT a competition, Hopefully this will be a learning experience I will enjoy
so can I change the wood grips for rubber and get enough cushion to enjoy the course?

Interesting. To me that’s a rather artificial limitation to put on people with handguns that have larger capacities, but maybe it’s done to keep reloads common across students. On the courses I’ve taken that has not been the case absent drills specifically focused on practicing reloads, hence why I mentioned it being a potential limitation.

If you want the rubber grips I don’t see harm in buying them. I’m assuming you own and have shot that revolver with some regularity, and assuming you have then I would think you have some instinct for whether the recoil of the revolver in its current setup is problematic.


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Old May 26, 2022, 03:21 AM   #6
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Quote:
My question is am I crazy for thinking of using the GP100 as primary gun? 500+ rounds of 40 s&w out of a revolver in 2 days.
I’m in my 70’s with a bit of arthritis (medium size hand) so can I change the wood grips for rubber and get enough cushion to enjoy the course?
My first thought is that if you are like me, this course is going to be a significant expenditure of time, money and effort. There's no way I would guess about whether or not a gun was suitable for a lot of shooting and manipulation. I would take the candidate guns to the range and do a lot of shooting with them and then use that information to help make the decision.

My second thought is that if I were going to take two guns to a shooting course (having a backup is definitely an excellent idea) I would want them to be as close to identical as possible. I would hate to have to switch guns halfway through the course and have the switch heavily impact the gun manipulation process.

My third thought is that if I were going to take a self-defense shooting course, I would want to take the gun (or gun type) that I'm most likely to use in self-defense. To me, it seems like a bad idea to spend a bunch of time and money training/learning with a gun, only to come home, put it in the safe and then use a totally different type of gun for self-defense.

My fourth thought is that if I were concerned about the possibility that a gun would distract from the point of taking the course, I would stop being concerned about that possibility by just making another choice.
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Old May 26, 2022, 08:11 PM   #7
sncup
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Excellent points.
this course is a significant expenditure of time, money and effort
SOO right. If this were “just a shooting course” I would not be doing it. Because of the Ayoob slant on things I’m thinking this makes it worthwhile

If primers were available I could be having a lot more trigger time.

“seems like a bad idea to spend a bunch of time and money training/learning with a gun, only to come home, put it in the safe and then use a totally different type of gun for self-defense.”

Problem: my single stack 9mm is smaller / lighter. Carry much, shoot little. Same with my 5 shot snubby revolver (I carry one or the other depending on activities and what clothing is necessary.) Parka or cargo shorts, this is a 4 season state.
So doing 500 rounds in 2 days with either of my actual carry guns is not really an option. Thus the plan is to use a heavier duty stand in, and keep pain pills for arthritis handy

When they talk us through the course and what they want us to learn, that will likely decide which gun will be used. (I’m not sure I can actually be comfortable with 500 rnds from the GP100, the grip question)
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Old May 26, 2022, 11:59 PM   #8
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Quote:
Problem: my single stack 9mm is smaller / lighter. Carry much, shoot little. Same with my 5 shot snubby revolver (I carry one or the other depending on activities and what clothing is necessary.) Parka or cargo shorts, this is a 4 season state.
So doing 500 rounds in 2 days with either of my actual carry guns is not really an option. Thus the plan is to use a heavier duty stand in, and keep pain pills for arthritis handy
In that case, I would pick something that operates as much like your preferred carry gun as possible but that is maybe a bit easier on you to shoot.
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Old May 28, 2022, 07:23 AM   #9
Jim Watson
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Quote:
So having 10 moon clips
Get more clips. A hundred would not be too many. You could have enough ammo clipped up for the class and plenty in reserve as they get stepped on or lost.

When I was shooting revolvers a lot, I had enough clips to get me through a match.
I had enough speed loaders for two or three match stages and one of those PPC loading trays to refill them quickly.

I took a single stack auto, Colt 1991a1 10x9mm, to a class. Everybody else but one had higher capacity magazines... but I had more magazines.

If everybody is limited to six in the gun, you should not be at a disadvantage.
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Old May 28, 2022, 09:22 PM   #10
sncup
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Wow, a hundred moon clips? You must be buying cheaper moon's than I am,
100 clips would be about $800 + shipping handling etc.

https://tkcustom.com/collections/rug...er-gp-40sw-050

but you are right that I should buy more clips. I'm thinking if I have 20 clips
20*6=120 rounds. that should just about get me through a 1/2 day of class & more that enough for any IDPA event I am aware of.

I do like the GP100 MC (only had it a short time) and its ability to "stage" the trigger in double action. I'm ordering a new grip (alamont compact) to help with recoil tolerance.
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Old May 29, 2022, 10:03 AM   #11
Jim Watson
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Sorry, I forgot that odd size clips cost $8 each.
My only clip gun is a .45 and Ranch Products clips were 50¢ when I was setting up.

I was going to recommend a $90 BMT tool for fast clip loading but they are gun and caliber specific and I do not see your Ruger 10mm in their catalog.

Last edited by Jim Watson; May 29, 2022 at 10:20 AM.
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Old May 29, 2022, 04:14 PM   #12
TunnelRat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sncup View Post
I do like the GP100 MC (only had it a short time) and its ability to "stage" the trigger in double action. I'm ordering a new grip (alamont compact) to help with recoil tolerance.
The recoil seems to be a big concern of yours. What’s the highest number of rounds you have shot through the revolver in a single session?


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Old May 29, 2022, 10:44 PM   #13
sncup
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T R
New gun, primers basically unobtainable, I’ve shot the GP100 3 times, likely no more than 48 rounds per session. The match champion wood grips seem OK for the sessions I had with 40 cal, but only 2 cylinders of 10mm and I was done-ouch. Thus asking anyone about their experience with Altamont grips either full size or compact.
https://www.altamontco.com/pistol-grips/ruger/gp100/

30+ years ago I was shooting bowling pins with a 44 mag and enjoying it. Age changes things.

With a user name of TunnelRat, I’m hoping you made it home with all pieces attached. Memorial day (tommorow) has meaning for those of us who put on a uniform.
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Old May 29, 2022, 11:39 PM   #14
TunnelRat
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Mag 20 shooting class gp100

I haven’t used those specific grips myself. I have used Hogue rubber grips on my S&W Model 19 and they do make a difference. As long as you’re not doing full house 10mm I would think you’ll be okay (since you reload and it’s a revolver you can make your load relatively light as you don’t have to worry about cycling a slide). I know 500 rd sounds like a lot and I’m sympathetic to your arthritis, but keep in mind it is two days and by the sounds of it full hours on each day. That pacing will hopefully mitigate any impact on your hands. The HK P30 you mention is a pistol I have owned and is fairly soft shooting imo. If you get the grips I’d test them for a few cylinders to see if they make a difference. If they don’t seem to help then maybe the P30 is a safer choice.


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Old May 30, 2022, 01:58 PM   #15
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Quote:
OK for the sessions I had with 40 cal, but only 2 cylinders of 10mm and I was done-ouch. Thus asking anyone about their experience with Altamont grips either full size or compact.
When you get the new grips on it, you definitely need to take it to the range and burn a decent number of rounds of the kind of ammo you plan to use.

I'm skeptical that a grip change will get you from "12 rounds ouch/done" to 500 rounds in 2 days no problem.
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Old May 30, 2022, 01:59 PM   #16
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I got the impression the OP is planning to use 40SW for the class, not the 10mm that seemed to cause concerns after 2 cylinders.


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Old May 30, 2022, 02:01 PM   #17
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Ah, yes, that is what he said.
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Old May 30, 2022, 02:03 PM   #18
TunnelRat
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Still though I agree, don’t just assume the grips are going to make a huge difference. You need to test it for yourself, especially if you’re relying on it making that needed difference.


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Old May 30, 2022, 07:20 PM   #19
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Syncup, I would respectfully suggest you bring both handguns and sufficient ammo for each.

The problem with moon-clip revolvers is that they take distinctly longer to strip out the empties and refill with live ammo, than it takes to put rimmed cartridges into a conventional speedloader or to reload an auto pistol's magazine. You don't want to be "that guy" who holds up the rest of the firing line during a class.

A GP100 with Ruger's factory grips and .40 S&W training ammo should not present a significant recoil problem unless you have a sensitive (read: arthritic or injured) hand.

Best of luck at the class. I hope you enjoy it and find it useful.
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Old May 30, 2022, 07:43 PM   #20
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Well there you go, from the man himself. That’s why I suggest people contact the instructor.


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Old May 30, 2022, 07:52 PM   #21
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Be wary of the man with only one gun . . .

Train like you fight. Take your carry gun. I guess I think about things differently. I tailor my wardrobe to my edc not my edc to my wardrobe.

Be wary of the man with only one gun. He probably knows how to use it.
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Old June 25, 2022, 10:13 PM   #22
sncup
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I enjoyed the class & accomplished what I wanted, I recommend it. Mag20 shooting seemed somewhat of a beginners + class but (all but one in my class were experienced shooters) I’m In my 70’s & needed help standing from kneeling (didn’t have my cane), but the old dog did learn some new tricks, & I shot well at the test phase.
My Ruger match champion wood grip caused pain in my arthritic hands so I could not use it for the class.
We had 2 relays and I had a folding table with ammo so reloading magazines was not a problem. I could have kept up with the course with moon clips, but because of arthritis used a H&K p30.

Course suggestions: I had a folding chair with side table + a folding table. My ammo / ears / mag loader were in a cooler to maintain a lower temp in the summer sunshine.
Hydrate hydrate hydrate in summer heat.
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Old June 25, 2022, 11:49 PM   #23
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Glad it worked out well for you!
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Old June 26, 2022, 07:58 AM   #24
TunnelRat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sncup View Post
Post action
I enjoyed the class & accomplished what I wanted, I recommend it. Mag20 shooting seemed somewhat of a beginners + class but (all but one in my class were experienced shooters) I’m In my 70’s & needed help standing from kneeling (didn’t have my cane), but the old dog did learn some new tricks, & I shot well at the test phase.
My Ruger match champion wood grip caused pain in my arthritic hands so I could not use it for the class.
We had 2 relays and I had a folding table with ammo so reloading magazines was not a problem. I could have kept up with the course with moon clips, but because of arthritis used a H&K p30.

Course suggestions: I had a folding chair with side table + a folding table. My ammo / ears / mag loader were in a cooler to maintain a lower temp in the summer sunshine.
Hydrate hydrate hydrate in summer heat.

I say this in earnest, good on you. It’s “easy” to take a course when age and mobility aren’t issues. I have a lot of respect for those that get out there knowing their limitations and are still willing to work within them.


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Old June 26, 2022, 03:42 PM   #25
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Excellent!

You are entirely, absolutely correct about hydration. Staying hydrated is crucial - not only to performing well, but to staying on your feet/conscious and out of physical danger.

Years ago one of my colleagues who rides a bicycle in competition heard me complaining about getting home from a match and being puke-sick with headache and zero energy. He suggested electrolyte capsules, recommended a brand, and they have helped me enormously every Texas Summer since. Read the labels, there are high potassium ones if you are limiting sodium, but do try them when shooting or working in the heat. They can literally save your life.

The outside of my shooting coat gets white crust - dried salt - even through the sweatshirt worn underneath.

Glad you enjoyed the experience and I can only echo TunnelRat - I admire your willingness to pursue your goal in spite of 'could-be' excuses for holding back.

Have fun!
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