Where Can I Find an Advanced Pistol Course

[camosteve243]

Does anyone know where I can find some firearm courses?

I've been trying to find some online but can't find crap!

Looking for a advanced pistol course near me, (Northeast Ohio)


Thanks,

Steve

[Brian Pfleuger]

Try this thread:
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=206311

[g.willikers]

Just do a web search for something like "Ohio firearms training", and quite a few show up.

[johnwilliamson062]

Terry Dunlap offers one of the most realistic classes offered in Ohio.
The experience may be worth the drive.
http://centralohiocoonhuntersassocia...CEALCARRY.html

[pax]

Terry Dunlap shot a student this week.

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=530677

pax

[ClydeFrog]

You may want to check Ohio pistolsmith & SWAT cop David Bowie.
He might also teach private courses or know of a decent program.
See www.bowietacticalconcepts.com .
As noted, its always best to take a 4hr workshop or 1 day class first then decide if the program is worth more $$$ or time.
I'd also look at a first rate school or instructor like Massad Ayoob Clint Smith or Larry Vickers then save up. SIG Sauer & Smith and Wesson do training too.

The NRA has good sources.

[g.willikers]

Massad Ayoob travels with his instruction classes.
You could check out his web site to see if any are being held in Ohio.

[Madcap_Magician]

Originally Posted by johnwilliamson062

Terry Dunlap offers one of the most realistic classes offered in Ohio.
The experience may be worth the drive.
http://centralohiocoonhuntersassocia...CEALCARRY.html

Poorly timed recommendation.

[ragwd]

http://commencefire.com/home/

Not know where you are in Ohio, but I took my ccw class with these people. Then followed up with a advanced pistol course. Loads of fun, 8 hour class. Shot over 300 hundred rounds that day. Taught us how to shoot from extremely close range, how to shoot from cover , how to move to cover ( funny looking heal toe walk , knees slighty bent to avoid bounce.) Shoot from sitting and laying on ground. Lots of very interesting stuff, As I said I had a very good time , but they didnt allow and shenanigans. Class of about 20, 4 instructors, all local area LE. Class fills up quickly.

[dawg23]

Looking for a advanced pistol course near me, (Northeast Ohio)

1. What do you consider to be an "advanced" course ??

2. What "basic" training have you completed ??

Most people who have never taken a two-day or three- day defensive handgun course will consider "Level 1" (basic) handgun classes, such as those taught by Clint Smith, Tom Givens, et al, to be "advanced."

[kln4]

I took my advanced course a couple of years ago taught by Ron Corrdell in Columbus. The class started a 6pm and ended at 11pm covering about every aspect of shooting at night with handguns and shotguns, lasers and flashlights. The one most important thing we learned was to turn off those laser and flashlights. They make perfect targets and even with a one or two second flash it takes a couple of seconds for your eyes to adjust.
One scenario had all of us standing 10 ft from the target, you could not see them, it was totally black, and we had to point and shoot two rounds at where we thought the target was. Everyone got at least one round in the target. Then he had us point the flash light with your off hand for about a second then fire two shots. Only two people got shots in the target.

[Frank Ettin]

Originally Posted by kln4

I took my advanced course a couple of years ago taught by Ron Corrdell in Columbus. The class started a 6pm and ended at 11pm covering about every aspect of shooting at night with handguns and shotguns, lasers and flashlights....

Is he still teaching? Where? I found no listing on Google for shooting classes by a Ron Corrdell.

Originally Posted by kln4

...The one most important thing we learned was to turn off those laser and flashlights....

That doesn't sound very good. When we've done night shooting at Gunsite, we learned how to effective use our flashlights to (1) identify the target; and (2) hit it.

Originally Posted by kln4

...One scenario had all of us standing 10 ft from the target, you could not see them, it was totally black, and we had to point and shoot two rounds at where we thought the target was. Everyone got at least one round in the target...

That doesn't sound like a great idea. First, one should never be shooting at a target he can't identify. Second, the idea is to hit the target.

[kln4]

"Is he still teaching? Where? I found no listing on Google for shooting classes by a Ron Corrdell."

Last I heard Ron's teaching private security classes, that was about a year ago. I think Ron and Bob Coffman, (both retired CPD officers) are getting into the private security training instead of CCW training. I guess it's more money.

"That doesn't sound very good. When we've done night shooting at Gunsite, we learned how to effective use our flashlights to (1) identify the target; and (2) hit it."

His objective wasn't not to use them but to use them sparingly. The longer you have that light on the more you become a target. It made sense to me anyway.

"That doesn't sound like a great idea. First, one should never be shooting at a target he can't identify. Second, the idea is to hit the target."

I think that was exactly what he was showing us not to do. With the flashlight in one hand and the gun in the other he had us light up the target for a couple of seconds at the same time acquire the target and fire two rounds at 10 ft. After he turned on the range lights everyone had hits in the target. Trying to manipulate a flashlight, a loaded gun, and acquire the target is not a simple task and requires skill and practice, it's not something a civilian does routinely. He told us the training academy want's their officers to keep it under 5 seconds.

[Frank Ettin]

Originally Posted by kln4

...I think that was exactly what he was showing us not to do. With the flashlight in one hand and the gun in the other he had us light up the target for a couple of seconds at the same time acquire the target and fire two rounds at 10 ft. After he turned on the range lights everyone had hits in the target. Trying to manipulate a flashlight, a loaded gun, and acquire the target is not a simple task and requires skill and practice, it's not something a civilian does routinely...

But it's a skill that's useful to have. Here's how I briefly discussed our night simulator exercises in the article I wrote on my last class at Gunsite:

...It was then time for my group’s turn for our first simulator exercises. There are two types at Gunsite -- indoor and outdoor.

The indoor simulator is what is commonly called a shoot house. It’s a ... well a house, or a facsimile thereof. There are rooms and doors and windows and furniture -- and there are bad guy targets and good guy targets. The student needs to move through the house in a manner that exposes himself to any threats as little as possible, identify any threats, shoot them, and not shoot any good guys. Doing a proper job requires paying attention to the way doors open and using angles to see as much as possible without showing more of yourself than necessary and paying attention to where threats may be hidden.

The outdoor simulator is, in effect, a gully. There are various branches off the central portion, and there are targets (metal reactive targets) in some of those branches. The student moves down the gully, using angles to expose himself to any hostiles as little as possible, identify threats and shoot them. A target must fall to score as a hit.

In each case, the student must manage his ammunition, doing tactical reloads as appropriate. The instructor stayed with the student and would critique the student’s performance at the end. And of course, we were absolutely required to be safe...

...We then had a discussion about flashlights and various ways to effectively use a flashlight with a gun. A properly set up lanyard on the flashlight is a big help.

The Gunsite perspective on a gun mounted light: they are good for shooting, but one still needs a flashlight for looking and seeing. Remember Rule Two of gun safety -- “never let the muzzle cover something you are not willing to destroy.” One needs to be able to illuminate something without pointing a gun at it....

...Doing the simulators in the dark is a very different experience. There’s the matter of managing one’s gun and flashlight together, especially during a reload; and that lanyard on the flashlight really helped. There’s also the matter of balancing seeing where you are going, avoiding obstacles, being able to see to identify, and hit, targets, and not overusing the light (which gives away your position)....

[kln4]

I went through the same type of simulation, 12 weeks of it through the FCSO. One simulator part was they put in a "booth" and armed you with a S&W MP, and yes it was a real 9mm, but wired to the simulator. we had to shoot the bad guys and not the good ones, and they were popping out of every where, more good guys than bad ones. I forget the time they gave us but it wasn't very long.
The other simulator had individuals go into a darkened two story house from a 911 call on a suicide attempt. It was a shoot/no shoot scenario. I had to approach the bathroom where the woman was and open the door. There she was in the bathtub no clothes on. The minute she got up I shot her. She had a knife she grabbed from a shelf and was going to stab me. The whole scene was designed to distract you by looking at the female and not what she was doing. Out of the 18 of us only three of us passed.

The other one was in a real house, called the training house. We used airguns that "splattered" on contact. There were 3 different scenarios with deputies acting as the "bad guys". I failed the last one by shooting the deputy 4 times because I couldn't get the stupid flashlight to work. Anyway it was definitely an education for me.

[Frank Ettin]

Good experience.

Okay, we've drift off topic with our war stories quite enough. Lets see if anyone has more something more to offer responsive to the OP's questions.

BTW, I would endorse Gunsite, but it's kind of far from Ohio. But the traveling trainers like Massad Ayoob and Louis Awerbuck would be worth looking into.

[johnwilliamson062]

I did do some training from a fellow in the Dayton area a while back. An OPOTA 20 hour training class. The training wasn't so bad, but we did somethings that were somewhat risky. The backstop was insufficient for a basic level class IMO and that was what had me the most anxious. We did some shooting from the ground laying on our backs shooting down range between our spread feet. It is a good position to use in certain cover and I have personally practiced it before, but I was sure someone was going to blow a toe off. Guy was decently fast and remained accurate. Wasn't bad at explaining things to the various students in a way each of us could understand. I think we went a little beyond the norm for a 20 hour class. Like most classes that are state required for those taking it, we didn't go very fast or efficiently. Most were just there to get certs. It was certainly way above the two NRA basic pistol classes I took, but I am not sure it or any of his other classes would be what you are looking for. He only has security qual courses listed on his site right now.

Claimed to have gained most of his experience running HVT extractions in Black Water during the early days of the war on terror when they were still getting paid a grand a day or more. I didn't check that story out, but he had enough skill, challenge coins, and patches I didn't doubt it outright either. His ego wasn't lacking.

The guy had some legal trouble related to his private security company. Excessive use of force and a shooting of a known gang member with active warrants where his employees were not on solid ground.

Ohioans for CCW thread about him:http://www.ohioccwforums.org/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=60331

He has said at one time that the owner of this company is a good instructor but someone to keep at a distance when it comes to working with him and being his friend

That bit stood out to me. I only spent 20 hours with the guy though.

The assault on a coworker came up at our class as someone he knew was in the small class. He said they had had an argument and a few minutes later he was leaving the office they were in. He had to pass her desk with very little room or something and something to the effect of she backed her chair up while he was passing hurriedly and they bumped. He was trying to squeeze behind her and she was changing positions so they were both off balance and both ended up on the floor. No intent or punches thrown or anything like that. They had just argued so she thought it was on purpose. His side of the story was something along those lines anyways.

I took my first CCW class from two retired CPD officers at Big Darby Creek Shooting Range. I can't remember the names and have long since lost the cert. They claimed to have been CPD SWAT, competitive shooters, now training CPD SWAT, etc. There can't be too many around who fit that bill. It wasn't bad, but they were cautious to the point of not pushing students at all. Three yards, no movement, etc. Maybe not a bad thing for a CCW class. They were also very strict and more or less tried to run the class as if we were in the military and not people paying money out of our own pockets. Maybe also good for a CCW class, but it turned me off.

[bikerbill]

Take a look at www.buckeyefirearms.org .. I think that's the biggest state organization. I'm a member even though I live in Texas, they have an excellent newsletter and I'm sure they could point you in the right direction ...

[Billy the Kidder]

+1 for Commence firearms if you are in the Cleveland area. Good crew of instructors. My wife and I have attended a number of their classes. Depends on how advanced you are speaking of.

[kln4]

I took my first CCW class from two retired CPD officers at Big Darby Creek Shooting Range. I can't remember the names and have long since lost the cert. They claimed to have been CPD SWAT, competitive shooters, now training CPD SWAT, etc. There can't be too many around who fit that bill. It wasn't bad, but they were cautious to the point of not pushing students at all. Three yards, no movement, etc. Maybe not a bad thing for a CCW class. They were also very strict and more or less tried to run the class as if we were in the military and not people paying money out of our own pockets. Maybe also good for a CCW class, but it turned me off.

The two instructors were Ron Cordell and Bob Coffman. Ron 30yrs CPD and as a police fire arms instructor at the academy. Bob, 12 yrs as SWAT sgt. And they do have a way they teach. Neither one is very forgiving when it comes to loaded guns. They are strict and I have watched as the escorted students out of the class. (mainly for not paying attention with a loaded gun in their hand) I don't blame them and I'd be just as strict as they are.

[johnwilliamson062]

No loaded firearm was involved in my class. The part that turned me off was during the classroom portion. No students were handling or in possession of firearms. All student owned firearms were in their vehicle at that point.

On the range, with loaded weapons and people of varying experience levels, things need to be kept tightly controlled. I guess one could argue establishing that control in a classroom sets the tone for the range. I have been in several other classes where a looser classroom setting did not result in a dangerous range.

[Pahoo]

For what it's worth and Massad Ayoob, is associated with this group. ...

http://midwesttraininggroup.net/

Be Safe !!!

[Jeff22]

Tactical Defense Institute

http://tdiohio.com/home_page/

There were many articles about them in Combat Handguns magazine in years past. I know several people who have trained there (years ago) and thought the training was pretty solid

[3.Shot.Group.]

I don't know if anyone has mentioned this, but some ranges also offer training courses.

There's one near me that offers everything from basic pistol to V.I.P. security training that includes motorcade operations, evasive driving, and a lot of other stuff.

[Wreck-n-Crew]

Haven't been there myself but , but want to check it out. Heard good things but nothing confirmed as to the experience and knowledge of the trainers.http://www.shootextreme.com/

They have training in advanced pistol, Defense carry and HD using Simunition http://www.shootextreme.com/howitworks/

Anyone familiar with GuntalkTV http://www.guntalk.tv/site.php and the FPD First person Defender videos, training using siminition https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...OGkeTde5OqGTT3 Might take an interest in using this form of training.

Shooter extreme training page: http://www.shootextreme.com/training/

Might be a bit of a drive for you though