380 Pocket Gun - which of these 3? - Page 4

bonefamily · March 15, 2013, 05:57 PM

I never had a problem with the two Kel Tecs I owned. The P-32 is a very much missed pistol that I regret trading away. I found the LCP locally recently and jumped on it. I am now in search of a TCP as I think it will make another nice carry piece.

ryanryan03 · March 17, 2013, 10:58 PM

Any more feedback on personal experience with the bodyguard?

Darker Loaf · March 18, 2013, 08:40 PM

I've rented and fired the Smith and Wesson Bodyguard at a local range that is cool enough to have a rack of pistols to rent. I've also rented and fired a Kahr PM 9 (about the same size and weight as the Smith, but in 9mm). At the very same range, I got to shoot somebody's LC9, too. I own and carry a Kahr K9 Elite, and had a Kahr CW9 (same form factor, but polymer). Also, I've put some rounds through Diamond Back 9mm, too [not recommended--saw too many reliability issues].

So, I have some experience in firing some of these mouse guns, at least enough to throw that limited experience into the fray of the interwebs.

So, I'll proceed to compare them. The Smith BG was snappy, as snappy as the Kahr PM 9 or the LC9. Tiny .380's will buck as bad as 9mm, often, because .380's are straight blow-back, where as most center fire handguns have a delayed blow-back that slows down the transfer of energy to your hand. The Smith BG had a poor trigger and printed way high and right for me (probably poor trigger control on my part combined with a poor trigger), but printed consistently so maybe it was the gun. The LC9 also had a bad trigger, but better than the BG in my opinion. I had less problems fighting the trigger, and though chambered in 9mm, the LC9 did not have as severe a recoil as the BG in my opinion. The LC9 printed better for me than the Smith, but that could be because the form factor is larger. For my $0.02, lasers are silly on any gun, but that's me. The Kahr PM9 shot the best out of all of these, but kicked as bad as the Smith (because of it's 9mm chambering). That is due to the superior double action trigger that Kahrs have.

If I were your buddy, I'd get a Kahr P380, like Kilibreaux said. They are really light at 10 oz, and are only 0.75" at the slide. I've handled them before in stores, and their trigger really compares to other Kahr products. Last time I shot my K9 Elite, fired three times and all three bullets were touching (at 15 feet). However, my K9 is an all steel frame brick that wore out a 5.11 Trainer belt in six months of daily carry. So, I, myself, am considering buying a P380. I got my CW9 (the budget version of the P9, which is the plastic version of the K9) for $350 new. If you shop around, you could probably get the budget version of the P380, the CW380, for around the same price (once prices return to normal). Get a Crossbreed, horse leather holster, IWB, and you'll be good to go. Oh yeah, and even though it's a mouse gun: GET A GOOD BELT. I'm going to go with Kydex insert full-leather "Looper" belt for my next one.

Also nice, if you want simple, the P380/CW380 have no safeties. That's about as trim as you can get. If you prefer a safety, get an LCP or an LC380. That's my not-so-humble opinion at any rate. Kahrs are pretty reliable, in my opinion. My K9 Elite is one of two fire arms that I own that have experienced zero failures, but that's with only about 800 or so rounds through it. However, I had some issues with my CW9. But I've seen no issues with my friends' T9 and CW9. I'm an unlucky dude, in general.

I'd be perfectly happy to ramble more about Kahrs if you prod me.

Cheapshooter · March 18, 2013, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Tiny .380's will buck as bad as 9mm, often, because .380's are straight blow-back, where as most center fire handguns have a delayed blow-back that slows down the transfer of energy to your hand.

The Kel Tec P3AT, Ruger LCP, and S&W Bodyguard are not straight blowback designs. They are locked-breach tilting barrel designs.

Quote:

. If you prefer a safety, get an LCP

Nor does the LCP have a mechanical safety. Just a long, fairly heavy trigger pull like a D/A revolver

Darker Loaf · March 18, 2013, 09:47 PM

My bad on the 380 blow back vs. barrel tilt? You sure? The BG is snappy! I suspected the Sig P238 wasn't straight blow back, but the whole lot of them? I swear the Kahr PM9 wasn't as bad. The LC9 not being as bad makes a lot sense, extra mass and all. I guess I should have said "some .308's are straight blow back."

I've never handled a LCP, just an LC9. I'm surprised to learn they have a safety. At least the Bodyguard has one.

Now I feel like an ass, making silly non-truth comments on tfl.

Cheapshooter · March 18, 2013, 09:58 PM

I have both and LCP, and a KAHR CM9, the lower cost version of the PM9.I really don't noticed a lot of diference in recoil. Maybe slightly less with the Ruger. I was shooting both just last week. Hornady Zombie Max in the Elsie (don't laugh, they were a couple bucks cheaper than Critical Defense), and some 9MM NATO in the KHAR.

Cheapshooter · March 18, 2013, 10:02 PM

If you noticed, the KAHR PM9 doesn't have a safety either.

Darker Loaf · March 18, 2013, 10:13 PM

HEH, well, dur. I know a PM 9 doesn't have a safety, but I was assuming that wasn't an option, since it's in 9mm. Also, I'm assuming his buddy wants a .380 because of the low weight to carry and thinness for concealment. Even a PM9/CW9 is 50% heavier than an LCP or a Kahr P380.

On LCP vs. CW9/PM9, I guess I just answered my own question. If both you and I experience the perceived recoil from a PM9/CW9 as less, that's sort of understandable since it has about 50% more energy AND 50% more mass (or more since that's just the unloaded weight and the loaded mags of a PM9 probably probably weight more than a LCP or Smith BG). But it still weird.

What's your take?

Cheapshooter · March 18, 2013, 10:23 PM

If added weight to reduce recoil, plus having good concealability are what the OP is looking for, the new Ruger LC380 could also be a good choice. Milder 380 caliber, but in the LC9 size.

bonefamily · March 19, 2013, 01:40 PM

Quote:

If added weight to reduce recoil, plus having good concealability are what the OP is looking for, the new Ruger LC380 could also be a good choice. Milder 380 caliber, but in the LC9 size.

How does the size of the LC380 compare to the Bersa Thunder 380? Could be a close comparison. However, the BT380 is a direct blow-back and I believe the LC380 is a locked breech? That could result in a different felt recoil.

Darker Loaf · March 19, 2013, 04:02 PM

The Bersa is the thickest of the bunch of pistols we are describing. The thinnest one is 1" (the Concealed Carry one: http://www.bersa.com/bersa-firearms/...led-carry.html). The rest are 1.3 inches, which is about the thickness of a 1911 or a full-sized handgun. They are also pretty heavy, but so is my Kahr K9 or even a Springfield XDs.

To me, the thickness of a CC handgun makes a big difference, since I'm trying to conceal mine inside the waistband. It may not make such a large difference to you.

But for me the added weight and thickness of the Bersa line puts it more in the 9mm Kahr-line, Walther PPS (also 9mm), Springfield XDs, or Ruger LC9 camp rather than the .380 close-to-10 oz camp.

mrcharlie3531 · March 19, 2013, 05:31 PM

I have a ruger lcp and love it. Yes, I want another one. I purchased my lcp in pre-owned condition. I had a minor issue with the magazine latch. Ruger fixed it for free. Excellent customer service with quick turn around time. Never had a malfunction with it.

SteveBonning · March 19, 2013, 09:14 PM

I'll add my $0.02 on the Bodyguard. After all my research I went with it. Better sights, reputation for reliability, fits my hand well, conceals easily, manageable recoil; the laser I just consider a bonus since all of these small pocket pistols are for 'up close and personal' encounters for the most part. I also like the safety--don't use it; so I train with it just like my Glock 36, using the long trigger pull as a safety. I've never regretted the Bodyguard 380 purchase.

thomas361965 · March 19, 2013, 09:26 PM

I recently bought a S&W Bodygaurd for my wife and it was very accurate out of the box. I went on YouTube to see how to disassemble and reassemble. The directions in the book were not good but it was simple on YouTube. It seems to be a good shooting gun so for.

biohazurd · March 20, 2013, 02:38 AM

Of those 3 i would say the lcp. Better fit and finish then the kt and unless you really prefer lasers i would say is better selection. I have shot all 3 on various occations.

March 15, 2013, 05:57 PM	#76
bonefamily Senior Member Join Date: October 28, 2012 Location: central Ohio Posts: 304	I never had a problem with the two Kel Tecs I owned. The P-32 is a very much missed pistol that I regret trading away. I found the LCP locally recently and jumped on it. I am now in search of a TCP as I think it will make another nice carry piece. __________________ Bryan

March 17, 2013, 10:58 PM	#77
ryanryan03 Member Join Date: January 11, 2013 Location: Katy, TX Posts: 53	Any more feedback on personal experience with the bodyguard? __________________ Maverick 88 / Mossberg 715T / Ruger LCR / Ruger LCP / Sig Mosquito / Sig P250C / Sears & Roebuck .22 / S&W 3 Screw .38 / Remington Woodsmaster "Always bear in mind that your own resolution to succeed is more important than any other one thing." - Abraham Lincoln

March 18, 2013, 09:47 PM	#80
Darker Loaf Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2012 Posts: 715	Re Cheapshooter My bad on the 380 blow back vs. barrel tilt? You sure? The BG is snappy! I suspected the Sig P238 wasn't straight blow back, but the whole lot of them? I swear the Kahr PM9 wasn't as bad. The LC9 not being as bad makes a lot sense, extra mass and all. I guess I should have said "some .308's are straight blow back." I've never handled a LCP, just an LC9. I'm surprised to learn they have a safety. At least the Bodyguard has one. Now I feel like an ass, making silly non-truth comments on tfl.

March 18, 2013, 09:58 PM	#81
Cheapshooter Senior Member Join Date: December 2, 2007 Location: Missouri Posts: 8,306	I have both and LCP, and a KAHR CM9, the lower cost version of the PM9.I really don't noticed a lot of diference in recoil. Maybe slightly less with the Ruger. I was shooting both just last week. Hornady Zombie Max in the Elsie (don't laugh, they were a couple bucks cheaper than Critical Defense), and some 9MM NATO in the KHAR. __________________ Cheapshooter's rules of gun ownership #1: NEVER SELL OR TRADE ANYTHING!

March 18, 2013, 10:02 PM	#82
Cheapshooter Senior Member Join Date: December 2, 2007 Location: Missouri Posts: 8,306	If you noticed, the KAHR PM9 doesn't have a safety either. __________________ Cheapshooter's rules of gun ownership #1: NEVER SELL OR TRADE ANYTHING!

March 18, 2013, 08:40 PM	#78
Darker Loaf Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2012 Posts: 715	I've rented and fired the Smith and Wesson Bodyguard at a local range that is cool enough to have a rack of pistols to rent. I've also rented and fired a Kahr PM 9 (about the same size and weight as the Smith, but in 9mm). At the very same range, I got to shoot somebody's LC9, too. I own and carry a Kahr K9 Elite, and had a Kahr CW9 (same form factor, but polymer). Also, I've put some rounds through Diamond Back 9mm, too [not recommended--saw too many reliability issues]. So, I have some experience in firing some of these mouse guns, at least enough to throw that limited experience into the fray of the interwebs. So, I'll proceed to compare them. The Smith BG was snappy, as snappy as the Kahr PM 9 or the LC9. Tiny .380's will buck as bad as 9mm, often, because .380's are straight blow-back, where as most center fire handguns have a delayed blow-back that slows down the transfer of energy to your hand. The Smith BG had a poor trigger and printed way high and right for me (probably poor trigger control on my part combined with a poor trigger), but printed consistently so maybe it was the gun. The LC9 also had a bad trigger, but better than the BG in my opinion. I had less problems fighting the trigger, and though chambered in 9mm, the LC9 did not have as severe a recoil as the BG in my opinion. The LC9 printed better for me than the Smith, but that could be because the form factor is larger. For my $0.02, lasers are silly on any gun, but that's me. The Kahr PM9 shot the best out of all of these, but kicked as bad as the Smith (because of it's 9mm chambering). That is due to the superior double action trigger that Kahrs have. If I were your buddy, I'd get a Kahr P380, like Kilibreaux said. They are really light at 10 oz, and are only 0.75" at the slide. I've handled them before in stores, and their trigger really compares to other Kahr products. Last time I shot my K9 Elite, fired three times and all three bullets were touching (at 15 feet). However, my K9 is an all steel frame brick that wore out a 5.11 Trainer belt in six months of daily carry. So, I, myself, am considering buying a P380. I got my CW9 (the budget version of the P9, which is the plastic version of the K9) for $350 new. If you shop around, you could probably get the budget version of the P380, the CW380, for around the same price (once prices return to normal). Get a Crossbreed, horse leather holster, IWB, and you'll be good to go. Oh yeah, and even though it's a mouse gun: GET A GOOD BELT. I'm going to go with Kydex insert full-leather "Looper" belt for my next one. Also nice, if you want simple, the P380/CW380 have no safeties. That's about as trim as you can get. If you prefer a safety, get an LCP or an LC380. That's my not-so-humble opinion at any rate. Kahrs are pretty reliable, in my opinion. My K9 Elite is one of two fire arms that I own that have experienced zero failures, but that's with only about 800 or so rounds through it. However, I had some issues with my CW9. But I've seen no issues with my friends' T9 and CW9. I'm an unlucky dude, in general. I'd be perfectly happy to ramble more about Kahrs if you prod me.

March 18, 2013, 10:13 PM	#83
Darker Loaf Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2012 Posts: 715	Re Cheapshooter HEH, well, dur. I know a PM 9 doesn't have a safety, but I was assuming that wasn't an option, since it's in 9mm. Also, I'm assuming his buddy wants a .380 because of the low weight to carry and thinness for concealment. Even a PM9/CW9 is 50% heavier than an LCP or a Kahr P380. On LCP vs. CW9/PM9, I guess I just answered my own question. If both you and I experience the perceived recoil from a PM9/CW9 as less, that's sort of understandable since it has about 50% more energy AND 50% more mass (or more since that's just the unloaded weight and the loaded mags of a PM9 probably probably weight more than a LCP or Smith BG). But it still weird. What's your take?

March 18, 2013, 10:23 PM	#84
Cheapshooter Senior Member Join Date: December 2, 2007 Location: Missouri Posts: 8,306	If added weight to reduce recoil, plus having good concealability are what the OP is looking for, the new Ruger LC380 could also be a good choice. Milder 380 caliber, but in the LC9 size. __________________ Cheapshooter's rules of gun ownership #1: NEVER SELL OR TRADE ANYTHING!

March 19, 2013, 04:02 PM	#86
Darker Loaf Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2012 Posts: 715	The Bersa is the thickest of the bunch of pistols we are describing. The thinnest one is 1" (the Concealed Carry one: http://www.bersa.com/bersa-firearms/...led-carry.html). The rest are 1.3 inches, which is about the thickness of a 1911 or a full-sized handgun. They are also pretty heavy, but so is my Kahr K9 or even a Springfield XDs. To me, the thickness of a CC handgun makes a big difference, since I'm trying to conceal mine inside the waistband. It may not make such a large difference to you. But for me the added weight and thickness of the Bersa line puts it more in the 9mm Kahr-line, Walther PPS (also 9mm), Springfield XDs, or Ruger LC9 camp rather than the .380 close-to-10 oz camp.

March 19, 2013, 05:31 PM	#87
mrcharlie3531 Senior Member Join Date: February 22, 2013 Posts: 112	I have a ruger lcp and love it. Yes, I want another one. I purchased my lcp in pre-owned condition. I had a minor issue with the magazine latch. Ruger fixed it for free. Excellent customer service with quick turn around time. Never had a malfunction with it.

March 19, 2013, 09:14 PM	#88
SteveBonning Senior Member Join Date: January 2, 2011 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 137	I'll add my $0.02 on the Bodyguard. After all my research I went with it. Better sights, reputation for reliability, fits my hand well, conceals easily, manageable recoil; the laser I just consider a bonus since all of these small pocket pistols are for 'up close and personal' encounters for the most part. I also like the safety--don't use it; so I train with it just like my Glock 36, using the long trigger pull as a safety. I've never regretted the Bodyguard 380 purchase. __________________ Steve Bonning, PA-C Licensed Collector of Curios & Relics Maryland Designated Collector

March 19, 2013, 09:26 PM	#89
thomas361965 Junior Member Join Date: March 12, 2013 Location: Alabaster, Alabama Posts: 4	380 pocket pistol I recently bought a S&W Bodygaurd for my wife and it was very accurate out of the box. I went on YouTube to see how to disassemble and reassemble. The directions in the book were not good but it was simple on YouTube. It seems to be a good shooting gun so for.

March 20, 2013, 02:38 AM	#90
biohazurd Senior Member Join Date: March 29, 2009 Posts: 340	Of those 3 i would say the lcp. Better fit and finish then the kt and unless you really prefer lasers i would say is better selection. I have shot all 3 on various occations.