Who makes a good bolt action .308 and can it be converted to shoot 7.62X51?

[Nero45]

The title says it all. If it can't be done its ok but just would like to know if it is possable. Thank you.

[44 AMP]

And 7.62x51mm, 7.62mm NATO, and .308 Winchester are the same cartridge. No "conversion" is necessary (or even possible). Are you sure that is what you really meant?

The case dimensions are the same. The difference is the loading. 7.62 Nato GI ammo is loaded to match the old WW II .30-06 loading, a 150gr @ 2750fps+/-40fps
Commercial .308 Winchester is loaded hotter, today running a 150gr @ 2900fps, approximate. Also commercial .308 brass tends to run thinner than GI brass, with greater case capacity.

Foreign made military ammo may be different from USGI, but I would expect any bolt gun to be able to handle it ok. Military ammo does not usually yield top grade accuracy, unless it is Match grade ammo.

[Jimro]

Any factory 308 will do you.

For a tactical/varmint rig check out Savage, Remington, Tikka, Winchester, FN, and CZ.

For a lightweight hunting rig check out Savage, Remington, Tikka, Winchester, CZ, Howa, and Ruger.

But any modern 308 bolt action will do.

Jimro

[JP Sarte]

Isn't there a headspace issue between 7.62 Nato and .308 Win???

I always thought a commercial .308 Win round could exceed the maximum rated pressure for the 7.62×51?? But not the other way around.

I am not sure I would call them the same.

JP

[Jimro]

No.

Jimro

[JP Sarte]

Jimro:

Are you saying "no" to calling them the same or "no" to the first two statements I made?

JP

[Nero45]

Ok I thought that the 7.62X51 and the 5.56 Nato were the same vs. their civilan counter parts (you can't shoot 5.56 in a .223 but the reverse is possable). Ok cool, what I'm looking for as a good, accurate .308, doesn't need to be lightweight, and won't cost me too much. I've haven't price checked but I'm thinking around $500.00. Thanks for the help so far.

[Jimro]

JP,

There is no headspace issue.

You are correct, commercial 308 is hotter than 7.62 Nato.


Jimro

[azredhawk44]

.308 is ideally headspaced around 1.631". When you start getting an old headspace, say... on a machine gun or a semiauto with a high volume of fire, that headspace elongates as the metal wears, erodes and stretches. You start seeing 1.634, 1.635, 1.636.

Shooting commercial .308 in an elongated chamber is not recommended because the case is thinner. Because the case is thinner, two things happen:
1. More powder gets in the case (potentially) resulting in higher pressure;
2. Because the factory case is intended for a 1.631 headspace but your tired, old chamber is headspacing at 1.635, the case actually has 0.004 to violently expand. The thin commercial .308 brass cannot contain this and ruptures, spilling the explosion into the chamber, which then also goes boom.

The 7.62x51 NATO brass is thicker, resulting in less case volume and less powder... hence, less pressure. It is also stronger because it is thicker. It can accomodate the long headspaced chambers in machine guns, sloppy FALs and the like.

Bolt gun in 7.62 NATO? Deliberately headspaced for that? Yuck.

Just get one in .308. You'll be able to buy and shoot any 7.62 NATO surplus you come across just fine. But you'll get a nice, tight chamber intended for commercial ammo. And, it'll just shoot better.

I was just fondling a Browning A-Bolt the other day that I was quite taken with. I was looking at a long action in 7mm Remington Magnum, but they have a short action for the .308 case and it's derivative cartridges as well.

It's more than $500 though... You'd be working hard to find an A-Bolt for around $750.

For $500 and a shooter that doesn't already know what he wants, in .308, I'd suggest hitting up gunshows and looking for:
1. A nice bolt action that catches your eye and comes to shoulder well, probably used to save cost.
or,
2. An Enfield Ishapore rifle. Indian military surplus, chambered in 7.62 NATO. Very good iron sights on it, 10 round box magazine, lightly used for the most part.

[sholling]

The three .308s that I would look at in your price range are the Savage 10FP, the Tikka T3 Lite, and if money is tight the Howa M1500.

The Savage 10FP is a heavy barreled rifle intended as a police sniper. Available with 20 and 24" heavy barrels they are superbly accurate and come with an adjustable trigger. The only down sides are weight and the cheap synthetic stocks could be a lot better. $552 from Buds Gun Shop.

The Tikka T3 Lite is more of a hunter than a target rifle but they are superbly accurate and come with adjustable triggers. They weigh a whole lot less than the Savage but will need more cooling down time due to the lighter barrel. $480 from Buds.

The Howa M1500 is a very nice budget rifle. Don't expect Savage or Tikka accuracy but they are darn good hunting rifles for the money. $399 from Buds.

Do plan on budgeting another $300-400 for a scope and rings (the Tikka includes rings).

[ISC]

You should be able to find a good used Reminton 700 or Savage bolt action for under $400 with a cheap scope if you hit the pawn shops AFTER HUNTING SEASON ENDS. Alot of guys will blame their poor hunting skills and/or marksmenship on their rifle and sell it after the season ends. Just before Christmas alot of guys look at their collection and try to make get some cash to pay for the crap they bought and shouldn't have, especially if they got a new rifle themselves as a gift. If you study a few models for the things to look for and then visit the shops regularly you can find good seals, but just before hunting season is the worst time to buy a used gun, and December and January is the best time to find a bargain.

[Jeff F]

Any .308 bolt action rifle can fire 7.62 NATO rounds, no problem.
The only time you can run into a problem is shooting .308 in a 7.62 semi auto that has a military chamber, military or NATO chambers are a little oversize, commercial .308 is a little hotter and the brass is thinner.

[vzenmn]

My Remington Mohawk 600 used to eat up Portugese 7.62 surplus like a fat chick in a bonbon factory back in the good old days when the stuff was 12 cents a round. The gun is still in good shape.

[phil mcwilliam]

Whilst I've used 7.62 military ammo in bolt action .308's without problems, I have encountered a problem when trying to use them in my Sako lever action 308. The problem is the bullet sits too high in the brass.You can chamber a round, fire & eject the spent case ,but, if you chamber a live round & then you want to eject the live round without firing - it jams, as the overall length is too long to be cycled. I don't know if this woud be a problem in other high velocity leverguns such as Savage, Browning, or the old Winchesters.

[WeedWacker]

savage 10FP, remington 700 SPS varmint, Reimngton SPS tactical 20" bull barrel, if you go 200 more the Rem 700 VTR is in your reach. We are talking brand new here too. Used could be different. These are between 500 and 600. You can get a 700 SPS varminter in .300 WSM off of www.budsgunshop.com. I'm looking at that right now.

[garryc]

back in the good old days when the stuff was 12 cents a round

Thanks alot vzenmn, thanks for pointing out that I'm old. I remember buying a case of 1000 LC match ammo for $85, of course that was around 1974-75. I remember the dealer had an FN-49 on the rack in 7x57 for like $110 bucks. He hgad that for a long time, no body wanted it. He also had German mausers for like $35 bucks, I remember the sign that said free 200rds ammo with purchase.

I'm old even at 48. I remember stuff like that clearly from so long ago, but not 5 minutes ago.

[vzenmn]

Garryc, I'm jealous of you being old enough to buy ammo that cheap. I was 12 years old when I was shooting all that port 7.62. My dad gave me 2 battle packs of the port when he gave my the Rem 600 for my birthday. And when I shot most of it up he would not let me buy more and told me I could buy all that I wanted when I turn 18. Then I turned 18 and it was all gone.

My dad is sitting on 2000 rounds of the portugese and he would sell me a single round of the stuff.

Same thing with all the 5 cent a round 8mm mauser and the 7 cent a round 7.62x39.

[MemphisJim]

I've shot 7.62mm NATO in my Win M-70 Featherweight ('54 vintage) without problems. Matter of fact, I'm looking for a new supply now.

[Kreyzhorse]

I have a custom made rifle with a .308 Herters U-9 (extremely accurate gun) action.

I also have a custom made 7.62 NATO rifle with a Herters U-9 (also extremely accurate) action. Both are fine shooters. But seriously, a good bolt action .308 and you can shoot all the cheaper 7.62 NATO rounds you want.

I'd suggest looking at a Savage 110. Extremely accurate albeit slightly ugly guns and they fall within your price point.

[Threefeathers]

This is 'Andrea' my Tactical Savage, McMillian A-5 stock inletted and fitted by Morrison Precision in Sierra Vista, Sightron 4-14 mildot, Harris bipod. I've never been on a range that this one isn't as accurate as any rifle in the same caliber present.
I use 7.62 Match M118 and M852 in it. I reload with Lapua brass.

[skinewmexico]

The 7.62x51 NATO brass is thicker, resulting in less case volume and less powder... hence, less pressure.

It was my understanding that a smaller case volume gave you more pressure, unless you deliberately downloaded the powder volume.

[Scorch]

7.62X51 operates at a max pressure of 58000 psi, and 308 Win operates at a max pressure of 60,000 psi, i.e. there is very little difference until you start shooting heavy bullets out of military-style rifles. For most uses, it is the same round.

As far as rifles go, the new TC Icon and the Weatherby Vanguard won the accuracy tests in the Field & Stream writeup, plus they both look pretty nice, so either one of those might be a good place to start if you are truly looking for accuracy.

[azredhawk44]

It was my understanding that a smaller case volume gave you more pressure, unless you deliberately downloaded the powder volume.

I'm not sure if I read it in one of my reloading manuals, or heard it from somebody more experienced than myself, but it is a very standard procedure to down-load your powder charge for a 7.62NATO case in comparison to a .308 Winchester case.

Common practice is to take away about 1.0 grains.

So, that gives you less powder inside of a smaller container (since the walls are thicker).

I should have emphasised that more directly, but I did indicate that less powder goes in the case as a result of the thicker walls.

I do wish that some of the reloading manuals would just put in an entry for 7.62x51 NATO and publish loads using LC and similar brass, focusing on bullets 145-175gr in weight.