The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Handguns: The Semi-automatic Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old November 28, 2023, 08:26 PM   #26
Drm50
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 10, 2014
Posts: 1,356
Far as I’m concerned there are only 2 handguns that are worth trusting your life to. The Colt 1911, pre series 70s- G.I. Issue and S&W K & N frame revolvers of the P&R era. Both these guns are expensive to make. That’s why I mentioned cut off periods for both. It’s also why even new Colts and S&Ws are going down the tubes because of cuts in manf
to cheapen them.
Who thought 35-40yr ago that Mossberg would take over shotgun sales and Savage near the top of BA rifle sales. These were the guns you bought if you couldn’t afford anything better. I believe that same thing is going to happen with handguns. Ruger is waiting in the wings to see who wins the race to the bottom. Then they will step in and take all.
I was at a show last weekend. I have a 50th anniversary of the S&W m29/presentation case-ect, a virgin NIB. A guy wanted it bad and was trying to trade me a Tisa with all kind of aftermarket crap on it for $1000 toward the m29. We have Royal King stores that runs that Turk junk for as low as $249.95 on special. He got mad when I told him I would allow him $200, if he had the box and thru in all the original stuff he replaced. Low end 1911s are junk. I’ve got 3 keepers, all Colts and I only shoot 230 ball and never have any trouble.
Drm50 is offline  
Old November 28, 2023, 08:56 PM   #27
Woolecox
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 11, 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 152
A man has to know his own limitations.

I respect that.
Woolecox is offline  
Old November 28, 2023, 10:03 PM   #28
44 AMP
Staff
 
Join Date: March 11, 2006
Location: Upper US
Posts: 28,508
Quote:
The fun thing to remember about John M. Browning's iconic 1911 is that he made an improved version called the Browning/FN HiPower P-35.
No, sorry, but he didn't. Browning designed and made a prototype, and perhaps 2 or 3 toolroom guns, and then passed away.

FN finished the design, with Belgian engineers reworking the design considerably, including among other changes a magazine disconnect requested by the French, who then never bought any...

FN said they kept Browning's name on the gun as a sign of respect, which I think, in reality was to use the Browning name for its sales appeal.

The P.35 Hi Power was not designed or made by JM Browning. He began the design and then died. FN turned that prototype into a significantly different pistol. Had Browning lived to finish work on the pistol I think it would be quite different.
__________________
All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.
44 AMP is online now  
Old November 29, 2023, 12:26 PM   #29
wild cat mccane
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 22, 2011
Posts: 3,530
It's the 2011 makes no sense for cost to me. Mags are on gen3 and still a problem in the most popular 2011 gun right now.

Sense. There is none if you mag is broken but you're selling 2K+ guns.
__________________
My wife is a pulmonologist (respiratory Dr) and epidemiologist. If you have any questions on COVID, please reach out to me in PM.
wild cat mccane is offline  
Old November 29, 2023, 02:22 PM   #30
44 AMP
Staff
 
Join Date: March 11, 2006
Location: Upper US
Posts: 28,508
having reached the age of majority back when the retail price of a brand new Colt Govt Model was about $150, I am more than a bit disinclined to purchase any handgun listing at $2000, let alone a 1911A1.

What I cannot fathom is people charging that kind of money, making a design that has been in use over a century and HAS ALL the bugs worked out, producing a pistol that does not work flawlessly with standard ammunition.

And, even more baffling to me is that despite the high price and the flaws, people still BUY THEM.

Then some gripe about the flaws, and what a POS this $2k gun is, to which I must respond, "then WHY did you buy it????
__________________
All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.
44 AMP is online now  
Old November 29, 2023, 02:29 PM   #31
tangolima
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 28, 2013
Posts: 3,676
They don't really hate 1911. They just want to whine. I met people who whine about the BMW they just bought. Picking the right model is very stressful task, to them.

-TL

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
tangolima is offline  
Old November 29, 2023, 05:03 PM   #32
wild cat mccane
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 22, 2011
Posts: 3,530
By threads on forums, the 92 and Sig P series with a lot more service hour use over a greater amount of time (I could be wrong)...all be no interest anymore.

The Sig STR trigger is probably the fastest resetting trigger and that's the "feature" to aspire to today.

Aren't we a finicky creature.
__________________
My wife is a pulmonologist (respiratory Dr) and epidemiologist. If you have any questions on COVID, please reach out to me in PM.
wild cat mccane is offline  
Old November 29, 2023, 06:06 PM   #33
jar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 8, 2001
Location: Deep South Texas
Posts: 1,618
Quote:
Originally Posted by wild cat mccane View Post
By threads on forums, the 92 and Sig P series with a lot more service hour use over a greater amount of time (I could be wrong)...all be no interest anymore.

The Sig STR trigger is probably the fastest resetting trigger and that's the "feature" to aspire to today.

Aren't we a finicky creature.
At the risk of pulling the thread further off topic, the fastest most amazing trigger reset of all the pistols I own and have shot has to currently be the Tisas Zigana "K". I swear that rest on it is simply a thought.

Attached Images
File Type: jpg left-side.jpg (224.4 KB, 595 views)
__________________
To be vintage it's gotta be older than me!
jar is offline  
Old November 29, 2023, 06:38 PM   #34
wild cat mccane
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 22, 2011
Posts: 3,530
I thought Walther had the best by a long shot.

When I picked up my P226 Elite with SRT, I can see I was way wrong. It's a thought too. Just think without feeling a release, reset. Crazy.

I don't like the look of the rest of the pistol, but that front slide profile very aesthetically pleasing. Forward serrations ruined the look of slides
__________________
My wife is a pulmonologist (respiratory Dr) and epidemiologist. If you have any questions on COVID, please reach out to me in PM.
wild cat mccane is offline  
Old November 29, 2023, 07:04 PM   #35
jar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 8, 2001
Location: Deep South Texas
Posts: 1,618
Quote:
Originally Posted by wild cat mccane View Post
I thought Walther had the best by a long shot.

When I picked up my P226 Elite with SRT, I can see I was way wrong. It's a thought too. Just think without feeling a release, reset. Crazy.

I don't like the look of the rest of the pistol, but that front slide profile very aesthetically pleasing. Forward serrations ruined the look of slides
The Zigana "F" & "K" models are about the same size as the Sig 226 and 220. A little wider but DA/SA and the safety is also a decocker. The reset is both audible and tactile but I swear the trigger itself can't move more than a hair width. And with an MSRP under $300.00 might be even less expensive than my Sig P series were all those decades ago.

It does feel German Sig P series though in hand and in function.
__________________
To be vintage it's gotta be older than me!
jar is offline  
Old November 29, 2023, 10:12 PM   #36
Ernest T Bass
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 13, 2006
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 138
Quote:
Cheap ones let me down. This time I'm thinking of a Colt Lightweight Commander.
I love my 1911's. I own three Colts and two Springfields. Maybe if I ever bought a cheap one, I would feel the same as you. But I started with Springfield and Colt, and my experience has been stellar.

I'm a revolver guy, but about a decade ago I became "1911 curious", and bought my first Springfield. That was the gateway drug that led to my 1911 addiction.

For what it's worth, I don't carry my 1911's because I'm kind of a small guy. They're just for range fun. Maybe if I carried one daily it might get to be a bit much, but then again maybe not. I really like them a lot!
Ernest T Bass is offline  
Old November 30, 2023, 04:38 PM   #37
Hanshi
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 23, 2017
Posts: 239
I love the 1911 and wish I had more of them. They fit my hand so well I shoot them rather easily. I do still have a few.
Colt super .38 modified.

Custom worked .45 acp.

My worked over Combat commander.

Kimber of Oregon .45 acp Ultra Carry.
__________________
Young guys should hang out with old guys; old guys know stuff.
Hanshi is offline  
Old November 30, 2023, 09:17 PM   #38
Mike Irwin
Staff
 
Join Date: April 13, 2000
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 41,359
"Far as I’m concerned there are only 2 handguns that are worth trusting your life to. The Colt 1911, pre series 70s- G.I. Issue and S&W K & N frame revolvers of the P&R era."

Well, I agree with half of that statement.
__________________
"The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza

Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.
Mike Irwin is offline  
Old November 30, 2023, 11:43 PM   #39
Metric
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 4, 2016
Posts: 334
I like 'em. I really like 'em.

But, they are big. And also heavy. To the extent that it's hard to actually have one with me under most circumstances. And I do like a gun that I can have with me.
Metric is offline  
Old December 1, 2023, 12:03 AM   #40
CleanDean
Member
 
Join Date: March 18, 2012
Location: Penna◇VIGILANT CURMUDGEON
Posts: 79
There is nothing wrong with a 1911 in “ God’s Calliber”
But as I think about combat .45 pistols …
There is everything right about a Sig P220 & also the P227
__________________
FNH Scar 17 s --Black ; cause it goes so well with my formal wear, for those special occasions. Customized Mini 14 ,& ATI stock and a 3.5 lb.-- Pittsburgh trigger. / SIG P227 / Colt Python 8 in.Nickel / Colt Gold Cup N.M. ; Voere * KDF in .270 ; N. frame S&W revolvers; and TC Contender in 41 Magnum .
CleanDean is offline  
Old December 1, 2023, 09:30 AM   #41
Mike Irwin
Staff
 
Join Date: April 13, 2000
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 41,359
If I'm going to go rocking into a social situation, the 1911 is probably one of the last handguns I'd choose...

Not because I hate it, but because I just don't love it.

My first choice for a social situation would be my S&W 19 4", followed by my Model 19 2.5". I'm intimately familiar with both of those handguns, having put thousands of rounds through them and having carried both on more than a few occasions.

Also on the list would be my Model 57 in .41 Mag. or my Model 25-5 in .45 Colt. But, those would be way down on the list simply because I don't have any decent social situation ammo for them. Still, can't disagree with a chunk of lead that huge.

If I were limited to semi-autos, I'd likely pick either my Hi Power or my P7 PSP first. I'm not crazy about the Hi Power being single action only, but you gotta love that magazine capacity, and I especially love the way it fits my hand.

I wouldn't feel badly armed with either my S&W 410 in .40 S&W or my 4506 in .45 ACP, either.

I'd give an honorable mention to my Wather CCP, as well. I've never had a gun fit my hand so naturally as that one.
__________________
"The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza

Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.
Mike Irwin is offline  
Old December 1, 2023, 10:12 AM   #42
gwpercle
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 30, 2012
Location: Baton Rouge, Louisiana
Posts: 1,721
Buy a 1911 from Clark Custom Guns ...

Better Yet ... Have them build a 1911 to your specifications !

Everything they have done for me ... has put a smile on my face and a song in my heart . How much is happiness worth ?

You just been buying 1911's from the wrong places ... try Clark Custom Guns !
Louisiana Proud ,
Gary
gwpercle is offline  
Old December 1, 2023, 02:39 PM   #43
jmr40
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 15, 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 10,773
I don't hate them, actually like them a bit, but think they are over rated. I've had a bunch over the years and have a pretty good idea what they will and won't do. I no longer own one, but feel it is one of those guns that everybody should own for at least a while.

The 1911 was a great pistol in its day but was surpassed by better designs and was no longer a practical combat pistol by the end of WW-2.

I consider the 1911, the SAA revolver and all lever actions nostalgic pieces of history that everyone needs to try. But for practical use all 3 are no longer a top choice.
__________________
"If you're still doing things the same way you were doing them 10 years ago, you're doing it wrong"

Winston Churchill
jmr40 is offline  
Old December 1, 2023, 05:33 PM   #44
44 AMP
Staff
 
Join Date: March 11, 2006
Location: Upper US
Posts: 28,508
Quote:
The 1911 was a great pistol in its day but was surpassed by better designs and was no longer a practical combat pistol by the end of WW-2.
Considering that we didn't replace the 1911A1 until almost 40 years after the end of WW II, and its variants are still one of the more widely produced handguns, I'd say not everyone shares that opinion.

Absolutely there are more modern designs that do many things the 1911A1 doesn't, some of them are better personal defense arms than the 1911 type pistols.

To me the amazing thing is that while there are improved pistols designs today, the guns designed 50, 70, or 90 years after the 1911 aren't all that much better. Compare the design advances in cars and aircraft, from 1911 till now, and the design advances in pistols.

If you hate the 1911 simply use something else (that someone else hates ), and be happy with it.
__________________
All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.
44 AMP is online now  
Old December 2, 2023, 01:10 PM   #45
bigboredad
Member
 
Join Date: February 9, 2008
Location: utah
Posts: 20
I love 1911's especially Dan Wesson 1911's. They fit me well they look good to me conceal good for me and for easy to shoot and shoot well. If you hate 1911's that's ok I just hope you like shoot and carry something. I'll have all your leftover 1911's

Sent from my 9048S using Tapatalk
bigboredad is offline  
Old December 2, 2023, 02:29 PM   #46
Mike38
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 28, 2009
Location: North Central Illinois
Posts: 2,697
I must be blessed.... blessed by the M1911 gods. I own 4 of them, 3 Colts and a Norinco. Yes, a Norinco, that works flawlessly once I found mags that it likes. I would trust my life with any one of them.
Mike38 is offline  
Old December 2, 2023, 05:10 PM   #47
GeauxTide
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 20, 2009
Location: Helena, AL
Posts: 4,408
Have a TISAS and a Springfield. Love them for home use. Too heavy for carry. Have Glock 19, 43 for carry and 34 for target.
__________________
Reloading For: 223R, 243W, 6.5 GR, 6.5 CM, 260R, 6.5-06, 280R, 7mmRM, 300HAM'R, 308W, 30-06, 338-06, 9mm, 357M, 41M, 44SPL, 44M, 45 ACP, 45 Colt, 450BM.
GeauxTide is offline  
Old December 2, 2023, 10:49 PM   #48
5whiskey
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 23, 2005
Location: US
Posts: 3,620
I've had a Springfield and 2 RIAs. Never any major issues other than a mag or two here and there that is problematic on occasion. I've been able to shoot 230gn HP (speer GD) reliably from them. They are quite accurate. Though not mine, I've a friend/coworker who has a colt 70 series he picked up used for $500. It needed some cleaning and TLC... but it's right as rain today.

I believe the early 2000's Kimbers were sometimes problematic. I believe this was largely fixed by 2010. Oh the Ruger's are pretty good too.

Sometimes, the looser and more seemingly ill-fitted machines have enough play to run pretty darn good. They may not reach optimal accuracy and performance with looser tolerances, but they'll run all day and be more accurate than most humans can shoot. It's making a machine with tight tolerances for top level optimal performance that one or two machining burrs or a barrel bushing (or barrel) that's out of round by .002" can throw a wrench into things, and reliability suffers.
__________________
Support the NRA-ILA Auction, ends 03/09/2018

https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=593946
5whiskey is offline  
Old December 3, 2023, 06:33 AM   #49
Mike Irwin
Staff
 
Join Date: April 13, 2000
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 41,359
"Considering that we didn't replace the 1911A1 until almost 40 years after the end of WW II, and its variants are still one of the more widely produced handguns, I'd say not everyone shares that opinion."

Tradition is a very powerful thing...

And it's really not best to consider the military as a bulwark for active forward thinking.

Sure, the military that gave you the 1911 is also the military that, against all evidence, gave you the M14 and .308 cartridge.
__________________
"The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza

Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.
Mike Irwin is offline  
Old December 3, 2023, 02:19 PM   #50
44 AMP
Staff
 
Join Date: March 11, 2006
Location: Upper US
Posts: 28,508
Quote:
Sure, the military that gave you the 1911 is also the military that, against all evidence, gave you the M14 and .308 cartridge.
And it was "forward thinking" political appointees that took away the M14 and replaced it with the M16 and the .223 cartridge, while keeping the .308 as the machine gun round.

There is no doubt the military could have replaced the 1911A1 well before it did, but whether you call it tradition or inertia, they kept the 1911 as the primary service pistol for a long, long time.

The last major purchase of the 1911A1 was in 1945, and several of the contracts were cancelled when it became obvious that we had more than enough pistols to finish the war with. And then some,,,

Quote:
And it's really not best to consider the military as a bulwark for active forward thinking.
I consider the modern military to be pretty good at active forward thinking, for their own purposes and uses. However I do not consider military thinking to be the best or most applicable thinking for civilians. Private citizens are in a different place than servicemen and women. The military looks at mission over individual personal safety. And, the duty handgun is a fairly low priority in the ranking of military armaments.

The exact opposite is true for me, and most citizens, who view the handgun as the primary arm for self defense and put defense of self (and family) at the TOP of our priority list.

I was in the military. I've been a civilian for 45 years now. The job the military wants and needs a handgun to do and the job I want and need a handgun to do are vastly different things.

Since its my life (and my butt) on the line (potentially at least) its my standards I use to decide what is, and isn't right, for me. That the military chooses other things for other reasons doesn't matter to me, or really affect me in any significant way.
__________________
All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.
44 AMP is online now  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:51 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2021 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Page generated in 0.09613 seconds with 9 queries