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Old October 6, 2023, 09:28 AM   #26
wild cat mccane
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Look at the official PMC website I posted. 1050fps. PMC 40 165gr is 1040fps, a jhp, and is cheaper to buy than the FMJ 10mm.

Ballistic, financial, JHP/FMJ...just doesn't add up for range.
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Old October 6, 2023, 09:33 AM   #27
wild cat mccane
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Or Winchester.

180gr 10mm white box is 1080fps.
165gr .40 white box is is 1060fps and 180gr is 1040fps. You're not feeling that in "fun factor"

https://www.winchester.com/Products/...un/USA/USA10MM
https://www.winchester.com/Products/...dgun/USA/Q4238
https://www.winchester.com/Products/...un/USA/USA40SW
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Old October 6, 2023, 12:37 PM   #28
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Depends on what brand of ammo you buy Remington 180 gr 10mm is 1150 fps vs 990 fps for the same weight .40

https://www.remington.com/handgun/um.../29-23706.html

https://www.remington.com/handgun/um.../29-23742.html

Or Underwood's 10mm 180 gr FMJ is rated at 1250 fps vs 1000 fps for their 180 gr .40

https://underwoodammo.com/10mm-auto-...l-jacket-ammo/

https://underwoodammo.com/40-s-w-180...-hunting-ammo/

Finally Blazer Brass 10mm 180 gr FMJ is advertised at 1200 fps vs 985 fps for the 180 gr FMJ .40.

https://www.cci-ammunition.com/handg...ss/4-5221.html

https://www.cci-ammunition.com/handg...ss/4-5220.html

As to the price difference between the two calibers, while the Remington does have a significant price difference, the Underwood loadings are only $6/box more for 10mm and the Blazer Brass is only $2/box more.

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Old October 6, 2023, 12:55 PM   #29
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Folks - the original post asked for opinions on a 10mm pistol. Why did you start, and why do you continue to argue about ammo?

If you want to compare .40 S&W vs 10mm, start a new thread on the subject.
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Old October 6, 2023, 01:46 PM   #30
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Because the question was stated for range use. While the question wasn't asked, providing that the experience isn't going to be wildly different from a less expensive option is surely not annoying.

You can't really feel a difference between the weights of 40, so with 40 being almost 100% within the fps envelope for almost all 10mm range ammo is just information for a range use gun owner.

If someone said I can get you the same experience for cheaper and you'll be shooting Federal HST at every range outing, I would consider that as helpful knowledge. Even if not taken. Same recoil experience, within a 10mm weight, plus an accurate load?

But I hear ya, the question wasn't asked.

Good luck on the buy. Tanfoglio in Stock, Limited, or Stock Master. That's going to be your epic range gun experience in 10mm that 9mm shooters look for when we talk about the CZ Shadows.
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Old October 6, 2023, 03:28 PM   #31
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I absolutely agree a 10mm does not make much sense for a plink toy at the range...
Unless ,of course,you just want to do that. IMO,our pure preferences should be respected for our gun choices.
Its OK to plink with a 500 S+W of thats your thing.

IMO,range time,besides being fun, is prep for when you might exercise the real reason you bought the gun.

I keep coming back to post # 5 from the OP.

Quote:
I will also be using the pistol when traversing wilderness areas in the mountain west. I want something that is robust enough to handle real 10mm loads like the afore mentioned BB etc., ammunition
Its ultimately going to be carried as a sidearm in mountain wilderness.

No disrespect to competitive range games, but a 53 oz 10 mm wheel gun gets left at home.

I look at it first and foremost as a back country sidearm. Thats (IMO) #1.

All the criteria for punching paper ? Maybe get a 9mm or a 22 . Have fun.

If the need,real or imagined, is to deliver Buffalo Bore 10mm from a gun that will be carried in the Wilderness,.....IMO,choices narrow down.

I'd be looking at Glock,M+P, or equiv striker poly light and reliable .Affordable is a bonus.

The question is not about a 40. If the commentors prefer a 40 they should buy one. The OP said 10mm. Mountain Wilderness.

Sure,commentors enjoy different disciplines. Great! Who is the pistol for?
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Old October 6, 2023, 05:00 PM   #32
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I bought one of the M&P 2.0 10mm's last November, specifically the 4.6" barrel with manual safety model, and while I finally seem to have it running well, I'm sorry to say I'm disappointed that I had to do a bit of work to it to get there. The issue I had was weird nose-up failures to feed when using full-power ammo from Underwood or similar power handloads. The problem was that the gun was under-sprung, replacing the recoil spring with a 24 lb one from Galloway precision and the magazine springs with extra power ones from Springer Precision seems to have resolved the issue.

I can somewhat forgive the underpowered recoil spring as they probably wanted to ensure that the gun would still cycle low-powered ammo when an optic is mounted (the gun is optics cut, but I just run the iron sights and shoot full-power ammo almost exclusively). I'm not, however, as understanding of the, quite frankly, poor quality magazine springs. They aren't particularly strong to begin with and weaken significantly after being loaded for as little as 24 hours. Granted, replacement mag springs are only about $10 a piece, but I really don't think I should have to put springs in brand new mags particularly when they cost $40+ each.

My other 10mm is an old S&W 1076 which I've had for many years and been quite happy with, but magazines and other small parts are getting difficult to find and expensive hence my purchase of the M&P. Perhaps I'm being too harsh on S&W as I've heard of similar issues with other polymer, striker-fired 10mm's including Glocks and Springfields. If you want a poly 10mm, just bear in mind that you may need to tinker with the springs a bit to get 100% reliability with hot ammo.
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Old October 6, 2023, 07:55 PM   #33
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I bought a Glock 40 10mm for a trip to Idaho back in the summer and ran close to 300 200gr hard cast lead bullets and a couple hundred 165gr Berrys hollow base copper washed bullets through it. All reloads and never had an issue, the 200’s were going 1160 and the 165’s in the mid 1400’s.
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Old October 6, 2023, 09:09 PM   #34
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That's awesome you were able to find a solution on the smaller M&P.

I have been considering a 4.6 and kept coming across the issues threads with no solutions.

I'm very tempted on that model...kinda waiting for the "everything is great across time now" thread, then I think the price makes it an obvious choice.

As more of a hiker enthusiast than a gun guy, I do think that there aren't many options in 10mm. Hikes every weekend in Utah and near 100% never carry or a P365. But a G20 on a hike is hard and a G29 at the range isn't exactly perfect, as a G26 isn't a range gun either.

The P320 X-Ten is interesting bc you know that the FCU is swappable to the smaller frames which means Sig will be releasing a compact 10mm very soon...or you can straight make one.

I foresee the small grip on the X-Ten is going to make it the future winner...if the P320 does prove safe in the end Modular and small grip possible? that's a game changer for 10mm.
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Old October 6, 2023, 09:15 PM   #35
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For my money, I'd not choose the M&P, XD nor the P320.

If you are going to carry it a lot and shoot it a little, maybe. But I do not believe they are strong enough for a steady diet of 10mm. The one thing I don't want is for a pistol I own to become unserviceable 30 years from now, because I saved a few bucks, and my boys end up with a boat anchor. That also makes me leery of some 1911s even. Just my opinion based on only about 70K rounds of 10mm over the last 30 years.
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Old October 8, 2023, 11:00 AM   #36
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Just ordered the M&P performance center model. I've wanted a 10mm for about 30yrs and decided to do it. I reload so factory ammo is meaningless to me. Grip size is what sold me, the Glock is just uncomfortable in the large frame. Would've gone for a .40 but you can go further with 10 and can always download it if you prefer.
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Old October 8, 2023, 11:38 AM   #37
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My brother bought the Rock Island in 10, while I like the 1911 pattern a lot, I do not like the feed ramps resemblance to a brick wall.
Should I move to the 10mm a short frame Glock works for me in 10mm for my itty bitty girly hands.
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Old October 8, 2023, 01:53 PM   #38
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Now we are getting useful commentary! Great stuff!
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Old October 8, 2023, 09:44 PM   #39
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10mm

A target 10mm....? Well OK, the 1911 pattern pistols offer the best trigger, even in budget models. More money will get target sights, and good sights and triggers usually lead to guns that are easier to shoot well. About $450 will get you a RIA base GI model with matte finish and GI sights. Twice that may get you a Springfield Ronin or a Ruger with US mfg and target sights. The 1911 pistols come with all their old bumps and warts, manual safety, external hammer, magazine quirky 8+1 capacity and all steel weight. But I think the 1911 pattern pistols are easy to shoot well for a lot of folks.

For woods carry v. hairy threats, the G20 is arguably lighter, holds more rounds, are typically ultra reliable and are comparatively a lot of gun for the money. The G20 offers a simple, revolver like manual of arms. The G20 has its quirks, I don't really care for the factory sights, and the Glock trigger is long and squishy compared to a 1911 and requires more attention to trigger management. Bulleye shooting is not necessarily the Glock's forte, but in a hurry at interpersonal distances, the Glock works well as demonstrated by its popularity for SD, LE and competition like IDPA and 3gun.

Either gun can fill either roll, but each fills one a bit better than the other, for me anyhow. Factory 10mm ammo is typically a bit light for whatever reason, but the boutique companies sell 10mm ammo that gets the (near) magnum numbers the ctg can offer.
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Old October 9, 2023, 01:13 AM   #40
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I keep going back to that feed ramp on the 1911 pattern guns, it's just too darn abrupt to assure 100% reliability, esp. with differing bullet profiles. Carry duty for the woods is among the best reasons to own a 10mm, not that reasons are real important. I want one is a reason.
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Old October 9, 2023, 03:39 PM   #41
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The only bullet profile I’ve seen for 10mm/ 40 is truncated cone, whether FMJ or JHP. I have two 10mm 1911’s and neither has ever had a feed problem, or any other problem for that matter.
All the Glock 10’s are on the Glock large frame (10/ 45). I have a Glock 40 10mm and I find the grip to be a bit large, big around and long trigger reach, and I don’t have small hands. I’m not sure it will stay in my collection forever.
Don’t forget the Sig 220 or EAA Witness, which gives you SA and DA trigger. I have a 220 in 45 and would love one in 10mm, just have other wants that take precedent right now.
My final answer would be 1911.
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Old October 9, 2023, 05:15 PM   #42
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cmdc,
Since you say that you will mostly be punching paper, just about any 10mm platform will work for you. I am a 1911 guy and mine have been flawless, but the one gun I think I enjoy shooting the most is my Smith & Wesson 1066. It is one of the best balanced firearms I own and is very accurate. I have several thousand rounds down the barrel and it is my proverbial Timex watch. It truly takes a licking and keeps on ticking. I also have a Springfield XDM, Springfield Range Officer Elite Operator (1911) and a Colt Delta Elite Gold Cup (1911). All are fun to shoot.
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Old October 10, 2023, 11:21 AM   #43
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grips & bullet profiles & ramps

Yes, the G20 grip is big and almost clunky feeling, akin to grabbing a 2x4. I can manage mine, but there is a distinct difference from the 9mm family. The 1911 grip feels good to most everyone.

Regards bullets and ramps, the Winchester 175 gr Silvertip and the Ranger T variety have the most rounded projectile profiles in the 10mm ctg that I have seen. When manually releasing the slide to chamber a round, they do indeed seem to feed slicker to my ears. The truncated slugs from other mfg's do seem to chamber more harshly, but in my single 1911/10mm (RIA) they do feed. What I have found is that like all 1911 pistols, magazine mfg seems overly important, ie, some mags work better (and slicker) than others.

The ramped barrel of the RIA 10mm (and I suspect others) is a departure from the original 1911 feed system. Pro or con I cannot say, but I suspect it is a stronger arrangement, beneficial to 10mm pressures.
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Old October 11, 2023, 10:54 AM   #44
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10mm is a great excuse to start handloading, if you don't already.
I've loaded 135gr bullets at 1150, and at 1450.
You can mimic .40 if you want, or you can go where no .40 has gone before (I'm working up a load now to send a 220 at over 1200fps).
It does require a large frame, so hi-caps can be a handful, but you don't have to go hi-cap.
Ramped barrels are not necessary, unless you need to make a habit of pushing SAAMI limits with every shot. I've had one case head blow-out, and it was a .40-level handload in what was apparently a tired case.
When the Delta Elite was being developed, without a ramped barrel, Norma was the only ammo there was, which was as hot as anything available today.
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Old October 12, 2023, 05:25 AM   #45
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handloads

My enjoyment of handloading has returned lately. Circumstances have me at home a lot. I like the 10 mm a lot, it appeals both for it's semi auto design, and the amount of snort. My girly hands favor the short frame Glock as woods duty is about the only practical reason to own one. The combination of capacity, reliability, and power in a < 2 pound package is hard to beat.
1 bullet profile rather gives me pause with full house 10mm. Is the feed ramp for the Glock 10 as abrupt as 1911 pattern guns? Glock had their challenges with .40 and case support years ago.
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Old October 14, 2023, 10:45 AM   #46
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I only have significant experience with two 10mm pistols, the Sig P220 and the Glock 20. Of the two, the Glock was considerably softer shooting and more accurate in my hands.

If I was looking for a 10mm pistol today, I would buy the M&P without a doubt. It’s like the Glock, but better (trigger, ergonomics, etc).
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Old October 15, 2023, 09:58 AM   #47
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Kimber 10mm target II is a good one for paper punching. Most commercial ammo is really not much hotter than 40. Maybe an extra 100 to 150fps.
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Old October 16, 2023, 09:43 AM   #48
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M+P

How is the grip size of the M+P? The full size Glock is too big for my little mitts. The short frame works. I will need to feel up an M+P in 10 and see if it fits my girly mitts.
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Old October 16, 2023, 11:49 PM   #49
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The 10mm FCU fits the 9mm frame if you go Sig X-Ten. The 45 FCU does NOT fit the 9mm frame.

But then you have a P320 variant...

Life is trade offs.
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Old October 17, 2023, 01:22 AM   #50
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If money is no concern, buy two guns:
  1. Pick any auto-pistol. Doesn't matter which,'cuz it won't end up being your favorite.
  2. Look for a late-first generation, pre WWII, Colt Single Action revolver in 38-40, buy it and have a competent gunsmith fit an extra 10mm cylinder to it and see what happens from there.
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