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Old September 27, 2023, 08:32 AM   #1
jar
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Tisas Fatih: another Turkish pistol

Almost a month ago I purchased a used Tisas Fatih but when it was shipped to my FFL the zip code had two numbers transposed. That lead to what the Dead called "A Long Strange Trip". About two weeks after it was scheduled to arrive at my FFL the little pistol showed up. However the local indoor range is closed right now for cleaning and lead abatement so I've had a chance to do a cleaning and inspection of my Tisas Fatih.

Some basics.

First about the name; "Fatih" is the district in Istanbul/Constantinople.

The pistol is a licensed version of the Beretta 84, specifically the BB version of the Cheetah. It's a dual stack 9mm Corto/.380 and came with two 13 round Mecgar magazines that appear to be the standard Mecgar Beretta 84 magazines but with a slight different base profile. It has an aluminum alloy frame and steel slide and is DA/SA. Weight with a loaded magazine is 1 pound 7 ounces. The DA trigger pull (10 pull average using my Lyman digital trigger pull gauge) was 4 pounds 13 ounces and SA was 1 pound 9 ounces. The DA pull is long and very smooth while the SA is short and really crisp with a reasonable reset both tactile and audible.

The sight picture is a SnowMan, single larger dot in back and single smaller dot in front. Will report on how that does once the range opens. It's easy to reach all the controls and has an ambi safety.

Internally it has a firing pin block that gets raised when trigger is fully to the rear and the safety puts the trigger in a free mode that does not connect hammer or sear or the firing pin block making it somewhat safer than my 81 7.65 version. It does not have a decocker but the firing pin block does make lowering the hammer on a live round slight safer.

Take down is just like the rest of the Cheetah family; press button on left and rotate lever on right. The only difference I've found is the recoil spring is about a million times heavier than the 7.65 version. Reassembly has the same issues as the 81; make sure the recoil spring is seated in the right spot and that the barrel is seated fully in the slide and it's easier if you reassemble with the hammer cocked.

Overall I'm impressed by the fit, finish and lack of machining marks, on the uniformity of the coating (Ceracote?) and a total lack of obvious cost cutting signs. Once the range gets opened I'll add a range report.

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Old September 27, 2023, 08:49 AM   #2
Jim Watson
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Quote:
The DA trigger pull (10 pull average using my Lyman digital trigger pull gauge) was 4 pounds 13 ounces and SA was 1 pound 9 ounces.
That is extremely light. Watching for reliable ignition, good firing pin indents. Wants careful handling in CCW.
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Old September 27, 2023, 09:15 AM   #3
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That is extremely light. Watching for reliable ignition, good firing pin indents. Wants careful handling in CCW.
It's slightly lighter than with my 81 but not really significantly.

Using the same gauge and 10 pull average with my Beretta 81 (7.65) I get 5 pounds 8 ounces DA and 1 pound 10 ounces SA. But the linkage is slightly different between the two and the 81 does not have the firing pin block.

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Old September 27, 2023, 10:43 AM   #4
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The range is back open so I ran by and put 40 rounds (2x13 + 1, the original 13+1 and two more magazines) at 7 yards with moderately rapid fire. There were no failure to fire, cycle or eject using all ball ammo, FMJ and also sintered. Recoil impulse was very manageable, the Snowball sight picture was fine and in all I'm pretty satisfied so far.

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Last edited by jar; September 27, 2023 at 03:05 PM.
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Old September 27, 2023, 12:40 PM   #5
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That’s a good looking pistol.
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Old September 29, 2023, 08:07 AM   #6
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On another board the accuracy of the Lyman Gauge I'm using was questioned so I used it to weigh an unopened HEB gallon of Spring Water. The average of ten pulls was 8 pounds 10.9 ounces instead of the expected 8 pounds 5.4 ounces plus a fudge for the plastic so that seems close enough.
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Old September 29, 2023, 09:42 AM   #7
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I have a Lyman digital gauge myself, but idk if I believe those numbers. That would be dramatically lower than anything I’ve ever measured on a production pistol.

Either way, seems a nice pistol. Enjoy!
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Old September 29, 2023, 10:34 AM   #8
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I have a Lyman digital gauge myself, but idk if I believe those numbers. That would be dramatically lower than anything I’ve ever measured on a production pistol.

Either way, seems a nice pistol. Enjoy!
Using the same gauge and 10 pull average with my Beretta 81 (7.65) I get 5 pounds 8 ounces DA and 1 pound 10 ounces SA. But the linkage is slightly different between the two and the 81 does not have the firing pin block.

My 81 is the Base version (no firing pin block) even though it carries a 1980 date code.

Also testing the gauge using an unopened gallon of HEB Spring Water indicates the gauge is registering reasonably accurate results. It read 8# 10.9 oz and an empty HEB Spring Water Jug weighed in at 4.6 ounces so I'm relatively confident in the scale accuracy.
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Old September 29, 2023, 10:39 AM   #9
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Tisas Fatih: another Turkish pistol

I saw your post about your test. I’ll be honest and say I’m still somewhat skeptical. At the end of the day whether or not I, one stranger on the internet, am skeptical of what you see on your own trigger gauge is kind of meaningless. In my experience I can get notably different readings with that gauge depending on where on the face of the trigger I put the measuring point of the gauge and how I press the trigger to the rear, from the speed to the angle of the press. Changing those factors I can get measurements that differ by pounds. This isn’t me saying “you’re wrong”, it’s more me in my own experience just wondering how accurate in terms of absolute measurement that gauge actually is. I do think it’s still usable for relative differences, which you have with your 81. At the end of the day it’s also only one measurement of a pistol, and I’ll be honest again and say that for me not an overly critical measurement at that. Everything else you describe about the pistol is encouraging.
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Old September 29, 2023, 01:32 PM   #10
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I saw your post about your test. I’ll be honest and say I’m still somewhat skeptical. At the end of the day whether or not I, one stranger on the internet, am skeptical of what you see on your own trigger gauge is kind of meaningless. In my experience I can get notably different readings with that gauge depending on where on the face of the trigger I put the measuring point of the gauge and how I press the trigger to the rear, from the speed to the angle of the press. Changing those factors I can get measurements that differ by pounds. This isn’t me saying “you’re wrong”, it’s more me in my own experience just wondering how accurate in terms of absolute measurement that gauge actually is. I do think it’s still usable for relative differences, which you have with your 81. At the end of the day it’s also only one measurement of a pistol, and I’ll be honest again and say that for me not an overly critical measurement at that. Everything else you describe about the pistol is encouraging.
Exactly.

Different hand actions can result in different results but the readings are still what your finger would experience if you duplicated those movements.

It's also why I try to take at least ten readings and then average those individual readings.

Go back to the water bottle example. If I simply lift the bottle straight up I will get one reading. If I lay the bottle on it's side I will get a different reading and if I jerk the scale I'll get yet a third reading. But those readings each tell me what the effort would be if I used my finger instead of the scale.

The tests with the water jug indicate the scale is reading correctly. The numbers I posted related to trigger pull was an average of ten pulls and so a reasonable indication of what effort was required to get the hammer to drop and strike the firing pin.

I probably should have posted the range of variation but in the trigger pull data set it was never very great. In the case of the vertical lift with the water jug there was never more than a tenth of an ounce variation. In trigger pull it was greater but that is why I used an average.
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Old September 29, 2023, 01:45 PM   #11
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Tisas Fatih: another Turkish pistol

I’m aware you reported an average as you very clearly and kindly wrote as much in the opening post. Again I own one myself and it has a specific button to give you the average, so I wasn’t questioning whether your result was a one off measurement. I did not mean to distract from your thread with my comments. Have a nice day.
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Old September 29, 2023, 02:12 PM   #12
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I’m aware you reported an average as you very clearly and kindly wrote as much in the opening post. Again I own one myself and it has a specific button to give you the average, so I wasn’t questioning whether your result was a one off measurement. I did not mean to distract from your thread with my comments. Have a nice day.
You were no distraction and actually helped explain what is the real meaning of reported measurements.

Thank you!
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Old September 29, 2023, 03:06 PM   #13
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I looked at a number of YouTube videos which included trigger pull measurements of Beretta .380s (including the new 80X) and their Girsan and Tisas clones. The DA results in those videos were typically in the 5.5-7 pound range, with SA results varying more in the 2-5 pound range. Given differences in individual pistols and in measurement devices and techniques, I can readily accept jar's findings.
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Old September 29, 2023, 03:10 PM   #14
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My understanding was the 80X is using lighter springs to get those lighter weights and its measurements are lower than the older Beretta 80 series. Maybe Tisas is as well.

In full disclosure these were my references going into the thread.

TFB TV review of an older Beretta 84:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKe_XqOpPjw&t=473s
SA of 4 lb. 10.7 oz. and a DA of 8 lb. 15.5 oz on a Lyman digital gauge. That is pretty much in line with the triggers of production DA/SA pistols I have measured in the past, so there's an admitted element of confirmation bias on my part.

This is the review of the newer 80X from the same channel:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qpsdooq_5vQ&t=383s
SA of 4 lb. 13.3 oz. on a Lyman digital gauge.
The same model pistol reviewed by Lucky Gunner details a SA of 4.5 lb. and a DA of 6.5 lb.
https://www.luckygunner.com/lounge/b...06.5%20pounds.

I will also fully admit that just because I have never seen a production DA/SA pistol with a SA as light as 1 lb. 9 oz. doesn't mean it can't happen. That's a lighter trigger than I personally would want, but I know others that would appreciate that. I'm not trying to beat a dead horse. I'm trying to explain why seeing that trigger weight surprises me as much as it does.

Last edited by TunnelRat; September 29, 2023 at 03:49 PM.
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Old September 29, 2023, 03:27 PM   #15
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The Tisas offerings so far are based with very few deviations on the Beretta 80 BB series pistols. One significant difference is the front grip profile which lacks the slight forward sweep at the bottom front.

Beretta 81:



Fatih:



The 2024 version is reported to more closely follow the Beretta profile.
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File Type: jpg grip-difference.jpg (134.2 KB, 442 views)
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Old September 30, 2023, 03:03 PM   #16
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And now wearing a set of Brazilian Cherry Herrett's stocks.



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Old October 1, 2023, 07:21 PM   #17
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The Fatih was previously sold as the MS380.
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Old October 3, 2023, 07:14 AM   #18
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I had one of those back in the summer. I really enjoyed it, but saw something else I couldn't live without, so I sold/traded it. Story of my life.

I guess I put a couple hundred rounds through it, ball and HP. No malfunctions. I shot it no worse than I do most other guns. Beretta magazines fit and functioned just fine. Yea, there are small 9mm's the same size or smaller, but I don't care much for them. The Tisas is no pocket pistol, but it's OK for a belt or IWB holster. I never checked the trigger pull with a scale, but I don't remember it being bad at all.

Who knows. I might end up with another one, one of these days. It's not like it's never happened before.
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Old October 3, 2023, 09:49 AM   #19
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The Beretta 84F I bought on a whim, as cheap Israeli surplus, quickly became a “never sell” mainstay EDC.
The Cheetah is an excellent pistol.
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Old October 3, 2023, 10:42 AM   #20
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I had one of those back in the summer. I really enjoyed it, but saw something else I couldn't live without, so I sold/traded it. Story of my life.

I guess I put a couple hundred rounds through it, ball and HP. No malfunctions. I shot it no worse than I do most other guns. Beretta magazines fit and functioned just fine. Yea, there are small 9mm's the same size or smaller, but I don't care much for them. The Tisas is no pocket pistol, but it's OK for a belt or IWB holster. I never checked the trigger pull with a scale, but I don't remember it being bad at all.

Who knows. I might end up with another one, one of these days. It's not like it's never happened before.
I belt carry most of my guns and right now use two of the holsters from the Boxes of Shame.

A Brauer Bros:



and a Bucheimer:

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File Type: jpg Bucheimer-Fatih.jpg (496.9 KB, 286 views)
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