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Old September 21, 2023, 03:15 PM   #76
DaleA
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Most of the folks I know would be quite happy to have our gun rights left alone, and feel that catching, and removing from society those people who shoot people for fun or profit is the better way to go.
Yep.

I've mentioned this before, in the Twin Cities, Minnesota a guy put three 9mm rounds into a car full of people, (no one in the car got hit by the bullets) and the guy who fired on the car got six months wearing an ankle bracelet and some community service. Sheesh! Accountability??? It's left this area.
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Old September 22, 2023, 03:21 PM   #77
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I got to thinking about this the other night (rarely a good thing, ) but I got to wondering, when a court (including SCOTUS) rules an executive order invalid (state or Fed) would it be because the order is found unconstitutional, or because the order exceeds legal authority under existing law?

Or, would it (most likely) something different in each individual case??
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Old September 22, 2023, 06:01 PM   #78
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A court could find an executive order invalid for a variety of reasons. A court will usually issue its ruling together with a written opinion setting out the bases for the ruling.
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Old September 23, 2023, 03:12 PM   #79
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But will they?
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Old September 23, 2023, 05:43 PM   #80
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"You'll have to read it to find out."
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Old September 23, 2023, 09:50 PM   #81
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"You'll have to read it to find out."
You have to read all written words to find out what they say.

still, that's better than "we have to pass the bill in order to find out what's in it"
and even worse, some otherwise intelligent people actually bought into that line of crap.

So, the court's "stay" on the NM Gov's order expires in less than two weeks, what do you suppose the next step will be?
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Old September 23, 2023, 11:38 PM   #82
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"You'll have to read it to find out."
You have to read all written words to find out what they say.

still, that's better than "we have to pass the bill in order to find out what's in it"
That statement by Mrs. Pelosi was what I was mimicking.
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Old September 24, 2023, 02:12 AM   #83
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I knew that, was just being a brat...

Just out of curiosity is that lady who thought the heat shield was "the shoulder thing that goes up" still in office??

or the politician who thought magazines were used up and tossed out once the ammo was out of them???

I think one of the weaknesses in our system is that, essentially, the only technical competency test needed before a politician can make law is convincing enough people to vote them into office.

I know they can have experts advise them, it just seems like so few actually listen and even fewer understand.
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Old September 24, 2023, 07:37 AM   #84
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So, the court's "stay" on the NM Gov's order expires in less than two weeks, what do you suppose the next step will be?
Good question. She's so desperate to get in the good graces of national politics she might just cool her jets for the duration. At the very least, she'll just toe the line for a while and do nothing more.

I keep thinking she'll put in another mask mandate.

NM has a tendency to want to imitate the coastal politics. That may be the reason we're able to keep a massive Air Force Base here in town. It's likely how the state gets a lot of funding from federal agencies to keep us out of the poor house. It's definitely how the state gets political contributions from wealthy democrats.

We have a 30 day session of lawmaking at the beginning of every other year and the in between years are a 60 day session. Last session was a 60 day session and it was scary for a while there. They put up somewhere around a dozen draconian gun laws but only passed one. This year, a 30 day session, they don't have a lot of time to work so it's possible that they won't put a lot out there.

With any luck, though, the Republican minority in the state gov't will make good use of the new political capital the governor just handed to them and they'll be able to put out some effective changes. Including stripping away the governor's power to put out emergency edicts.

We're such a backwater state, it's unbelievable.

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Old September 24, 2023, 12:21 PM   #85
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Including stripping away the governor's power to put out emergency edicts.
You might want to think that one through a bit more. There are good and valid reasons why "emergency powers" and the authority to grant them to the Executive exist.

The problem comes about when the executive (in this case the NM Governor) decides that since they have "emergency power" they are the sole autocrat, and not only their will, but their whims have the power of law.

I know of one state where the Governor was granted "emergency power" for 30 days, and he kept it for over 600 days, and the state legislature (dominated by the same party the Gov belongs to) did NOTHING.....

I suppose NM residents could count themselves lucky that the Gov didn't declare martial law, send in the troops, do house to house searches and hang the bodies of anyone found with a gun from the lampposts with piano wire...

Such things are not impossible when neither the Constitution nor their Oath of Office are considered binding.
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Old September 24, 2023, 12:57 PM   #86
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Just out of curiosity is that lady who thought the heat shield was "the shoulder thing that goes up" still in office??
That was Rep. Carolyn McCarthy, of New York. I believe she retired about ten years ago.
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Old September 25, 2023, 05:50 AM   #87
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You might want to think that one through a bit more. There are good and valid reasons why "emergency powers" and the authority to grant them to the Executive exist.

The problem comes about when the executive (in this case the NM Governor) decides that since they have "emergency power" they are the sole autocrat, and not only their will, but their whims have the power of law.
That's what happened here, during covid. The legislature wanted to curtail her ability to declare emergencies too frequently or for too long without calling for special sessions mid year. They wanted to mandate limits to her abilities. Regrettably, they didn't do it. The sad thing? Their motivation had more to do with fears of what a Republican governor might do rather than a general restriction on any governor, regardless of party.

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Originally Posted by 44 AMP View Post
I know of one state where the Governor was granted "emergency power" for 30 days, and he kept it for over 600 days, and the state legislature (dominated by the same party the Gov belongs to) did NOTHING.....

I suppose NM residents could count themselves lucky that the Gov didn't declare martial law, send in the troops, do house to house searches and hang the bodies of anyone found with a gun from the lampposts with piano wire...
If she were to do such a thing, it wouldn't be too surprising, sadly enough. She has that mindset.

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Such things are not impossible when neither the Constitution nor their Oath of Office are considered binding.
That was the most horrifying thing she said.

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Old September 25, 2023, 07:26 AM   #88
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Quote:
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Such things are not impossible when neither the Constitution nor their Oath of Office are considered binding.
That was the most horrifying thing she said.
Take care.... "The Constitution is Not a Suicide Pact" seems to be a banner used to
wrap one's political self in for increasingly "useful" reasons these days...
... and then say " and whatd'ya gonna do about it ? "
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Old September 25, 2023, 01:31 PM   #89
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No, the Constitution is not a suicide pact. Neither is it something to be blithely ignored or sidestepped just because someone thinks we are all going to die, Die, DIE!! if we don't ignore the Constitution and do what they think is the right thing.

If you are in favor of obeying a single individual who states they will do what is needed, no matter what the Constitution says, please signify that by extending and raising your right arm to an approximate 45 degrees, palm down, fingers extended.

Most people will understand where you're coming from if you do that.

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Old September 25, 2023, 03:26 PM   #90
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What's really disheartening is that if I break the law my life seriously gets messed up, socially, financially, etc.

Our elected officials break the law and suffer no consequences.

The Supreme Court decides some law is unconstitutional and they just come back with new laws that are even more unconstitutional...again, without consequences for their actions.
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Old September 25, 2023, 04:22 PM   #91
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I wouldn't say there are no consequences, but we usually don't SEE them most of the time.

The one consequence they fear most is up to US to make happen, not re-electing them, or when possible, removing them from office early.
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Old October 11, 2023, 04:50 PM   #92
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The NM governor was in my news again, today, using statistics and emotion to justify that she had to "do something about the gun violence epidemic"...

DO you think it possible that none of her advisors ever informed her that doing the wrong thing is just as bad, or sometimes even worse than doing nothing??

Or do you think it more likely someone did tell her that, and she just decided not to listen??
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Old October 11, 2023, 05:36 PM   #93
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I think it's more likely that her advisors think exactly the way she thinks.
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Old October 12, 2023, 08:30 AM   #94
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I watched her press conference when she first rolled this out. At one point, she mentioned renewing the order, and it became clear to me that she plans to do exactly that as long as she can.

Sure enough: Governor renews executive orders around gun violence and substance misuse, DOH updates public health order.
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Old October 13, 2023, 02:25 PM   #95
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The NM governor was in my news again, today, using statistics and emotion to justify that she had to "do something about the gun violence epidemic"...
44 maybe you haven’t heard the new sinking boat analogy
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Old October 13, 2023, 04:54 PM   #96
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44 maybe you haven’t heard the new sinking boat analogy
If its the one I'm thinking of, I think I did hear something about it, somewhere, fairly recently...
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Old October 14, 2023, 10:21 AM   #97
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I would hope that New Mexicans would do something about this, but other than some vague noises last month, there has been nothing, so I expect she will get away with it in perpetuity now.
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Old October 14, 2023, 11:45 AM   #98
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Other than the angry mob (is there another kind? ) storming the castle, torches and pitchforks in hand, to get rid of the monster, what do you suggest be done??

Virtually all the LEO involved or affected have stated they will not enforce it, A judge has ordered a stay on it, lawsuits have been filed, and if I heard correctly, a recall effort is in the works.

Seems like even some people who don't care about gun rights are not very pleased with a politician who publicly states that they don't consider their Oath of Office or the US Constitution to be binding on their authority and actions.
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Old October 14, 2023, 04:59 PM   #99
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Recall and impeachment is what I would both expect and desire, but the Demonrats have a solid lock on the majority. What we've seen is the Demonrats have one fundamental "strength", the ability to completely deny reality in order to back each other up. Even though many Demonrats stated she had gone too far, not one wanted her removed, and the elected officials in NM stood mute, other than two Republican Congress critters who apparently could do nothing by themselves.
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Old October 14, 2023, 08:15 PM   #100
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Part of their strength is the appearance that they are monolithic. And when it comes to going after or resisting the opposing party they pretty much are, but when its not a matter of the other party, (and, this, isn't) their lockstep isn't as solid as it seems.

Whether or not it rises to enough for them to actually act against their own party members or not is highly situational, but we have recently seen some Dems critizing the party policy on certain issues.

Since she has stated that she does not feel bound by her Oath of Office or the Constitution, its not impossible that the party block in NM might declare her a "lone wolf" and toss her under the bus, if that was what they thought they needed to do, to retain their majority and control.

Wouldn't hurt my feelings any if that happened, but, I'm not holding my breath waiting....
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