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Old April 22, 2023, 09:22 PM   #1
1972RedNeck
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Most reliable 9mm

I carry a pistol in all of my farm vehicles as a basic tool (varmints, deer hits, badly injured cattle, etc). Lots of dirt roads with lots of dust. 3 of my 4 farm trucks have revolvers. I pull the trigger, they go bang. One of them I have been carrying a .40 P229 Sig. I love shooting it, but it is possibly the pickiest pistol on the face of the earth. Tried a myriad of different ammo and the only one that hasn't tried to jam is white box Winchester. Have sent it in to Sig (great customer service) and the polished the feed ramp and said everything was fine and it didn't help. I keep it clean and have to have it dripping with lube to make it cycle reliably. When it's dripping with lube, it's attracts dust like crazy, so I have to clean it constantly.

In other words, it makes a terrible farm truck gun.

Thinking about replacing it with a 9mm if I can find one that is dead reliable with minimal gun oil or a dry lube and will tolerate a nasty, dusty environment. First thought was a Glock, but I hear great things about the IWI Masada 9MM as well.

In your experience, what is the most reliable 9mm for bad conditions? I'm basically looking for the AK47 of 9mm pistols...

Or should I just forget pistols and get another revolver?
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Old April 22, 2023, 09:23 PM   #2
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Man you need a CZ P09.
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Old April 22, 2023, 10:05 PM   #3
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I shoot a Springfield armory 9mm XDm.

I rarely clean it, but it just runs whatever I feed it. I handload, and give it JUST enough charge to lock the slide back and then go production with that load.

The trigger is a bit stiff out of the box, and a 2 handed thumb high grip is VERY easy to ride the slide lock on it, so you have to pay attention to that in order for it slide lock on an empty mag, but other than that it is a gem.
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Old April 22, 2023, 11:00 PM   #4
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I have owned a number of P series SIGs, including in 40SW. It should not be that temperamental.
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Old April 22, 2023, 11:12 PM   #5
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I don't know the constant dusty or dirty environments, but, perhaps, consider some of the handguns which went to war in such environments, just in 9mm per the title.

-Perhaps a 9mm revolver (Ruger has a few);
-1911, perhaps a looser one (I seldom would recommend a 1911 to just anybody, however);
-Beretta M9 or similar;
-Glock (various military including SpecOps use);
-Although SIG has had its share of military deployments, it's apparently not working for the OP;

Just briefly thinking out loud in response to this thread. I don't really know, but will find this thread interesting as to what the OP finds out what will work.
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Old April 22, 2023, 11:29 PM   #6
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SIG

The SIG P-series reputation for reliability and accuracy is quite good. The SEAL teams were very big on the P226, and a wide variety of federal agencies issued the SIG when the DA/SA pistol was the way back in the 1990's and early 2000.s. My agency issued the SIG P229-.40 along with several other P series guns and their performance was very good for us as well. There were some issues with the P229 and the .40 ammo early on.

-I serviced 2-3 P229-40 pistols that had blown extractors, ie, the pistol discharged, extracted and rechambered a fresh round and fired again but.... with the first shot the extractor and usually the extractor pin departed with the first spent case. That issue was attributed to extremely high pressure .40 ammo, the cartridge was just on the market. But comparing the replacement extractors and pins to old stock yielded some differences in the new parts as well.

-I was fortunate enough to certify and recertify several times as a SIG P-series armorer, and on more than one occasion I heard the expression that the guns were "wet" pistols that needed sufficient lube to run at their best. This was attributed to the very tight tolerances and machining maintained by SIG during manufacture. That said, failures to feed/extract /eject were VERY rare on well lubed and maintained pistols, and I watched and fired a large number of rounds thru assorted P models over the course of training and firearms quals for about 20 yrs. Failures were almost always a case of bad ammo or lack of maintenance/lube. One particular pistol did not like a Federal RNFP 180 gr FMJ training round that we used, but that gun was polished by SIG and returned and ran like a champ henceforth. Seems I recall that the factory recommendation was a details armorer strip and clean every 2000 rds or annually.

-One issue that did crop up occasionally was that a pistol would not be reassembled properly by the shooter after a clean and field strip. I saw this twice on different P226/9mm guns. The recoil spring had been reversed upon reassembly after cleaning. There is a "tight" end and a "loose" end of the spring and the tight end is the end that is threaded over the muzzle upon reassembly. You would not think that mattered.....but it did. "Tight is right" is the mantra.

-All that said, I would have to say that the AK of 9mm pistols is indeed the common and affordable G17
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Old April 22, 2023, 11:56 PM   #7
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I just got a Canik TP9 SF Elite. As far as I know they're only in 9mm and the Turkish Special Forces use them. So I'd think because of that fact they'd be dead reliable like you want. Now while I haven't taken it shooting yet I've looked into it online and they appear to be excellent guns for the cost.
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Old April 23, 2023, 12:03 AM   #8
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In regards to my Sig - I got it used for cheap because it wouldn't feed. Something catches as the next round is coming up, just before the rim gets to the extractor. It leaves a small dent in the case when it jams. Runs white box winchester perfect with minimal lube. Most anything else needs to be dripping wet to run. Most kinds of ammo do feed when wet, but I can feel the slide catch occasionally like its trying to jam. I have tried the recoil spring (and new springs) both ways, definitely worse when the wrong way. Sending it to Sig didn't change a thing.

Super accurate and fun to shoot, I just don't think I will ever be able to trust it.

Like the looks of the CZ and IWI. Not the biggest Glock fan, but I realize they are solid pistols.
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Old April 23, 2023, 05:23 AM   #9
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Get an old style holster with a flap to keep dust and dirt accumulating to a minimum.
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Old April 23, 2023, 06:10 AM   #10
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I shoot the heck out of that CZ. I believe it is an extremely strong design, it feels like a gun designed for 40SW rebarreled into 9mm. The barrel is very thick with nice rifling. It is a single/double action gun. The factory provided a safety conversion parts set to change it into a single action only.

The grip is large and still fits many different hand sizes well. Sights are pretty good too. I painted mine black to give better contrast against paper plates.

I've brought several new shooters to the range with a big bag of guns, after trying everything they all prefer the P09. I think the weight and size combined with excellent quality 19 round capacity magazines, really easy to see sights, and smooth consistent trigger press make it fun to shoot.

I keep it dry or minimally lubricated so carbon does not stick inside.
I periodically clean after use because it bothers me when it's filthy. Using standard power level/standard bullet design ammunition I have never had a jam in over twenty thousand rounds.

The gun runs flawless and still strikes where the front sight covers in this case my preference is paper plates at the fifty yards indoor range in the NRA's basement.

I like the double action trigger for self protection carry purposes.
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Old April 23, 2023, 07:10 AM   #11
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I'm about as far from a Glock fanboy as you're going to find, but for your situation, I'd just get Glock, 17 or 19.
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Old April 23, 2023, 08:07 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1972RedNeck View Post
I carry a pistol in all of my farm vehicles as a basic tool (varmints, deer hits, badly injured cattle, etc). Lots of dirt roads with lots of dust. 3 of my 4 farm trucks have revolvers. I pull the trigger, they go bang. One of them I have been carrying a .40 P229 Sig. I love shooting it, but it is possibly the pickiest pistol on the face of the earth. Tried a myriad of different ammo and the only one that hasn't tried to jam is white box Winchester. Have sent it in to Sig (great customer service) and the polished the feed ramp and said everything was fine and it didn't help. I keep it clean and have to have it dripping with lube to make it cycle reliably. When it's dripping with lube, it's attracts dust like crazy, so I have to clean it constantly.

In other words, it makes a terrible farm truck gun.

Thinking about replacing it with a 9mm if I can find one that is dead reliable with minimal gun oil or a dry lube and will tolerate a nasty, dusty environment. First thought was a Glock, but I hear great things about the IWI Masada 9MM as well.

In your experience, what is the most reliable 9mm for bad conditions? I'm basically looking for the AK47 of 9mm pistols...

Or should I just forget pistols and get another revolver?
When you sent your gun in to Sig, did you also send in your magazines? You need to find out what the distinction is between when they fire your gun [works] and you fire your gun [doesn't work]. Your magazines could be the root cause of your troubles - if Sig used their own magazines during their test fire.
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Old April 23, 2023, 08:24 AM   #13
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Get the glock and be done with it. Its a farm truck gun, then get yourself a fancy range toy.
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Old April 23, 2023, 08:45 AM   #14
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I think you'd find as much reliability in a different example of the P229, as in a different gun.
In 25+ years of shooting and observing handgun performance in IDPA and USPSA competition, where reliability is more important than just about any other performance characteristic, I've seen no real advantage in any brand or model of handgun.
Quality guns all run with about the same reliability.
There's no magic, and certainly no perfection.
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Old April 23, 2023, 10:56 AM   #15
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Sounds like a hostile enviroment.

Only one manufacture makes a coating for Hostile Environments. But you suck and we hate you-HK.

Your sig is uniquely wrong. All major manufacture guns function right now. There arent any that just dont. You are going to get lots of dif suggestions or praise, but that proves the point.

Revolver and dirt is where i shudder with crap. I have had lots of in my own very hand binding. . Cylinder cant rotate, gun can't fire. The myth of the revolver is strong.
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Old April 23, 2023, 12:58 PM   #16
1972RedNeck
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I keep my guns clean, they just get exposed to a lot of dust. If the cylinder won't spin nice and free and smooth, I take it apart and clean it.

Is the HK a good option? Maybe I should care, but I don't really care about company politics and the like...
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Old April 23, 2023, 01:44 PM   #17
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reliable 9

For me it's my 30+ year old Hi-Power that has yet to have a FTF or FTE.
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Old April 23, 2023, 01:56 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CajunBass
I'm about as far from a Glock fanboy as you're going to find, but for your situation, I'd just get Glock, 17 or 19.
For the circumstances outlined in the opening post, this would be my recommendation, as well. Like CajunBass, I am not a Glock fanboi and I hope never to own one, but they are generally reliable, they are polymer so there's less steel there to rust, and they don't have an exterior finish that gets banged up from rough handling.
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Old April 23, 2023, 03:08 PM   #19
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I handled a Springfield Armory Browning hi power yesterday it felt crunchy when the slide was operated and the beaver tail has sharp corners where it meets my hand.

Unfortunately no live fire demonstration to confirm or deny my suspicions.
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Old April 23, 2023, 03:29 PM   #20
wild cat mccane
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Even another of your exact p series could be honestly recommended.

There just isnt a questionable brand right now. Maybe Taurus or Kimber...

Dirt really shouldnt gum up an auto. The recoil spring
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Old April 23, 2023, 04:43 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Recycled bullet
I handled a Springfield Armory Browning hi power yesterday it felt crunchy when the slide was operated and the beaver tail has sharp corners where it meets my hand.

Unfortunately no live fire demonstration to confirm or deny my suspicions.
What suspicions?
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Old April 23, 2023, 04:45 PM   #22
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Hard to go wrong with a Glock. But your Sig should have done better. It's not the Sig design. I'm going with something about that particular Sig.

Revolvers are actually one of the worst choices for dirty environments. Lots of small, complex moving parts with tight tolerances and lots of openings for crud to get inside. Striker fired semi-autos keep the moving parts inside, and there are fewer openings for crud to get inside.
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Old April 23, 2023, 05:24 PM   #23
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I'm another who is not one of Glock's greatest fans. But, as already suggested, I'd say get a Glock and be done with it. Relaxed fit of barrel/slide/frame, generous chamber dimensions, etc. Just the thing for a dusty environment. I've had a number of boringly reliable 9mm pistols that I much prefer over Glocks. But for reliability, reasonable price, ease of service and parts availably, hard to beat Glock IMHO..
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Old April 23, 2023, 05:34 PM   #24
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Smith and Wesson M&P series may be worth a look . Ultra reliable in my experience , although I have not used one in the dusty conditions you describe.
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Old April 23, 2023, 05:54 PM   #25
bamaranger
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"jam"

I'm having a bit of a problem following what your "jam" looks like........a pic would be nice. As a general rule, fails to feed are usually an ammo or magazine problem.

How many mags do you have for the P229, are they SIG/MecGar mags?
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