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Old February 27, 2023, 11:27 AM   #26
FrankenMauser
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I've done a lot of stupid reloading experimentation. I think .44 Mag is the best option for "snake shot". The CCI/Speer shot capsule loads are fine for snakes at close range (close enough to guarantee a good hit, but far enough away to still be safe from ricochet or a strike by the snake).

You might could talk me into settling for .38/.357 with capsules, if only to be used for snakes.

Quote:
Equal what?
Even a 2.5" .410 carries 1/2 ounce of shot and a 3" .410 has 3/4oz.
Ive never seen a .45 Colt that comes close to that.
I load modified .30-40 Krag and .303 British cases with 1/2 oz of shot for .44 Mag.
Job done with any .44 Mag revolver. No need for a rifle or massive blunderbuss like a Judge/Governor.

They may not be an attractive option to everyone, but they work much better than CCI/Speer capsule loads and toss just as much lead as a 2.5" .410.



Both of those case heads facing the camera are from the same lot of brass and were thinned to the same thickness. Remington quality at its finest.



No, the bottleneck is not an issue.
No, over-shot cards don't really help. They tend to blow the pattern even worse than rifling does naturally. They also don't stand up to handling as well as 4-6 coats of nail polish (which is primarily nitrocellulose and the residue adhered to the case typically burns off when fired).

.30-30 forms a usable parent for doing this for .41 Mag, but it makes a pretty ugly cartridge.
.444 Marlin can be used for .45 Colt, but the case taper makes your nitro card well under bore size -- more so than the other options mentioned.
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Old February 27, 2023, 12:54 PM   #27
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Equal what?
Even a 2.5" .410 carries 1/2 ounce of shot and a 3" .410 has 3/4oz.
Ive never seen a .45 Colt that comes close to that.
Equal a .410 load. Piece of cake.

I have a .41 Mag load that is 5/8 ounce and a .45 Colt load that is 3/4 ounce.
How are you loading 3/4 ounce of snake shot in a .45 Colt case?
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Old February 27, 2023, 01:18 PM   #28
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How are you loading 3/4 ounce of snake shot in a .45 Colt case?
.022" wall thickness tube. Drop in powder, a shot card then about 120 grains of #12 shot, slip in the tube to OAL of 1.60". Fill tube to top, tap it down, top it off and then 4 layers of fingernail polish.
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Old February 27, 2023, 01:31 PM   #29
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.30-30 forms a usable parent for doing this for .41 Mag, but it makes a pretty ugly cartridge.
Darn it, I might have to try this. I had been using .414 SuperMag cases that I basically sized down the last 0.35" to .400 OD with a 10mm die and lots of lube.
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Old February 27, 2023, 11:43 PM   #30
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Fire-forming will be required the first time with .30-30, of course.
After 4-8 firings, depending on how hard you're pushing it, you'll need to size the 'neck' with a .40 S&W die.
I have to borrow my brother's .41 Mag die for my .44 'necks'.

Somewhere here, years ago, I explained my loads. But the important points to hit are:
I use a nitro card and fiber cushion wad because they did best in my testing.
Don't use fingernail polish, if you're cutting styrofoam egg carton wads. Toluene and acetone vapor from the fingernail polish can eat the wads.
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Old February 28, 2023, 09:55 AM   #31
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^Thanks! FrankenMauser
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Old February 28, 2023, 10:25 PM   #32
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wow!

Now THAT is interesting. The .303-44 Brit "Snake Smiter"

".....and men shall smite you, and you shall strike at their heel" Gen 3:15
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Old March 2, 2023, 09:40 AM   #33
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I want to get some 38 shot shells. I have had some in 22lr in a NAA and it was terribly disappointing. I have had good luck just using wadcutters in my 642 for the times I've needed them.
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Old March 2, 2023, 12:41 PM   #34
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One of my brothers was tasked with eliminating rodents and pigeons from storage sheds and barns for a previous job.
They provided .22 shot shells. They were ineffective enough that he eventually convinced the employer to let him use .22 BB cap ammo. He just had to watch for ricochets inside the buildings.
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Old March 3, 2023, 12:18 PM   #35
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I think .44 Mag is the best option for "snake shot".
I was just thinking that this could be the excuse I've been looking for to buy a CA .44 Spl Bulldog.
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Old March 4, 2023, 07:24 PM   #36
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I have a lot of experience “ not shooting snakes”. Everytime this comes up guys are shooting snakes at 25’ with shot loads. I hunted Rattlesnakes & Copperheads to sell hides. I can tell you that the snake you see is one you can avoid. Any shot load for handgun is only good on snakes at point blank range. They are useful to use at that range in buildings and such where you can’t use a bullet. Besides not having enough shot to throw a killing pattern they don’t have much velocity and pinwheel pattern.
There are several 410 single shot pistols on the market if expense is the issue, revolver if not.
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Old March 4, 2023, 10:14 PM   #37
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I have a lot of experience “ not shooting snakes”. Everytime this comes up guys are shooting snakes at 25’ with shot loads. I hunted Rattlesnakes & Copperheads to sell hides. I can tell you that the snake you see is one you can avoid. Any shot load for handgun is only good on snakes at point blank range. They are useful to use at that range in buildings and such where you can’t use a bullet. Besides not having enough shot to throw a killing pattern they don’t have much velocity and pinwheel pattern.
There are several 410 single shot pistols on the market if expense is the issue, revolver if not.
If you're talking about the Cobray/Leinad ones, yeah, they are cheap if they can be found. The prices on them have gone up, but there is a potential advantage to them as one I had barely had any rifling and by that I mean not the length of the rifling, I'm talking depth of the grooves. The grooves looked more like a faint shadow and if I had measured a slug it probably would have been less than .001 deep.

I assume it helps improve the shot patterns. I wouldn't know, I only ever shot 000 Buck from mine when I had it.

They're such cheap pistols that I could see people hand reaming the rifling out to tighten the patterns.
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Old March 5, 2023, 10:17 AM   #38
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the ammo is also important

Attached Images
File Type: jpg rodents.jpg (47.1 KB, 228 views)
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Old March 5, 2023, 02:48 PM   #39
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The above photo reminds me of another snake load I have for my .357 Bandit rifle [ 350 legend ] . The old TC Contender 357 mag shot loads had capsules like those . Loaded for my rifle , they will hand chamber for the first shot . So when pig hunting I can have a snake shot ready for the first shot , then regular ammo in the mag . Also it is wrong to say that snake shot in pistols does not work well or just up close . If I have a rattlesnake near my cabin and the dogs are around , I do not avoid that snake . If you load them right a 44 / 45 pistol is plenty deadly at 15 ft . As I stated before , I load 44 capsules in a 45 Colt with 6 or 4 shot . Just one of those big shots will kill a snake or brake it's neck . Also I do not have a " pinwheel " pattern as my load does not spin , and at 1000 fps it is not underpowered . So if you know how to do it right [ my way or the guys with cut down rifle cases ] pistols work fine .
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Old March 5, 2023, 09:25 PM   #40
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Reaming the rifling out of any handgun makes that gun an NFA weapon.
$200 making tax. Federal registration.
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Old March 6, 2023, 08:56 AM   #41
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I use .357 Mag brass: powder, thin cardboard circle (punched out of cardstock), #11 shot, gas cap.
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Old March 6, 2023, 01:26 PM   #42
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As I stated before , I load 44 capsules in a 45 Colt with 6 or 4 shot . Just one of those big shots will kill a snake or brake it's neck . Also I do not have a " pinwheel " pattern as my load does not spin , and at 1000 fps it is not underpowered
I am curious, how do you know your load does not spin? Perhaps it does spin, just not enough to cause the "pinwheel" or "donut" patterns??

Seems to me that if you're getting 1,000fps from a pistol then there must be a gas seal between at least some part of the projectile (shot capsule) and the bore.

I can see where it could be possible that between the fact that the shot capsule is plastic, and its contact with the rifling could be very small, no where near the amount of bearing surface that a bullet has, this could create less spin than a bullet gets. It's also possible that there's enough contact to create a gas seal but the rifling is "stripping through" the plastic of the capsule, and so, not imparting the normal amount of spin.

I think its likely that your shot load does get some spin from the rifling, but not enough to cause noticable issues at the ranges your using it.
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Old March 7, 2023, 04:21 PM   #43
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Could be ? All I know is when I went to that load It became a tight pattern . About a 6 inch circle at 10 feet . I am using a teflon pad behind the capsule , it seals and the capsule just rides the top of the lands . Since it worked so well and solved all my problems , I did not high speed film it to see just how .
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Old March 9, 2023, 07:54 AM   #44
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I've successfully used shot in a .38 on snakes (CCI capsules). IME it's effective to 8-10 feet. In your original post you expressed hope that shot loads from a .38 would be effective on larger predators that you didn't specify. IMO I wouldn't count on that.
I'll second that. My old beater 637 (loaded with two CCI shot shells up first) is the mowing and garden gun.
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Old March 9, 2023, 11:05 AM   #45
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I am curious, how do you know your load does not spin? Perhaps it does spin, just not enough to cause the "pinwheel" or "donut" patterns?
There might be some spin, but inside of about 25 feet, I can't see any evidence of it on the targets. I have used .357 capsules, but most of my better pistol shot loads don't utilize capsules.

I do know, from shooting birdshot 12g in rifled bores that the donut starts to show up at about 10 yards or so, which is further than I'd use pistol shot.
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Old March 9, 2023, 04:22 PM   #46
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Video on "rat shot" ballistic impacts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHSoX6uLw94
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Old March 10, 2023, 10:38 AM   #47
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I recommend the 357-snake shot or larger for snakes. The 22lr is for flys and such lol
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Old March 10, 2023, 12:06 PM   #48
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I recommend the 357-snake shot or larger for snakes. The 22lr is for flys and such lol


I use a Bug-A-Salt for Flys. But I think the .22LR stuff might be okay for Wasps. The BAS won't kill those little devils.
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Old March 12, 2023, 09:18 AM   #49
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Awhile back read an article in Handloading magazine by Venturino. In preparation for making some "snake" loads following his procedure, bought some #12 shot and 44 gas checks to use in 45 LC cases. If memory serves, his underwad was an upright gas check seated just over a mild load of fast powder, and his overwad was an upside down gas check lightly crimped over. Never actually tried this, and the #12 shot was difficult to find at the time. But apparently alot of #12 shot fits in a 45 LC case , which he used at extremely close range.
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Old March 12, 2023, 10:27 AM   #50
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Awhile back read an article in Handloading magazine by Venturino. In preparation for making some "snake" loads following his procedure, bought some #12 shot and 44 gas checks to use in 45 LC cases. If memory serves, his underwad was an upright gas check seated just over a mild load of fast powder, and his overwad was an upside down gas check lightly crimped over. Never actually tried this, and the #12 shot was difficult to find at the time. But apparently alot of #12 shot fits in a 45 LC case , which he used at extremely close range.
The gas checks to make those can be bought at Sage's, which I posted above. They also have shot. That is how I make most of my snake shot loads now. I've been using mostly #9, but I did try some #12 with #6 and it upped the payload a good bit. Just not sure it's necessary to use anything but 9 for actual snake shot.
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