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Old November 13, 2023, 09:48 PM   #1
Lurch37
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1911 Shooting Low and Left

I recently purchased a Girsan S10, a 1911 style in 10mm naturally. It has a 6 inch barrel and is not what I would call an expensive 1911. I believe it was under 600 at Sportsmans.

Good news first, which was, I ran 100 rounds of 180gr S&B FMJ through it with zero functioning problems.

My problem was I could not get it "zeroed" to my liking. It has a Boman type adjustable rear sight and a target type iron front sight. Both are blacked out. After the 100 rounds I am centered side to side but 2 to 4 inches low. This is with the rear sight cranked way to the right and up as far as it will go without fear of the elev. screw coming out.

I was shooting at 10 yards max so even though its a fist size group I need to be able to bring it up. I realize different ammo might help a little but I'm wondering what else I can do? Being a cheaper 1911, I don't want to dump a ton of money into it but, I'd still like it to be a more accurate handgun since it seems to be a great functioning one.

1. Drifting the rear sight to the right would center that part?
2. File the front sight down?
3. Replace the front sight with a shorter one?
4. Replace the rear sight?
5. Replace both sights?
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Old November 13, 2023, 09:57 PM   #2
5whiskey
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If you are shooting good groups and convinced it's not shooter error (fist sized consistency at 10 yards fairly convinces me), then yes it's time for adjustments. Honestly, if it's an inexpensive pistol not meant to be an heirloom piece... I would drift the rear sight, file down the front sight (slowly!), add a touch of super blue, and be done with it.

Shooting low is a better problem to have than shooting high. While I don't mind adjusting POA some, it gets annoying when a Colt '51 Navy replica shoots nearly 12" high at 25 yards. Good news is it's almost POA, POI at 100 yards. Bad news is a ball is usually flying a bit wild by that distance.
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Old November 14, 2023, 09:27 AM   #3
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Agree that there's no real need to spend; drift the rear so it's "on" without using up all the windage adjustment, and shorten the front.
Is the front sight mounted in a dovetail? Confirm that it is centered in the slide, as if it's not, you'll have to make windage adjustments at the rear for different distances.
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Old November 14, 2023, 09:53 AM   #4
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Most commercial 1911s are designed for standard .45 ACP at 25 yards. I doubt that Girsan has a different front sight just for a 6-inch, 10mm model, so the front sight height may not be calibrated for 10mm ammo at 10 yards.

The first thing I would do is try it at 25 yards and see if it shoots closer to point of aim. The second thing I would do is have another experienced shooter try it, and see if he has a similar point of impact.

How will you be using the pistol? If all your shooting will be at ten yards, then it makes sense to zero at ten yards, and judiciously filing down the front sight is the most straightforward way to do that.
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Old November 14, 2023, 01:14 PM   #5
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Third thing to do (or possibly first) is to shoot different ammo and at different distances.

All shots going low, left could be the sights, or it could be something else in the gun, or it could be the ammo, or the shooter or some combination of some or all of these factors.

Save permanent physical changes to the gun for the LAST thing you try.
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Old November 14, 2023, 02:30 PM   #6
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ammo

I am curious as to what bullet weight you are shooting. Ammo in 10mm comes in a variety of bullet weights. If you are shooting a light for caliber bullet (155-165 gr) switching to 180-200 gr slugs may raise your POI and solve your problem. If youi are already in that range of bullet weight, then adjustment as described is the course I would take.
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Old November 14, 2023, 10:10 PM   #7
Lurch37
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Quote:
I am curious as to what bullet weight you are shooting.
I was using a 180gr Truncated cartridge, made by Sellier & Bellot.

Tomorrow I will go out again and try some different ammo as I do have some other brands and even some 200gr stuff. I will also step back to the 25 yard line and see if I can get it on paper.

I have no pressing plans for it other than I thought it would be fun to be able to hit gongs at 50 yards, maybe even 75 yards or on the off chance I'd take it deer hunting in the future.
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Old November 15, 2023, 02:58 AM   #8
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Barrel link is too long
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Old November 15, 2023, 09:16 AM   #9
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I shoot all semi-auto pistols to low-left.

Found out I sub-consciously grip the pistol tighter as I pull the trigger.

Simple fix that has taken years to solve.

How bad a shot am I : I can't hit the side of a barn, even when I'm inside the barn.
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Old November 15, 2023, 11:06 AM   #10
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missed

I missed (as usual) in the OP the bullet weights and brand. I would try the 200 gr slugs, at 20 yds or so, and see what happens. Best of luck.
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Old November 15, 2023, 06:55 PM   #11
Lurch37
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I was able to go shooting today and ran 50 rounds of 180gr and 50 rounds of 200gr FMJ thru the gun. I did try at 25 yards but after 5 rounds I quit as they were more than a foot low.

I proceeded to fire 5 round strings and then apply a file to the front sight until I was getting hits slightly above and below the aiming point. My groups opened up some but I think I was rushing my shots in anticipation of seeing if the filing was doing any good. And I believe the heavy trigger was also causing some of the flyers and low shots. Hopefully the trigger will get better as I practice more in the days to come.

I will drift the rear sight to the right to get that all centered up and for now leave the front sight at it's present height. Thank you for your responses.
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Old November 16, 2023, 11:23 AM   #12
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Choosing a round, maybe the one round, so the adjustable sight will work as a fixed sight?

After determining the front sight is centered, adjust the rear leaf so it's centered in the sight body, then move the body left or right until you're "on" for windage.

Determine how many turns of elevation adjustment you have, set the rear about the middle of its vertical travel, then file the front to zero for elevation.
Your gun will be POA/POI, and you'll have windage and elevation adjustability.

I have a .200" tall front on my 5" 10mm, and the rear sight is cranked up fairly high for a 50yd zero, but it's not far off at 50 feet.
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Old November 16, 2023, 01:47 PM   #13
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From what the OP has posted, it is not clear to me if the problem is in the gun, or the shooter, and I am inclined to believe it is probably more the shooter than anything else.

There was no mention of how he is aligning the sights, or where his aiming point is (center hold? 6 o'clock hold??)

He admits to "rushing" his shots and has already gone to filing on the sight without determining for certain what the root cause of the problem is.
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Old November 16, 2023, 10:52 PM   #14
Lurch37
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Quote:
Determine how many turns of elevation adjustment you have, set the rear about the middle of its vertical travel, then file the front to zero for elevation.
Your gun will be POA/POI, and you'll have windage and elevation adjustability.
This is what I did before firing the 5 shot strings, and after each filing of the front sight I noticed the shots moving up slowly. The front sight is centered so no problem there. I will drift the rear sight so it's centered too.

Quote:
From what the OP has posted, it is not clear to me if the problem is in the gun, or the shooter, and I am inclined to believe it is probably more the shooter than anything else.

There was no mention of how he is aligning the sights, or where his aiming point is (center hold? 6 o'clock hold??)

He admits to "rushing" his shots and has already gone to filing on the sight without determining for certain what the root cause of the problem is.
Today 10:23 AM
Pretty sure I know the cause, and well on my way to fixing it. To criticize a person simply because he's not doing it your way, (filing the front sight lastly) seems wrong. I'm no expert shooter but feel fairly confident that I'm not the problem as you have determined. When I say I rushed my shots I was doing so because I was eager to see the results of my filing. I know my aiming point because I aim the same way every time with every handgun I shoot.

I asked a simple question about sights in my first post, knowing after 50 some years of shooting it wasn't me, and more than likely a rear sight issue.

Anyways, I thank you all for your responses.
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Old November 17, 2023, 09:16 PM   #15
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OP has been a member here since '06, so over 15 years. I have absolutely met shooters with that experience that I wouldn't tell to start mucking with their sights. He also reported fist sized groups at 10 yards. While not the epitome of expert handgun marksmanship, that is well consistent enough where I personally make sight adjustments.

I get it. It does happen. But it is quite rare that a shooter has issues with marksmanship fundamentals and consistenly puts all the round in the same place over several different range sessions. I stand by the OP he was merely fixing sights on a platform designed for a heavier, slower round than what he is shooting.
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