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#1 |
Member
Join Date: June 30, 2012
Location: cleveland
Posts: 21
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Weird Case Head Marks 9mm Staccato XC
First 1000 rounds through my new XC and finding these marks on EVERY spent case. I cannot figure out where its coming from.
I dont think its the slide picking up the round, since I can slingshot the slide on a dummy round and cannot replicate the mark, even with Dyekem on the brass. As well, a new round gets picked up from the slide with the round angled UP at the nose, down at the base. The slide breach face at moment of contact with the next round would be rounding over the rim, not the square flat contact seen. As well, the part of slide that DOES make contact picking up the round reaches almost to the primer pocket, wouldn't make this tiny 1/32" wide mark so close to the edge. The square face ejector is not a dimensional match either. It contacts at 4 O-Clock and would leave a square corner imprint not a line. Maybe the round is hitting the ejection port on the way out, but it is CONSISTENTLY marked and on every single round, not random as I would expect. Also there are NO errant brass marks on the black DLC finish (brass abrasions show bright on DLC). Can anybody verify what their Staccato spent casing heads look like? |
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#2 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 22, 2011
Posts: 12,382
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I can’t say I have noticed the brass from my C2 looking like that. You could always email Staccato.
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#3 |
Senior Member
Join Date: July 26, 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 1,753
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A photo of the slides face would help.
I will guess there is a cut out where the ejector comes thru the slide face and contacts the case head on ejection/firing? At the time of firing, maximm pressure, action closed, the void in the slide face is allowing brass too flow into it? Or could be a burr on the opening or soft brass? |
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#4 |
Senior Member
Join Date: October 25, 2001
Location: Alabama
Posts: 18,983
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Is that the orientation that they were in the gun, the whack mark is at the bottom as fired? If so, I can't visualize a contact in the gun.
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#5 |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 26, 2016
Posts: 1,621
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See this link, and post #3 by Intel6.
https://forums.brianenos.com/topic/2...ass-head-mark/ P.S. It's no big deal. Ignore it. |
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#6 |
Senior Member
Join Date: October 25, 2001
Location: Alabama
Posts: 18,983
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Right, it is sometimes called a "J cut". It should have been flat but as that Benos thread says, is actually quite common.
Reason I asked the orientation. The J cut is on the side, not the bottom. |
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#7 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 22, 2011
Posts: 3,776
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Hum...if i'm getting a step on a case, I want it from a stepped chamber and not some unexpected bad tooling.
It might be fine, but I'd ask them to fix since they charge really high prices. From a price point, I would call it not part of the spec, so an out of spec part they should correct. Might be minority here. I accept it ![]()
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#8 |
Staff
Join Date: March 11, 2006
Location: Upper US
Posts: 30,087
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Unless there is a mark on the brass in some way to consistently id the orientation in the chamber when fired, there's no way to know from the fired case you pick up off the ground exactly what position it was in when fired.
I have a SIG that leaves the little "drag mark" from the firing pin on the primer. Visual ID of cases fired in that gun is simple and obvious and the location of the mark is constant, so you can tell the "clock face" position of fired cases from that. I agree it is most likely a small "ledge" on the breechface that is marking your brass like that. IF it has no effect on function, ignore it. If it has an effect on your reloading the brass, that would be your problem, as the maker's responsibility is to make a gun that feeds, fires and ejects each round properly, ONCE. Most guns are fairly reloader friends, but some aren't and there are even some that mangle the fired brass. Many makers try to set things up so their guns do not overly damage fired brass, realizing that reloaders are customers too, and happy reloaders are happy customers and that is good for business. Other gun makers simply don't give a rip, their only concern about fired brass is that it ejects clear of the gun. The rest is on you, or me. To me, if that mark isn't interfering with anything, its cosmetic, and can be ignored.
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#9 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 22, 2011
Posts: 3,776
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I theory, couldn't an imperfect spec breech face affect lock up? or is that too insignificant?
I ask to learn.
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#10 |
Staff
Join Date: March 11, 2006
Location: Upper US
Posts: 30,087
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In theory it could, but it would depend on what was out of spec and how much it was, as to whether or not it actually would.
I'm thinking something that drastically wrong wouldn't get past factory QA/QC inspectors, but (fortunately rarely) sometimes things like that do.
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#11 |
Member
Join Date: June 30, 2012
Location: cleveland
Posts: 21
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Found It - Breech face J-cut
I could not see it until I cleaned the face, then pressed a clean case in there and the brass rubbed a gold mark highlighting the raised land. The J-Cut radius cutter didn't go deep enough to meet the previously machined breech face. Its probably raised by .001.
Wont happen on manual round cycling due to headspace clearance. Its marking only during firing when the brass is pushed onto the face under +32,000 psi. I would have seen this had I fired some with the same head stamp positioned the same orientation. Well Damn. Staccato will be fixing this minor QC miss. |
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#12 | |
Staff
Join Date: March 11, 2006
Location: Upper US
Posts: 30,087
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Quote:
You've spoken to them and they have said, "send it in" ?? The style, features, pricepoint of the gun and their advertising about it says to me "We are quality (buy our gun), so they should, and they ought to fix the minor QC miss. But until you deal with them, you never know. Just playing devil's advocate here, but I don't know anything about the company, other that what I just found on the web, and have no idea about their customer service quality. There have been a couple of "big name" pistols makers who have had "disagreeable" attitudes towards their customers in the past, so its possible a company I know nothing about might go that route. If they care about their customers, it will show. If they don't, that will show, too. Good Luck, and let us know how you get your issue resolved.
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#13 |
Member
Join Date: June 30, 2012
Location: cleveland
Posts: 21
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Resolved it myself - no prob
I used a fine jewelers file and cut it down to the width of the 1/16" offending raised land so as not to effect the remaining face and gently removed the raised land. Used dyekem, small stone, and a loupe to verify when it was flat and even. Finished the face with some fine stone stokes and its clean and flat with a sharp inside corner.
I Doubt Staccato would have done much different. Thanks for the help all! |
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#14 |
Senior Member
Join Date: October 25, 2001
Location: Alabama
Posts: 18,983
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Now shoot it and see if your cases are flat.
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#15 | |
Staff
Join Date: February 12, 2001
Location: DFW Area
Posts: 25,412
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Quote:
My guess is that they would have told you that it's a non-issue and just to keep shooting the gun.
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#16 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: April 28, 2013
Posts: 3,417
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Quote:
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#17 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: August 26, 2008
Location: In the valley above the plain
Posts: 13,682
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Quote:
It is happening when the slide closes.
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#18 |
Senior Member
Join Date: September 12, 2002
Location: Twin Cities, MN
Posts: 5,384
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Congratulations on having a Staccato.
It's the main gun best-selling author John Sandford has chosen for his character Letty Davenport in his latest series of books. Letty of course uses the gun to good effect in the books. Here's the first two of the series in case you're interested. The Investigator https://www.amazon.com/Investigator-...ps%2C86&sr=8-1 Dark Angel https://www.amazon.com/Dark-Angel-Jo...ps%2C92&sr=8-1 I liked them but then I like everything John Sandford (aka John Camp) writes. With the latest Letty book, Dark Angel, Sandford is including a lot more gun-talk than he has in previous books which seems to be irritating some of his fans. Good for you for fixing the problem yourself but it would have been nice to know what Staccato would have done about it since they bill themselves as being a very high end manufacturer. |
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#19 |
Member
Join Date: June 30, 2012
Location: cleveland
Posts: 21
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The double marks were from reloading and re-firing the same case.
They would not get marked when dropping the slide. Only during firing do the case heads press into the breach hard enough to get such witness marks. NO more marking on newly fired brass. Resolved. Staccato apologized and offered to fix it, but just not worth the hassle of shipping. Yes I am happy with the XC. Its super accurate, easy to maintain, well finished. |
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case mark , staccato xc |
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