point shooting from the hip ? - Page 3

Dragger34 · September 5, 2013, 08:54 PM

I was trained to draw and shoot from the hip, but it's only utilized against a threat WITHIN 5 yrds away.

ClydeFrog · September 5, 2013, 09:07 PM

Match shooter Tartan Butler of Southern California has a www.youtube.com clip of shooting 6 targets with a Glock pistol with a recorded time of 1.98 seconds

.

He used the hip/CQB method.
If you constantly train & have the time/$$$ you can learn to use hip shooting but for most license holders/CCW license holders it's not a smart choice.

allaroundhunter · September 6, 2013, 07:39 AM

Taran* Butler ^

**Frank Ettin** · September 6, 2013, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClydeFrog

Match shooter Tartan Butler of Southern California has a www.youtube.com clip of shooting 6 targets with a Glock pistol with a recorded time of 1.98 seconds .

He used the hip/CQB method....

You must mean this one.

But here and here he seems to be using his sights and seems to be doing somewhat better.

Note how close the targets are when he's shooting without his sights compared to his shooting with his sights.

csmsss · September 6, 2013, 09:38 AM

Such displays seem impressive, until you consider that likely the shooter has been practicing repeatedly, from a consistent position, against those targets, also in a consistent position. Move the shooter and the targets and see how well he does.

**Frank Ettin** · September 6, 2013, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by csmsss

Such displays seem impressive, until you consider that likely the shooter has been practicing repeatedly, from a consistent position, against those targets, also in a consistent position. Move the shooter and the targets and see how well he does.

Good point. Look at the Taran Butler videos again, especially the one in which he's shooting the USPSA course of fire. Notice how quickly he can shoot, even with movement, from varying positions at targets at varying distance, when using his sights. Unsighted fire really has no great speed advantage.

Yes, it takes a lot of practice to shoot that quickly using one's sights. But it also takes a lot of practice to shoot well without the use of sights. Being able to shoot quickly with sights gives one a great deal more flexibility.

A primary use of shooting without sights, from the retention position, is to keep the gun out of reach of the target when the target is close.

MLeake · September 6, 2013, 11:38 AM

That is the point I have been making. It may not offer a speed advantage, but retention is another matter.

Nanuk · September 6, 2013, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Match shooter Tartan Butler of Southern California has a www.youtube.com clip of shooting 6 targets with a Glock pistol with a recorded time of 1.98 seconds .

He used the hip/CQB method.
If you constantly train & have the time/$$$ you can learn to use hip shooting but for most license holders/CCW license holders it's not a smart choice.

The guy is a master level shooter. There are maybe a dozen people in the world can shoot like that.

ClydeFrog · September 7, 2013, 07:33 PM

Thanks for the correction.

To my knowledge(articles about Butler himself), he only started target shooting in the late 1990s/early 2000s. He trains a lot & is a sponsored pistol shooter but he shows that with effort & proper technique almost anyone can be a great shooter.

CF

dayman · September 8, 2013, 06:05 AM

Having the benefit of my own back yard pistol range I've practiced drawing and shooting from the hip a bit. Not a lot, but IME it's not as hard as you'd think. I'd have a hard time hitting a bulls eye, but at 10 yards it's very doable to keep all my shots within a standard silhouette.
I shoot at steel, so I don't like to get much closer than 10yds, but I assume a 12" group at 10yds would translate into a 6" group at 5yds which - while it isn't "good" - isn't terrible. And that's a shooter of moderate ability and maybe 100 rounds of practice.

I don't have one, but a crimson trace might be a good investment to get an idea of where you're aiming without having to shoot. I'm not sure that the laserlyte targets would work all that well for this as they tend to be kind of small, where as a laser sight would show you where you were pointing even if you're way off.
I haven't tried anything more difficult that shooting at static targets, and I imagine it would be trickier, but again it's probably just going to come down to practice..
I don't know how much training would help though. I started noodling around with it after I watched the hip shooting "top shot" episode where the basics were explained, and then it was just a case of lots of practice.

On a pragmatic note since hip shooting tends to involve bending your wrist a lot you probably want to use a revolver, or - if you're using an auto - make sure you're not bending your wrist enough that the slide could come back and bite you.
I've mostly used a ruger 22/45 and not had an issue, but using, say a 1911, might require a little more care.

Sergeant · September 10, 2013, 11:53 PM

Even though most of my range time is well placed aimed shots; I have always practiced point shooting rapid fire at close range, as well as shooting with my non dominant hand. A hold over from my military days.

bt380 · September 11, 2013, 12:22 AM

Fast draw, at my age I could rip something in my shorts!

Derbel McDillet · September 11, 2013, 03:24 PM

You have a very good and passionate Point Shooting instructor in Arizona named Robin Brown. He teaches the Quick Kill method. AFAIK he doesn't run a shooting school but holds classes here and there whenever there's enough interest.

He frequents the Florida Concealed Carry Forum and goes by the name of "Brownie". You should look him up and send him a PM via that discussion board to learn when he's conducting his next class in your area.

Point shooting is as natural as pointing your index finger at a distance object. You don't have to think about it - you just do it intuitively.

Here's a link to one of his discussions - http://www.floridaconcealedcarry.com...-Technique-%A9

Some thoughts of his - http://www.pointshooting.com/1awhyqk.htm

A link to a Point Shooting Book he recommends - http://www.floridaconcealedcarry.com...recommendation

Good luck!

g.willikers · September 11, 2013, 04:30 PM

When you throw a baseball, do you aim down your arm?
When you drive your car, do you have to mount a sight on the hood?
(1958 Buicks not included).
It seems the people who criticize instinct or point shooting are the ones who don't know how.
It's just a skill, acquirable by anyone who's willing to put in the effort.
Sure, sighted shooting is bound to be better.
But the sights can't always be seen.
The guy who can carry on without being able to see them is gotta' be better off.

michiganbuck · September 11, 2013, 04:36 PM

We hosted a boy’s survival event for Boys and their Dads this year.

The event was an over night tent sleep over, a canoe race down a cat tail creek, shooting exploding targets with a scoped 223, tomahawk target throw, slingshot shoot and BB gun shoot and a hot dog campfire closing lunch.

We a had a lot of boys and dads (22 teams) some who were not shooters but with being a safe organized and fun event we introduced shooting to some people new to the activity.

They all enjoyed the event.

Buck

September 5, 2013, 08:54 PM	#51
Dragger34 Member Join Date: July 25, 2013 Location: Gainesville, FL Posts: 89	I was trained to draw and shoot from the hip, but it's only utilized against a threat WITHIN 5 yrds away. __________________ Always best to have and not need than to need and not have.

September 5, 2013, 09:07 PM	#52
ClydeFrog Junior member Join Date: May 1, 2010 Posts: 5,797	Tartan Butler... Match shooter Tartan Butler of Southern California has a www.youtube.com clip of shooting 6 targets with a Glock pistol with a recorded time of 1.98 seconds . He used the hip/CQB method. If you constantly train & have the time/$$$ you can learn to use hip shooting but for most license holders/CCW license holders it's not a smart choice.

September 6, 2013, 07:39 AM	#53
allaroundhunter Senior Member Join Date: May 6, 2012 Location: Southeast Texas Posts: 1,670	point shooting from the hip ? Taran* Butler ^

September 7, 2013, 07:33 PM	#59
ClydeFrog Junior member Join Date: May 1, 2010 Posts: 5,797	Butler; shooting.... Thanks for the correction. To my knowledge(articles about Butler himself), he only started target shooting in the late 1990s/early 2000s. He trains a lot & is a sponsored pistol shooter but he shows that with effort & proper technique almost anyone can be a great shooter. CF

September 8, 2013, 06:05 AM	#60
dayman Senior Member Join Date: April 18, 2011 Location: The Woods Posts: 1,197	Having the benefit of my own back yard pistol range I've practiced drawing and shooting from the hip a bit. Not a lot, but IME it's not as hard as you'd think. I'd have a hard time hitting a bulls eye, but at 10 yards it's very doable to keep all my shots within a standard silhouette. I shoot at steel, so I don't like to get much closer than 10yds, but I assume a 12" group at 10yds would translate into a 6" group at 5yds which - while it isn't "good" - isn't terrible. And that's a shooter of moderate ability and maybe 100 rounds of practice. I don't have one, but a crimson trace might be a good investment to get an idea of where you're aiming without having to shoot. I'm not sure that the laserlyte targets would work all that well for this as they tend to be kind of small, where as a laser sight would show you where you were pointing even if you're way off. I haven't tried anything more difficult that shooting at static targets, and I imagine it would be trickier, but again it's probably just going to come down to practice.. I don't know how much training would help though. I started noodling around with it after I watched the hip shooting "top shot" episode where the basics were explained, and then it was just a case of lots of practice. On a pragmatic note since hip shooting tends to involve bending your wrist a lot you probably want to use a revolver, or - if you're using an auto - make sure you're not bending your wrist enough that the slide could come back and bite you. I've mostly used a ruger 22/45 and not had an issue, but using, say a 1911, might require a little more care. __________________ si vis pacem para bellum Last edited by dayman; September 8, 2013 at 06:11 AM.

September 6, 2013, 09:38 AM	#55
csmsss Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Orange, TX Posts: 3,078	Such displays seem impressive, until you consider that likely the shooter has been practicing repeatedly, from a consistent position, against those targets, also in a consistent position. Move the shooter and the targets and see how well he does.

September 6, 2013, 11:38 AM	#57
MLeake Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2007 Location: Outside KC, MO Posts: 10,128	That is the point I have been making. It may not offer a speed advantage, but retention is another matter.

September 10, 2013, 11:53 PM	#61
Sergeant Senior Member Join Date: July 17, 2011 Posts: 124	Even though most of my range time is well placed aimed shots; I have always practiced point shooting rapid fire at close range, as well as shooting with my non dominant hand. A hold over from my military days.

September 11, 2013, 12:22 AM	#62
bt380 Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2012 Posts: 331	Fast draw, at my age I could rip something in my shorts!

September 11, 2013, 03:24 PM	#63
Derbel McDillet Junior member Join Date: September 6, 2013 Location: Kitsap County, Washington Posts: 316	You have a very good and passionate Point Shooting instructor in Arizona named Robin Brown. He teaches the Quick Kill method. AFAIK he doesn't run a shooting school but holds classes here and there whenever there's enough interest. He frequents the Florida Concealed Carry Forum and goes by the name of "Brownie". You should look him up and send him a PM via that discussion board to learn when he's conducting his next class in your area. Point shooting is as natural as pointing your index finger at a distance object. You don't have to think about it - you just do it intuitively. Here's a link to one of his discussions - http://www.floridaconcealedcarry.com...-Technique-%A9 Some thoughts of his - http://www.pointshooting.com/1awhyqk.htm A link to a Point Shooting Book he recommends - http://www.floridaconcealedcarry.com...recommendation Good luck! Last edited by Derbel McDillet; September 11, 2013 at 03:36 PM.

September 11, 2013, 04:30 PM	#64
g.willikers Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 10,442	When you throw a baseball, do you aim down your arm? When you drive your car, do you have to mount a sight on the hood? (1958 Buicks not included). It seems the people who criticize instinct or point shooting are the ones who don't know how. It's just a skill, acquirable by anyone who's willing to put in the effort. Sure, sighted shooting is bound to be better. But the sights can't always be seen. The guy who can carry on without being able to see them is gotta' be better off. __________________ Walt Kelly, alias Pogo, sez: “Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent.”

September 11, 2013, 04:36 PM	#65
michiganbuck Junior Member Join Date: February 6, 2013 Posts: 8	Good to initiate shooting events. We hosted a boy’s survival event for Boys and their Dads this year. The event was an over night tent sleep over, a canoe race down a cat tail creek, shooting exploding targets with a scoped 223, tomahawk target throw, slingshot shoot and BB gun shoot and a hot dog campfire closing lunch. We a had a lot of boys and dads (22 teams) some who were not shooters but with being a safe organized and fun event we introduced shooting to some people new to the activity. They all enjoyed the event. Buck