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Old June 14, 2019, 12:24 AM   #1
Geezerbiker
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Microsoft ammo?

I'm joking a bit. I found one odd case in my stash of .223 brass. The head stamp reads WIN NT 5.56mm...

Anybody seen this head stamp before?

Tony
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Old June 14, 2019, 01:16 AM   #2
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In .45 Auto, "NT" denotes "Non-Toxic." It uses primers that don't emit lead styphnate (sp?) into the atmosphere.
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Old June 14, 2019, 04:53 AM   #3
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It could be said it is used to open Windows in your enemies souls...just kidding.
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Old June 14, 2019, 09:31 AM   #4
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ROFLOL!!!

I bet the cycle rate is positively awful!!!!! But it'll fire slowly in 96% of firearms......
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Old June 14, 2019, 11:47 AM   #5
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Actually not entirely a joke. The Defense department's study of non-toxic primers¹ found ignition delays as high as 0.085 seconds could occur. That's longer than a number of full auto cycle times and would be added to cycle time.


¹ Non-toxic primers use DDNT instead of lead styphnate as the sensitizer. The combustion products produced by burning lead styphnate includes toxic water-soluble lead compounds.
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Old June 14, 2019, 12:33 PM   #6
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Unfortunately, though, I fear the industry is moving in that direction. I occasionally supplement my stash of brass by scrounging the discards pails at the range when I shoot. I'm mostly looking for .45 ACP, and I prefer Winchester (for no particular reason -- "Foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of feeble minds"). Recently, I've found that I have to be much more diligent about checking each case, either before or after tumbling, to weed out the NT stuff because, in .45 ACP, it makes a difference. Conventional ammo uses large pistol primers but WIN NT in .45 ACP uses small pistol primers.

That's not an issue with 5.56x45, but the fact that I'm encountering more of the stuff suggests that its use is becoming more prevalent.
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Old June 14, 2019, 01:39 PM   #7
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Federal has developed a new "green" primer with neither DDNT nor lead styphnate they call their Catalyst primer. So far, they are only talking about using it in factory NT ammo, but eventually I expect that will change. I know nothing of ignition delays with it, so it may not be an issue. We'll have to wait and see, but I wouldn't be surprised if that wasn't one of the shortcomings they sought to overcome. I think they may have had in mind the 5.56 NATO M855A1 green cartridge.
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Old June 14, 2019, 02:06 PM   #8
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Quote:
Recently, I've found that I have to be much more diligent about checking each case, either before or after tumbling, to weed out the NT stuff because, in .45 ACP, it makes a difference. Conventional ammo uses large pistol primers but WIN NT in .45 ACP uses small pistol primers.
Ya fix that by shooting a S&W 625 and pick up 6 at a time in a moon clip
Couldn't resist
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Old June 14, 2019, 02:19 PM   #9
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So I now know what the NT is for but what about the WIN? Would that be Winchester?

Tony
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Old June 14, 2019, 03:32 PM   #10
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"So I now know what the NT is for but what about the WIN? Would that be Winchester?"

YUP!
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Old June 14, 2019, 10:58 PM   #11
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I have some Unis Ginex Large Pistol Primers (made in Bosnia and Herzegovina, which is one country). Someone told me they are non-toxic. Their web-site says their primers are heavy metal free:

"all types of pistol and revolver ammunition, with SINOXIDE and EKO (heavy metal free) priming mixture"
http://www.ginex.com.ba/public_html/Product.htm

Now, I am offering a reward for any WIN95 or WINXP brass of $5 per piece. Software and product key not needed.

Quote:
Recently, I've found that I have to be much more diligent about checking each case, either before or after tumbling, to weed out the NT stuff because, in .45 ACP, it makes a difference. Conventional ammo uses large pistol primers but WIN NT in .45 ACP uses small pistol primers.
This is NOT TRUE. Not all Small Pistol Primer (SPP) 45 brass is NT. You need to separate out (and toss) the SPP 45 brass regardless of NT or not. I have found that almost all SPP 45 brass to be headstamps I did not want to reload like Blazer.
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Last edited by Unclenick; June 15, 2019 at 10:52 AM. Reason: same topic posted at close to the same time without any intermediate posts going up. Edit would have done it.
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Old June 15, 2019, 12:45 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco Califo
Quote:
Recently, I've found that I have to be much more diligent about checking each case, either before or after tumbling, to weed out the NT stuff because, in .45 ACP, it makes a difference. Conventional ammo uses large pistol primers but WIN NT in .45 ACP uses small pistol primers.
This is NOT TRUE. Not all Small Pistol Primer (SPP) 45 brass is NT. You need to separate out (and toss) the SPP 45 brass regardless of NT or not. I have found that almost all SPP 45 brass to be headstamps I did not want to reload like Blazer.
Sorry, but what I wrote IS true. I didn't write that all SPP .45 brass is NT. I had previously stated that I collect Winchester brass. In .45 ACP, Winchester brass with a small pistol primer is NT, and is so marked on the headstamp.

I don't deal with Blazer brass.
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Old June 15, 2019, 03:11 AM   #13
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I haven't shot my M1911 enough lately to need to get new brass and where I shoot nobody leaves anything useful behind.

I don't know where I came across this one .223 Win NT case but I might keep it around for the humor factor.

I worked in computer IT for several years before returning to the bike biz and Win NT on a cartridge case is down right funny to me. For those not in the know, WinNT is the directory (folder for people with less years around computers) where the install files are stored on the CD...

Tony
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Old June 15, 2019, 07:37 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco Califo View Post

Now, I am offering a reward for any WIN95 or WINXP brass of $5 per piece. Software and product key not needed.
LOL! I don't know - I prefer WIN 98SE over 95 or XP But then I was supporting 64 call centers at the time too.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco Califo View Post
I have found that almost all SPP 45 brass to be headstamps I did not want to reload like Blazer.
Yup - I find SSP 45 ACP in Speer, Federal, and Blazer. I sort it for trade stock.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg SSP_45_ACP.jpg (90.3 KB, 14 views)

Last edited by Unclenick; June 15, 2019 at 10:53 AM. Reason: same topic posted at close to the same time without any intermediate posts going up. Edit would have done it.
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Old June 15, 2019, 11:23 AM   #15
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.45 ACP NT brass used large pistol primers when it first came out. The problem was the DDNT used has higher brisance (suddenness of explosion) than lead styphnate and made enough gas so quickly in a large pistol primer that it could back the primer out hard enough to flatten and pierce pistol primer cups. To solve that, they had to drill the flash holes out to a larger size. Later they just switched to small pistol primers because they make less gas and the diameter of a standard flash hole is large enough in proportion to the narrow diameter to vent the gas better, and the narrower SPP cup is more rigid than an LPP cup the same thickness. Today, all you see are the SPP DDNT pistol primers, but you still find the old large flash hole NT cases on occasion.

More recently, as with the Federal Catalyst primers I mentioned, non-DDNT lead-free formulations are appearing. Perhaps the Sinoxid primers are among them. One of the problems with DDNT, in addition to the ignition delays, is moisture deterioration. There is a concern they won't have a great shelf life, though I believe this has been improved.

Here's a rundown of what the DOD found.
Here's the DOD-funded study.

Since the Sinoxid primer was the first to use lead styphnate, it is interesting to hear they are going lead-free. They will need to have an MSDS available and it may reveal what they are using. The article I linked to about the Federal Catalyst primer explains most of its ingredients, though a proprietary sensitizing mix is involved. What is fascinating is Federal is convinced it will ignite powder with the reliability of a magnum primer while producing the combustion consistency of a weak primer. It should add up to lower velocity SD's for all.
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Old Yesterday, 04:15 AM   #16
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Windows brass would never make it to my guns. They can't even open my email when I need to, why would I trust my life with it? The squirrels here get pretty violent.
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